@Fransexy

Ok, I get your point about being incomplete now. True, it was lacking on day one, but it made up for it with an interface that blew everything else out of the water. True, Android, WebOS and others have caught up since, but it was quite unique as a phone.

Just like happens here alot, people tell you to think big about the Amiga, but when pushed can't offer a single unique feature or advantage to back that up, so just repeat the same stuff about "being ambitious"

@Frek

Quote:

Frek wrote: @Varthall Instead consider it a hobby, that's where it belongs today. Comparisions to windows/macos x/linux. different processors etc are just pointless. Just like it's pointless comparing Windows 3.11 to Windows 7; Trust me 3.11 is lightening fast on todays computers :)

And that's what I believe the only positive thing you could find about Win 3.11, any other feature it has is just limited, slow or outdated. On the other hand, I use WinXP every day at office and I can't think right now of any important feature that I'd miss on OS4. Well, the search function is nice on XP, it lets you have all the files you need in a single window and make operations on them; another thing is security, but that luckily is not a problem on OS4 (yet) due to its obscurity. What I miss sometimes is some particular application or utility, or support for a couple of USB peripheral I have at home, but that's not the OS' fault, but rather the availability of software. I do *miss* some things on WinXP that are implemented on OS4: I'd love it to have an easier OS file structure, a better shell, a system default RAM disk, no software that can't be removed as the installer gets stuck, no system slowdowns when a lot of programs are installed, etc.

Quote:

I hope you understand my view, my intention is not to kill any hope, but to enlighten you that the time for hope was lost along time ago.

Which means that any hope should be killed :P Well, I believe that everyone has the right to have its tastes and preferences on any thing, included computing. That said, when something is being developed and has some potential, I think it's a good thing to hope that thing will continue to go the same way. IMHO what nobody should do though is to *have expectations*, this community and the market is too small to justify any expectation, too many risks are in the game.

Quote:

As I said in a previous post, there simply isn't a software base to support an amigaos derative to be a mainstream OS; and as long as there isn't there wont be any userbase either.

That's true, but that's not the OS' fault, as without an available and developed OS you would have 0 possibilities to grow the software base.

Varthall

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AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram

@-pekr-

Apple is not the new Amiga!! The Amiga was designed as a scaleable computer for the masses. Apple has always charged a premium and marketed to professional/high disposable income users! That is why I always buy second hand Mac equipment - APPLE CHARGE THE EARTH & NOW THEY SELLING INTEL PC TAT FOR A 20% PREMIUM THAT OTHER PC VENDORS CHARGE!!!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@xispo

Quote:

xispo wrote: @Frek Quote: My point is, I don't think it's realistic to expect the Amiga to raise again, it lost it's chance. Exactly, and I think the only legitimate way to look at the Amiga platform is from the nostalgia retrospective viewpoint. If people want to get ambitious, they'll need to scrap the entire Amiga legacy thing and create something completely new.

By scrapping all the Amiga unique features, wouldn't you just create a new Windows, or Linux clone?

Varthall

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AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram

@clebin

Quote:

Just like happens here alot, people tell you to think big about the Amiga, but when pushed can't offer a single unique feature or advantage to back that up, so just repeat the same stuff about "being ambitious"

Well is difficult to present unique features and avantages if people are so accostumed to bad implementations that they see as normal behavior.
Soon people will think that be slow is a feature; because their "modern" computers and OS are slow and if they sell in millions could not be wrong

_________________
No PowerPC, No Fun
Make Amiga Great Again

@Fransexy

Mac fans are not totally uncritical of Apple's stuff. Many people took a long time to adjust to OS X and were screaming about missing features for years. People were crying out for push notifications, cut &paste and MMS on the iPhone - Apple couldn't have been in any doubt about what users wanted.

FTFF, or "Fix the F***ing Finder" is a well-known acronym in the OS X world, but sadly Apple have taken a long time to listen to that one. While the first iMac was a success, they were forced to change the mouse design pretty quickly.

A number of Apple products have been canned due to lack of sales - The PowerMac G4 Cube for example. They've been down other blind alleys, caused an outcry and been forced to back-pedal. Most recently the 13" MacBook Pro got its Firewire port back - I'm sure Apple didn't anticipate the level of response they got about the msising Firewire port.

But Apple products are good. They are often better than the competition, which have their weaknesses too. This is what keeps people using Apple stuff. Yes, there are fanboys, but that's never a good thing IMO.

I can't believe you think the Amiga community doesn't have the same level of fanboyism. We're talking about an OS with many faults running on poor hardware, and yet some users seem to think we'll take over the world if we just put our minds to it. If other people don't challenge these foolish ideas, then the whole thing will become more like Alice In Wonderland than it is already and people will continue to laugh at us. Do you really want to be a subject of ridicule?

Chris

@Fransexy

Quote:

Fransexy wrote: @clebin Well is difficult to present unique features and avantages if people are so accostumed to bad implementations that they see as normal behavior. Soon people will think that be slow is a feature; because their "modern" computers and OS are slow and if they sell in millions could not be wrong

So where are these unique features and advantages then? You've not presented anything whatsoever.

Be honest, you're not just afraid of a discussion with people 'accostumed to bad implementations', you actually don't have an idea to present.

Chris

@clebin

Quote:

I can't believe you think the Amiga community doesn't have the same level of fanboyism. We're talking about an OS with many faults running on poor hardware, and yet some users seem to think we'll take over the world if we just put our minds to it

.

It´s stupid to think that we´ll take over the world, but is not stupid to think that we can grow and have opportunities in other niches


Quote:

people will continue to laugh at us. Do you really want to be a subject of ridicule? Chris

Do you meant like in a party where all people are drinking alcohol until fall to the ground and you have decided not drink any gout and they laugh at you saying you are not a "man"


Party simil used intentionally *hint OSNEWS *hint

_________________
No PowerPC, No Fun
Make Amiga Great Again

@Fransexy

Quote:

Fransexy wrote: @Frek And with this mentality it never will be more than a hobby.

It will never be more than a hobby. I don't know why some people can't still accept that, and why that's such a bad thing. Hobbies are good, healthy and fun. Just enjoy it. World domination is a childish aim.

Chris

@Fransexy

Quote:

It´s stupid to think that we´ll take over the world, but is not stupid to think that we can grow and have opportunities in other niches

Ok you answered this in the time it took me to write my last post!

So where are these unique features and advantages, these niches, these great new ideas? You haven't got any have you?

Quote:

Do you meant like in a party where all people are drinking alcohol until fall to the ground and you have decided not drink any gout and they laugh at you saying you are not a "man"

No, I mean not turning up at a party and not standing in the corner with your geek friend talking about trains all night, instead of chatting with people of both sexes, maybe dancing and generally engaging with the outside world!

Chris

*sigh*

Yet another thread which started as an innocent and was hijacked by the well-known trolls and later brought ad absurdum and completely off-topic with philosophical and esoteric nonsense..


That's amigaworld.net live and in colour nowadays unfortunately...


If I'd be a mod, I'd have closed this darn thread many pages ago.

Last edited by Cyborg on 23-Jul-2009 at 03:19 PM.

_________________
Regards, Cyborg.
AmigaOS4 development team member

"In the beginning was CAOS.."
-- Andy Finkel, 1988 (ViewPort article, Oct. 1993)

@clebin

Quote:

clebin wrote: @Fransexy Quote: Fransexy wrote: @clebin Well is difficult to present unique features and avantages if people are so accostumed to bad implementations that they see as normal behavior. Soon people will think that be slow is a feature; because their "modern" computers and OS are slow and if they sell in millions could not be wrong So where are these unique features and advantages then? You've not presented anything whatsoever. Be honest, you're not just afraid of a discussion with people 'accostumed to bad implementations', you actually don't have an idea to present. Chris

I´m was refering about click to front controversy on OSnews review about a window not pop up to front like on Windows.Thing that I miss all the time on Windows and even annoys me to the extent that there are times I go mad

Or people not seeing the usefulness of draggable screens, or the entire system of screens of the amiga

Or the fastest and greater feeling of control over the system

etc

Last edited by Fransexy on 23-Jul-2009 at 03:26 PM.

_________________
No PowerPC, No Fun
Make Amiga Great Again

@clebin

Quote:

Hobbies are good, healthy and fun. Just enjoy it.

In my circumstances it would not be healthy to spend £700 on a SAM Flex to just 'play' with and enjoy OS4.1!! It needs to be useful and do something that my Mac can't do!! My Amiga 4000T can and does provide both games/Scala and Deluxe Paint/Pagestream/Draw Studio etc. What the heck would I need Hollywood for or other OS4.1 programs for that matter? Firefox vs OWB is a no-brainer! Get OS4.1 on PPC Macs or I'll never even get to try OS4.1!! It really is a farce of huge proportions!!!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Fransexy

Yeah, I agree with you on those. I also challenged his point about snapshotting windows & icons, which worked well for me.

Unfortunatley, I think it will take a lot more, including new radical ideas and new features to break into an already extremely crowded marketplace. I was talking specifically about mobile, where these lovely old Amiga-isms don't apply, but it applies on the desktop too.

Chris

@BigD

Tell me about it! It's certainly a rich man's hobby! I also don't have the space in my flat for the Sam, monitor, keyboard, mouse, etc.... One day, maybe...

Chris

@clebin

Get it on a laptop Hyperion!!!! Port it to somehing we already own i.e. Mac Mini's, iBooks, PS3 etc!!! If we see that it's good we might buy a Sam to get it run in its natural environment!! I am a warm consumer - open to the idea of using OS4.1, but still there is no option for me beside shelling out £700 for the privilege of using OS4.1 with minimal software! Think again Hyperion and get you business model in order!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

You assume we have anything to do with their business model, if we do then i expect its a very small part of it because there is very little money in a community of about 2000 to base a business model on. I expect there are much bigger plans that we dont know about and the the community has been given the opportunity to buy into amiga os 4.x as a gift that covers its own costs. those who bought amiga ones and sams may really be acting as testers, making sure the OS works as it should until its developed far enough for the real business model to become viable. I dont mean this as in the community has been taken advantage of as it seems those developing the os have the same affections for it as the rest of us but it seems to me that the constant state of development must be leading somewhere bigger than this community as we are not a sustainable market to spent $2.5 million on as Hyperion claim to have done.

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@TheMaskedMuchacho

Quote:

we are not a sustainable market to spent $2.5 million on as Hyperion claim to have done.

Eyetech sank all the money they owned into the Amiga platform because they believed in the AmigaOne as an industrial computer! It ended in failure! The Amiga is a viable Netbook contender or lounge entertainment based computer but I can't see the right noises being made by Hyperion and I doubt they'll ever see the return on the $2.5 million!!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Arko

Quote:

AN d compared to Apple, if Steve Jobs intoduces iMix as new elektric mixer there would be hughe hype about it, free advertising on hundreds of WWW pages. Thousands of Mac fans would bought a overprced mixer bacause it is a Apple mixer.

Yes, Apple does an excellent job of packaging "complete products"and hype.

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"The system no longer works " -- Young Anakin Skywalker

@Fransexy

Quote:

True but we are discussing technical questions. we are betting what is the ambitious project and the Phone path is not as impossible technically spoken as lot of people said.

possible, but why Bother? Would be a waste of time and money IMHO.

_________________
"The system no longer works " -- Young Anakin Skywalker