@BigD
A cold boot on my 533mhz sam takes around 35 seconds. The main thing that takes time is post process like detecting of disks, cdrom and kickstart load. A warm reboot for me takes around 7 seconds for me but i tweaked my startup sequence a tiny bit.

@COBRA

Quote:

there were many things which 3.9 had that had to be rewritten from scratch in OS4, simply because Hyperion didn't get the sources.

I'm aware of this problem however, the reviewer states that the auto-update problem can be solved with third-party software. If this is indeed true why couldn't Hyperion buy/ask the author to use this code to implement the feature into OS4.1? It does not seem the sort of thing that would require extensive coding!

As to my comments about accelerated graphics; I stand corrected!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

I'm aware of this problem however, the reviewer states that the auto-update problem can be solved with third-party software. If this is indeed true why couldn't Hyperion buy/ask the author to use this code to implement the feature into OS4.1? It does not seem the sort of thing that would require extensive coding!

Probably because nobody complained about it so far, so they spend effort on resolving issues which users mostly complain about, such as the Warp3D "green" problems and others that were corrected with the last quickfix for instance. I don't even know what 3rd party software he is talking about.

Quote:

cv643d wrote: Check out http://os4depot.net/index.php?function=showfile&file=utility/workbench/autoupdatewb.lha If you run autoupdatewb then you never have to manually update a drawer when new files are added to a drawer.

_________________
RobTheNerd.com | InstallerGen | SMBMounter | Atoms-X

@cv643d

Quote:

There where some app on classic Amiga (was it power something) that enabled "Delete" button the classic Amiga hardware, it was great. I mean, why have a delete button if it can not be used?

I don't know what other app you were thinking of, but I use FKey (which is part of Workbench) to assign that key to a simple ARexx script. Actually, I use RAmiga+Delete, but that's my personal preference. The default shortcut for delete is RAmiga+D, by the way, but I rarely used it, so set up the other one.

_________________
RobTheNerd.com | InstallerGen | SMBMounter | Atoms-X

@all

* auto update of Workbench (=WB)
I guess everybody agrees its annoying that there's not auto drawer update in WB by default. But there's WBCtrl CLI tool to enable/disable WB features. Adding "WBCtrl DRAWERNOTIFICATION" into your User-startup will enable auto update feature hidden in WB. (Or do it "live" in Shell.) Warning: Internal update is much worse (it doesn't work perfectly) than using AutoupdateWB commodity ! So I'm using AutoupdateWB commodity instead of internal functionality because it works better. I don't know why AOS4 devs haven't made that internal implementation better. (I'm wondering that even long time Amigans don't know all features of their beloved OS. But I do remember that before AOS4.1 version people were mostly complaining that AOS4 doesn't look modern without semi transparent eyecandy effects like all Winblows Visva, MacOS X and Linux w/ Compiz. (Or was it me alone ? So AOS4 devs answered to the community implementing something that was the biggest worry in the community (AOS related discussion forums) back then.

* Boot times
My system boots in 25 secs from power button into fully loaded WB. (As comparison Ubuntu Linux and Winblows 7 RC takes at least a couple of minutes to boot on my 1500MHz machine. My A1 is 600MHz only. Some people are claiming sometimes that their Winblows boots in less time but I don't have any knowledge what they might have changed in the registry to achieve that. Same goes to Linux. I don't know if they have compiled their own kernel and so on... Such methods are out of the question to any newbies and other non-geeks.)

There's "AddNetinterfaces" line in Startup-sequence which waits network to come up before continuing booting. If you're using DHCP it takes time Amiga and your modem/router negotiating with each other. AOS4 devs have said they kept it that way so people don't start complaining when some network related apps don't work right after boot because network is not up yet. (Or something like that, don't remember exactly.) Adding "run >nil:" in front of "AddNetinterfaces" in Startup-sequence makes network startup stuff to run in parallel with the rest of the boot process which "speeds up" loading full WB. (I think eveybody knows this already expect some newbies who haven't followed these discussion forums lately.)

* ClickToFront
I'm using middle mouse button (single click) to bring windows to front. I know it'd be annoying sometimes if we didn't have lickToFront. (Nice typo

@AOS4 devs + all
Maybe it's possible to ask during OS installation from the user if he/she is an old Amiga user or Amiga newbie and change default OS behaviour/features by that.

@Thom Holwerda
What you said in your review is exactly that it's hard to accept alien cultures to us humans. It's a culture related thing. (One Mac fan, I knew a couple of years ago, had that idea too.) And I have learned that you can't judge an OS without using it daily basis at least a couple of months. More likely couple of years. And like you said you're BeOS fan and I guess you will stay BeOS/Haiku fan rest of your life probably. So we Amigans are also AOS fans all our lives. And why they have made some features before some other features into AOS, I guess they've been listening to their customer base.

Software development of/for Amiga was pretty much dead between mid -90's and mid -00's. Unfortunately the source code of the most of commercial apps is not available so it's impossible to continue work of any such app. Software base is same s**t on any niche platform.

@all
We will need a lot of ex-Amigans to come back to the platform before we will have enough developer power (and money from customers) to be able to please any bigger audience IMHO.

PS. I can comment snapshotting icons and windows but I'm running out of time.

Last edited by Tomppeli on 16-Jul-2009 at 02:51 PM.
Last edited by Tomppeli on 16-Jul-2009 at 02:49 PM.
Last edited by Tomppeli on 16-Jul-2009 at 02:40 PM.
Last edited by Tomppeli on 16-Jul-2009 at 02:37 PM.

_________________
Rock lobster bit me. My Workbench has always preferences. X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE
"Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray

@Tomppeli

Quote:

I'm using middle mouse button (single click) to bring windows to front. I know it'd be annoying sometimes if we didn't have lickToFront.

Hehe, I'm using the same :) I used to have a 3-button mouse on my old classic Amiga too, and I always configured the middle mouse button to bring windows to front, it's even better than double-click-to-front IMHO, and you can configure the ClickToFront commodity that way.

@Daedalus

I should have known that Ramiga + D was delete, how have I missed that for 19 years?

I firmly believe AmigaOS 4.*+ can blow OSX to hell with some further polish (especially in usability area). But asking users to learn Arexx just to enable buttons is a bit hardcore IMHO.

@Tomppeli

Quote:

source code of the most of commercial apps is not available so it's impossible to continue work of any such app. Software base is same s**t on any niche platform.

Understood, we're lucky to have any software considering no one has the sources who wants to continue Amiga development of the majority of our favourite 'classic' software! The fact that the reviewer had to use AmigaWriter a program last updated in 2000 to demonstrate an Amiga Word Processor says it all! ;_) For all it's abilities as an RTF exporter/Doc file importer it is not an modern Word Processor and cannot compete with Word or Pages!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Thread

What's the deal with the Sam STILL not shipping with back plates? It reallly is unforgiveable after all this time. Where's 'The Daddy' case? Once that is ready and I'm assured a back plate we can seriously start considering the Sam as a complete bundle with OS4.1. At the moment it's still got the feel of a buggy developer system!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Tomppeli

Quote:

And like you said you're BeOS fan and I guess you will stay BeOS/Haiku fan rest of your life probably.

No, he is not, he is a true fan of Windows 7 since last Xmas, he even says he hates all OSes, except BeOS.

See here.

Last edited by K-L on 16-Jul-2009 at 03:45 PM.

_________________
PowerMac G5 2,7Ghz - 2GB - Radeon 9650 - MorphOS 3.14
AmigaONE X1000, 2GB, Sapphire Radeon HD 7700
FPGA Replay + DB 68060 at 85Mhz

@BigD

Quote:

The fact that the reviewer had to use AmigaWriter a program last updated in 2000 to demonstrate an Amiga Word Processor says it all! ;_)

Apparently he couldn't be bothered installing AmiCygnix to try AbiWord and Gnumeric for word-processing and spreadsheet (and GAIM for instant messaging), which is a shame because AmiCygnix is such a breeze to install, it's very easy and professional, and despite the fact that it has no hardware acceleration, it's perfectly usable, I used it to make my CV for instance, no problem.

Last edited by COBRA on 16-Jul-2009 at 03:49 PM.

@BigD

I see a business opurtunity here. How many sams sold? 500?

Is there a backplate compatible with the sam to say 80%

Order 500 of those from Taiwan, set up a website www.sambackplates.com bundle them with an OS4 sticker/t-shirt/whatever to justify price a bit for 25 euro = profit.

@cv643d

Quote:

I see a business opurtunity here.

$$$

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Hans
Quote:

That's what "Snapshot window" is for, but yes, being able to set that as the default behaviour would be nice.

I think such a change should be an option; as should other major changes to the user interface. I've never owned a Win or Linux PC and hate using either OS when I'm forced to. I installed AmiCygnix (which I assume mimics Linux behavior) and opened all the programs, moved icons & windows and quit. When I restarted it the next day I was confronted with a jumble of windows & icons that I could not figure out how to return to their default positions. I started Snoopy to see what was happening and was appalled to see that almost ever action I made on the AmiCygnix screen was being written to disk. Every time I moved a window or icon it produced a stream of position changes to disk. It's no wonder that other OS's need superfast CPU's just to perform reasonably. If that is the kind of behavior non-Amigans are looking for then I think that they should stick with their current systems. I don't want my window/icon sizes/positions to be saved automatically; I want to tell my computer when to save things. That's one reason I keep my SYS partiton write protected; nothing gets changed or saved without my approval.

_________________
X1000 with 2GB memory & OS4.1FE

@BigD
Quote:

What's the deal with the Sam STILL not shipping with back plates?

Would a single back plate configuration work with all the different cases that people might want to use? I doubt it. The only reason I could see for adding a back plate to my SAM Flex was to prevent the fan from sucking the air through the large gap next to it instead of pulling the air through the computer case. I just got an aluminum plate that was thin enough to cut with tin snips and fashoned my own back plate.

_________________
X1000 with 2GB memory & OS4.1FE

There used to be a patch for 3.x that added a couple of extra icons to (normal) windows on Workbench. You could then easily snapshot icons and switch between icon and list view. PowerWindows I think?

My preference would be for this sort of feature to be added to WB: there could be a few optional icons that users could switch on/off in the GUI prefs, assign Arexx scripts to etc.

_________________
Happiness is mandatory.
MindSpace: MindMaps and UML diagrams for OS4

We ran 5 Recursion Computer Fairs before hitting the exit condition

@Xenic
Quote:

Would a single back plate configuration work with all the different cases that people might want to use? I doubt it.

actually yes it would---unless you create a case from scratch. backplates fit a standard size hole. the configuration on the other hand is based on where the ports are on the board. if the ports won't match standard backplate configurations(ones included with cases) then acube should have included one that did.

_________________
Win•dows: n. A thirty-two bit extension and graphical shell to a sixteen-bit patch to an eight-bit operating system originally coded for a four-bit microprocessor which was written by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition.

@yoodoo2

There is also a difference between a completely vanilla system and a fully-configured one. Resellers should include as much useful additional software as possible/legal (eg Cygnix, commodities etc) with links to update sites etc. This is where the increased of AmiUpdate would come in handy.

Also, although there is a printed manual, it is incomplete for beginners or Amigans who haven't been around for a while. Perhaps a community effort could be established to create some additional docs/tutorials?

_________________
Happiness is mandatory.
MindSpace: MindMaps and UML diagrams for OS4

We ran 5 Recursion Computer Fairs before hitting the exit condition

@jkirk

Correct - if one buys a motherboard from Asus, Gigabyte, etc they always come with a backplate. That way motherboard manufacturers can arrange the ports the way it suits them best and people can still put them in any standard enclosure without messing up their airflow.