@rigo

Quote:

which is only being thrown around by those that don't actually own one

I dont want to buy sam due to speed not because its ppc or else.

You are telling me to pay a lot of money to drive slow car?

i still got the love for our beloved Amiga but not slow HW..

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

JAVA for AROS = NO FLASH for AROS = NO FIREFOX for AROS = NO OpenOffice for AROS = NO

well if they do get them than i will be an ARos user so dont give me all that.


Quote:

Abiword

its not an OpenOffice

Quote:

Flash

you mean sdl based mplayer and crashes a lot

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@serk118

Quote:

its not an OpenOffice

Maybe its time you start learning how to program, or accept what you get.

Quote:

you mean sdl based mplayer and crashes a lot

if mplayer crashs then you have not configured the stack, if you don't know how to set the stack your not an Amigan, because this has always been an issue from day one on any Amiga program or shell tool.

and it does not need SDL, infackt it use Picasso96 overlay, and this is what makes it fast even on slow hardware.

you find flash on on Ibrowse page:
http://www.ibrowse-dev.net/download.php

mplayer is not the same as flash.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 19-Aug-2009 at 09:10 PM.

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@serk118

I'm not telling you to do anything, if I was it would certainly be more direct.

I'm simply pointing out the situation, and how much of a waste of time it is to keep playing the same broken record. The neighbours are getting fed up with the noise.

Simon

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Simon

Comments made by me on any public fora are not representative of, or on behalf of, any company I may have, or assumed by the reader to have, any association with.

Any comments are a personal opinion, and should be accepted as such.

@Troels

Quote:

Nice for you but I guess most other people have either bought a PC, MAC or A1 by now. Most Amigans don't compare the SAM to an A1200 and find it an attractive upgrade. They compare it to their pc/mac/A1 and thinks the SAM board has a lousy price/performance ratio.

People are people. As already mentionend there are people who spend hundreds of euros for an even slower classic ppc card. Even classic 68k boards go off for dream prices (i.e. 350,00 euros for a Blizzard 2060...). Compared to THAT a Sam is a cheap thing. POV, i suppose.
By the way: There are far to many people here in the threads who think they can speak for "most other people".

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

infackt it use Picasso96 overlay, and this is what makes it fast even on slow hardware

yes thats true just downloaded mplayer and just streamed flash movies without any speed lost on my x86 Winue Amiga.

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@Troels Quote:

don't compare the SAM to an A1200 and find it an attractive upgrade. They compare it to their pc/mac/A1 and thinks the SAM board has a lousy price/performance ratio.

Well, there is your problem. If you compare niche Amiga h/w (e.g. Sam440/A1/etc) to mainstream PC/Mac h/w, then you will ALWAYS be disappointed, and so never owned Amiga h/w after the 1990s...

On the other hand, if you compare modern Amiga h/w to an A1200 with an accelerator, or to an A4000, you will find that a Sam440/etc is a massive improvement in speed, size, reliability, peripheral support, cost, etc. Especially when you remember that most Amiga software was design to run at under 100MHz & with less than 128MB of RAM.

Amigas have a very nice OS, and can be wonderful to use (especially OS4), but if you don't appreciate that then certainly you will find Amiga h/w "underpowered" for things it was never intended for.

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@Troels

>> Most Amigans don't compare the SAM to an A1200 and find it an attractive upgrade.

Why not? That is what I thought, I don't compare the SAM to a pc, that is plain silly, sorry. I sold a lot of my Amiga and C64 gear to finance the SAM and I never looked back.

I used to have a super duper A1200, then I got a SAM, the obvious logical step, I never compared the A1200 to a quad pc, what a silly thing to do!

>>Some end up buying it anyway... But I can tell you that many can't justify to spend that much money on a system slower than a 6 year(?) old A1, even if they want to get back into the Amiga scene.

Is the SAM slower than an A1? Really?

Last edited by TheDaddy on 19-Aug-2009 at 10:17 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

If you believe what you type, tell me what you think AROS would have achieved as a PowerPC project.

There are many reasons why AROS doesn't have those applications you list. The historical immaturity of the OS actually preventing app development, the speed open-source projects always take to reach stable milestones, the Amiga community's focus on official Amiga software, and that most of the interested developers are too busy actually building the OS to write apps..

x86 is a major boost for AROS and one reason it is picking up momentum, while the official OS has lost almost all of the developers it once had. The evidence is very visible and simply saying that AROS doesn't have Firefox either is no counter-argument.

Chris

Last edited by clebin on 19-Aug-2009 at 11:54 PM.
Last edited by clebin on 19-Aug-2009 at 11:53 PM.
Last edited by clebin on 19-Aug-2009 at 11:51 PM.

@TheDaddy
For me the Amiga is just a hobby and even a rather cheap hobby compared to other alternatives that interest me

But some other people can't afford to have this hobby, can't afford to buy a SAM system unless it can do whatever their main system needs to do. So price/performance ratio matters to a lot of people and even if you find it ridiculous to compare the SAM to a PC/Mac (and I did mention A1) that's what some people need to do. Not everyone can afford to have 2 or 3 computer systems just for fun!

Regarding speed I think the A1 is faster in some tasks and slower in others (slow memory, fast CPU). Keep in mind that the A1-XE I have standing here, has been around for about 6 years now.

I appreciate what Acube has managed, it's a good solution for now. 'But we need better HW if we are to expand our userbase.

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@ChrisH

Quote:

Well, there is your problem. If you compare niche Amiga h/w (e.g. Sam440/A1/etc) to mainstream PC/Mac h/w, then you will ALWAYS be disappointed, and so never owned Amiga h/w after the 1990s...

I own several classic Amiga's and an A1. I don't compare the SAM to PC/MAC but some people do and these people will be hard to convince to buy a 700Mhz board in 2009. How do we expand the userbase then?

Quote:

On the other hand, if you compare modern Amiga h/w to an A1200 with an accelerator, or to an A4000, you will find that a Sam440/etc is a massive improvement in speed, size, reliability, peripheral support, cost, etc. Especially when you remember that most Amiga software was design to run at under 100MHz & with less than 128MB of RAM.

I stopped using my classics (for other than retro gaming) many years ago. Until it died recently (not totally dead, though) my A1 was my main machine but in these times i can't afford a SAM to replace it

Quote:

Amigas have a very nice OS, and can be wonderful to use (especially OS4), but if you don't appreciate that then certainly you will find Amiga h/w "underpowered" for things it was never intended for.

I enjoyed using OS4.1 on my A1-XE G4. IMHO it is not the OS that determines whether the HW is fast enough. Applications do and they show that the SAM board could have done with some more speed. Watching DVD's have given some people problems (dunno if it's still an issue), OWB is rather slow, Amicygnix and UAE is not very fast either. IF any larger applications are ported they will probably also run slow.

Having said that I would still buy a SAM to replace my A1 if I could afford it. I hope something cheaper comes along, maybe even something with more power

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@thread

Why on earth has this turned into yet another "I don't want to buy SAM because it's underpowered and overpriced" thread?

What on earth does that have to do with the topic?

Moderators, please.

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This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@cha05e90

Quote:

There are far to many people here in the threads who think they can speak for "most other people".

And there are significantly more outside of the remaining community that are never considered as potential users or consumers.

Hopefully there is a sound business strategy to whatever Hyperion is up to because the $2 million supposedly expended on OS4 can't be providing much return.

@Troels

>>But some other people can't afford to have this hobby, can't afford to buy a SAM system unless it can do whatever their main system needs to do.

I don't agree. 90% of the people on this and other Amiga fora have more than one Amiga (500, 600, 1200, 4000 etc...) expanded and at least a pc, I am pretty sure of it. I think there is just something against the SAM, but I don't know what it is.

>>Not everyone can afford to have 2 or 3 computer systems just for fun!

Following from above, I would rather have a Windows powered pc so I can do everything I want and a SAM with OS4.1. But this is just me.

All the questions regarding the SAM and its apparently "crap performance" should be addressed to ACube, I think it would be interesting to interview them and ask all these "vital" questions regarding price and performance.

I would just like to point out that 2 years ago when the first teasing picture of the SAM appeared everyone was going around screaming and shouting "alleluja" because until then all we had were A1200/A400 with bits bolted on.

SAM is your only choice to run OS4.1 (apart from the classic and Pegasos) that is GOOD ENOUGH for me to save money and buy one and when a new motherboard with faster cpu and more bells and whistles comes along, it being from ACube or other, I will try my best to buy it. The reason? If it runs OS4.x then it's a no-brainer really.

>>I appreciate what Acube has managed, it's a good solution for now. 'But we need better HW if we are to expand our userbase.

Expanding the userbase......that is not up to us to decide, it might never happen or it will just take a very long time. As I said before even if you had a 3GHz machine running OS4.1 as it is today people would probably shrug and walk away. You need something more to attract the attention. To take customers away from Windows and Apple you need to offer something new that they can't offer. It's simple.

Last edited by TheDaddy on 20-Aug-2009 at 07:42 AM.
Last edited by TheDaddy on 20-Aug-2009 at 07:41 AM.

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@TheDaddy

Quote:

You need something more to attract the attention. To take customers away from Windows and Apple you need to offer something new that they can't offer. It's simple.

that simply won't happen because AmigaOS alike OSes are just hobby OSes without real memory protection, 64bit memory system (except AROS), multiuser support, java and other important features. The only customers that may be slightly interested are those who still have a classic and those who switched to PC/MAC years ago. And making those users buy a "next gen miggy" requires something that doesn't cost them twice than a normal Wintel machine.

Last edited by Crumb on 20-Aug-2009 at 08:30 AM.

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@Crumb

>>that simply won't happen because AmigaOS alike OSes are just hobby OSes without real memory protection, 64bit memory system (except AROS), multiuser support, java and other important features.


That is why I say concentrate on software first and leave the SAM (the only machine that can actually run OS4.x) alone...

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If they port FireFox.... it think it is wasted works....

We have OWB which is based on webkit, what we need it is build a complete modern browser around it. They could spend their time to make it features rich instead of working on FireFox.

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ikir

@Crumb

Quote:

In the meantime OS4 users will buy and sell their old and slow XE systems

That shows you have never used an A1XE system.

_________________
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A1XEG3-800 [IBM 750FX PowerPC], running OS4.1FE, using ac97 onboard sound.

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@ikir

Quote:

ikir wrote: If they port FireFox.... it think it is wasted works.... We have OWB which is based on webkit, what we need it is build a complete modern browser around it. They could spend their time to make it features rich instead of working on FireFox.

would be better spend time, resources an money in make the Webkit engine (or another modern web browser engine for that matter) as a reaction (or mui) class, then every developer can add web browsing on their apps easily (without reinvent the wheel every time), even people could concentrate in make different GUIs for the web browser

Last edited by Fransexy on 20-Aug-2009 at 10:00 AM.

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@serk118

Quote:

serk118 wrote: @rigo Quote: which is only being thrown around by those that don't actually own one I dont want to buy sam due to speed not because its ppc or else. You are telling me to pay a lot of money to drive slow car? i still got the love for our beloved Amiga but not slow HW..

OS4 on SAM fly! You don't have an idea, and for the software we have 800Mhz is a lot. Do you want a speedy Amiga? Buy Sam 800/733Mhz and put in it a SSD drive (OCZ value are fast and cheap).

If you notice slow games of apps.... 99% of cases is OS4 fault (not optimized, missing things ecc) for example our 3D drivers lags behind other OSes.

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ikir