@AmigaHeretic

Quote:

AmigaHeretic wrote: @tomazkid Pretty good review and he brings up some interesting and very good points. One thing though: Quote: In addition to the problems above, the file manager also doesn't auto-update its contents; you need to manually update a folder if you downloaded something new into it. Not exactly sure what he means about that, but if he means if you drag something in a window it doesn't 're-alphabetize'/sort the window, well, that's one of the things I love about Workbench. When I drag something to a Windows it 'stays' right where I drop it... forever! Next time I go to the Window I know right where it is. It's where I put it. :)

No, what he means is, if you download a file to a drawer whilst viewing that drawer in Workbench, the downloaded file doesn't automatically appear in the window. IIRC, there may be a commodity which fixes this, but I can't remember the details. Regardless, auto-updating the file listing should be default behaviour. Not having a file listing auto-update when something is changed is annoying.

Hans

Last edited by Hans on 15-Jul-2009 at 05:31 AM.
Last edited by Hans on 15-Jul-2009 at 05:30 AM.

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@Hans

Quote:

Hans wrote: No, what he means is, if you download a file to a drawer whilst viewing that drawer in Workbench, the downloaded file doesn't automatically appear in the window. IIRC, there may be a commodity which fixes this, but I can't remember the details. Regardless, auto-updating the file listing should be default behaviour. Not having a file listing auto-update when something is changed is annoying. Hans

AH, yeah, that's true. I guess I run into this with ram disk a lot. Downloading things into there and you have to close and reopen the Window or refresh. That would nice if it auto updated. I was thinking he meant, copy a drawer called My Games and it should reorganize it. Makes sense what you are saying now.

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I thought that was a pretty good review, I use my OS4 amiga once every few months and I usually bump into the same sort of issues. I think that whoever's in charge of Workbench at Hyperion should read the review and consider it carefully when deciding what the "out of the box" settings should be for the next release of OS4. Things like icon autoupdate and click to front really should be on by default. Ironic that way back when, the amiga was the only computer that would automatically add an icon to the desktop when a disk was inserted - now, it's probably the only one that doesn't automatically refresh icons after a file copy.

Something else that needs to be installed by default is the audio mixer. I remember the first time I installed OS4 it took me ages to figure out that I needed to copy the mixer from the contrib drawer in the CD and add it to the user-startup script, else I'd get no sound. I know that Linux has valuable lessons to teach, but requiring one to edit startup files to enable something as basic as sound is not one of them (I don't know if this has been fixed in the meantime; if it has, good! )

And I thought, file display not being updated after copying stuff was something not yet implemented in AROS (the only NG Amiga experience I have at the moment).

Seeing this is what seems to be a default behaviour on Amigalike OSes shocks me a little bit.

This is frekking 2009, guys...

Pretty good review indeed.

But we have all known for severall years now that Workbench really needs to be rewritten. Half of the quirks he mentions I have problems with myself.

It is one of the most important parts of OS 4 that has to be changed.

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@CodeSmith

Quote:

I think that whoever's in charge of Workbench at Hyperion should read the review and consider it carefully when deciding what the "out of the box" settings should be for the next release of OS4.

As I said, it is definitely food for thought. Throughout the years, we Amigans got used to our OS's little quirks and consider certain things "normal", while in fact they were normal 15 years ago and the world has moved on. Non-Amigans like Thom Holwerda can help us see things in a different light, and I am really grateful for what he has written.

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@Hans

Quote:

Dragging "ClickToFront" into WBStartup is one of the first things that I do when I install Amiga OS. I agree that this should be the default behaviour.

And no commodity should be needed for that

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Good one.

The most interesting quote for me is:
Quote:

You get transparency effects when dragging windows around, which doesn't seem like a particularly useful feature to me. For an operating system that lacks a few key applications, it doesn't seem like wisdom to me to focus on something as superficial as a few fancy effects.

Doesnt matter if we talk about missing apllications or quirks that should get fixed loong time ago. Getting the OS looks nicer is not as much important to me when some basic functionality (in terms of year 2009) is still missing.

@ExiE

The thing is, if someone with free time on their hands and the required know-how wants to work on a feature like transparency, would you really say "nah, we don't want that now, as we're missing some other key features"?

I don't think Hyperion is in a position where they can really dictate what comes in which order, as some features might depend on key people who are already busy doing more important stuff, and other features can be implemented by anyone.

And as the Friedens have stated several times, Workbench is high up on the list of things that needs rewriting.

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@ExiE

Quote:

ExiE wrote: Good one. The most interesting quote for me is: Quote: You get transparency effects when dragging windows around, which doesn't seem like a particularly useful feature to me. For an operating system that lacks a few key applications, it doesn't seem like wisdom to me to focus on something as superficial as a few fancy effects. Doesnt matter if we talk about missing apllications or quirks that should get fixed loong time ago. Getting the OS looks nicer is not as much important to me when some basic functionality (in terms of year 2009) is still missing.

Maybe, but the hardware compositing that underlies this effect is essential to moving the platform forward. Proper alpha channel based blending is used all over the place these days. Added to that, I find myself using window transparency to help find things.

Hans

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@AmigaHeretic

Check out http://os4depot.net/index.php?function=showfile&file=utility/workbench/autoupdatewb.lha

If you run autoupdatewb then you never have to manually update a drawer when new files are added to a drawer.

Another thing I just remembered, the Delete button on the keyboard should be linked to delete by default, so if you select a file and press "Delete" button you should be able to delete the file.

There where some app on classic Amiga (was it power something) that enabled "Delete" button the classic Amiga hardware, it was great. I mean, why have a delete button if it can not be used?

@Yogi27

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Yogi27 wrote: Hi Everyone! As a man who works on Pcs and Macs, but owns AmigaOnes at home and soon the Sam, in my opinion, windows and mac os x is too automated for my taste. I always feel like I do not have control over much in those operating systems, definitley Os X. Since this reviewer is used to less control over his operating system, he sees workbench and AmigaOS as outdated, not as more control over your computer. That control over the os is the genius behind AmigaOS, that is lacking in a lot of other operating systems. For example, the directory structure in AmigaOS makes sense, Libs for libraries, etc. Look at the windows directory structure (OMG!), a mess in my opinion. I don't believe that making Amiga OS like the other operating systems is going to attract more users. He is right in that we need to update our software library ASAP. Also, get the price of the machines down, and set it up where a user can plug it in and go. He talked about the boot time, and he is right! We really need to get rid of Uboot the way it currently is and put kickstart and the hardware boot strap back into the flash rom. I know from my own personal experience with the Amiga, part of the fun is exploring all the control you have in the operating system as you learn more about it from using it over time. That is what made me and Amiga user in the first place. I remember learning about Workbench V1.3 back in the day on my Amiga 500. I originally bought it to play games, but ended up learning so much more about it over time. I think that can still hold true today. Just my opinion! Yogi

If people want another Windows/linux/MacOS clone there are tons of them out there.My joke about people in darkess is certainly true in this case.People don´t understand the usability of windows not poping up to front when you click on it, Screens....... and other features but when you use them you really think that the other "modern?" operating systems are one step back insteand of progress in usability

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@Fransexy

Quote:

Fransexy wrote: @Yogi27 If people want another Windows/linux/MacOS clone there are tons of them out there.My joke about people in darkess is certainly true in this case.People don´t understand the usability of windows not poping up to front when you click on it, Screens....... and other features but when you use them you really think that the other "modern?" operating systems are one step back insteand of progress in usability

it is not so much that they want it to act like windows. it is just that for a new user these are valid concerns. i believe that most all his points should be looked into to be changed. with a "classic" mode built in for changing the behavior to the classic defaults. this way you can choose your os feel.

Last edited by jkirk on 15-Jul-2009 at 11:21 AM.

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@tomazkid

Quote:

AmigaOS 4.1 just didn't let me in. It's like being invited by a friend to a party where you don't know any of the people there. Your friend promises to remain by your side and ease you into the group, but once you arrive, your friend wanders off into the crowd, leaving you by the sidelines. And the group of people have known each other for 30 years. And they're catching up to 30 years of shared history. And they really aren't interested in newcomers - this is a reunion, not a party. AmigaOS 4.1 seems to cater too much to the past, instead of looking forward. The developers are catering to the ever shrinking group of classic Amiga users, instead of trying to capitalise on the strengths of the platform to try and bring in new people like myself. I simply don't get the idea that the developers are trying to advance the platform.

This is the absolute truth and should be considered by Hyperion....
Time for up to date improvements and new users...
Hopefully the "secret project" goes in that direction!

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On AROS, I immediately set ClicktoFront to load at starttime, and that was with one click, because I was used to it from my experiences with other OSes. I really had no idea what the ability to keep active windows in the back was for.

The moment I had multi-window/document-apps running, I suddenly realized why it is a good idea to manage the z-order of windows yourself.

I still use click2Front, but with 2 clicks. In my opinion that the perfect way for managing windows on Amiga OS Variants, and should be made standard.

@Fransexy

Quote:

If people want another Windows/linux/MacOS clone there are tons of them out there.

Nobody wants another clone, otherwise we wouldn't be staying with AmigaOS The thing is that certain aspects of the OS behaviour are for sure relics of the past. They are small things but can a) drive a newcomer nuts (as the review has shown), and b) become a nuisance even for Amiga die-hards like myself.

I maintain that some of the things mentioned in Thom's review should be standard or at least optional behaviour. There is no OS ideology behind a request to have, say, automatic window updating. And no, your AmigaOS will not become Windows if the user gets an option to have icons sorted upon opening a drawer

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@eXec

Quote:

eXec wrote: @tomazkid Quote: AmigaOS 4.1 just didn't let me in. It's like being invited by a friend to a party where you don't know any of the people there. Your friend promises to remain by your side and ease you into the group, but once you arrive, your friend wanders off into the crowd, leaving you by the sidelines. And the group of people have known each other for 30 years. And they're catching up to 30 years of shared history. And they really aren't interested in newcomers - this is a reunion, not a party. AmigaOS 4.1 seems to cater too much to the past, instead of looking forward. The developers are catering to the ever shrinking group of classic Amiga users, instead of trying to capitalise on the strengths of the platform to try and bring in new people like myself. I simply don't get the idea that the developers are trying to advance the platform. This is the absolute truth and should be considered by Hyperion.... Time for up to date improvements and new users... Hopefully the "secret project" goes in that direction!

It´s ironic that if the "party" were like any other "party" then he could not say this:


Quote:

Rests me to say that despite my complaints, it's been a very fun ride, and exploring the Amiga has broadened my horizon in a positive way. I feel privileged that I am in the position to test soft and hardware like this, for free, and I would like to thank ACube for giving me the opportunity to do so. They have been very helpful during the entire process, and it's clear that the small Italian company really knows what it's doing. They have a solid hardware line up, and as a geek, I am very, very grateful that companies like this still exist to cater to the niches of the geek world. Without companies like ACube, we geeks would live in a far bleaker world. Remember that.

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@Hans

Quote:

Hans wrote: @cv643d Quote: cv643d wrote: Another thing bothering me, it would be nice if you could set drawers to always show hidden files as default, even if a drawer had no .info file. That's what "Snapshot window" is for, but yes, being able to set that as the default behaviour would be nice.

Just save it to envarc:sys/def_drawer.info and you're done.
All of the "issues" in this review were solved years ago on OS3.x already.

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@Fransexy

I think it`s just greetings to Acube for the provided Aone system...

But the reality is that we need new people and new
direction in the whole "new age Amiga" strategy...

that`s it..

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@kolla

But it's not obvious how to 'fix' them for a user not used to an Amiga-esq OS.

@ "Please people, it is not so hard to make a few sentences to describe what the news is about."

Okey, a reviewer for the website OSnews.com, www.osnews.com has written a review of the software Operating System "Amiga OS 4.1" on the Hardware produced by Acube called the Sam. Some of you may have been aware that an OSnews writer was preparing this review of Amiga OS4.1 on the Sam.

Is that better?

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