@Fransexy

Quote:

Fransexy wrote: @ikir Quote: ikir wrote: If they port FireFox.... it think it is wasted works.... We have OWB which is based on webkit, what we need it is build a complete modern browser around it. They could spend their time to make it features rich instead of working on FireFox. would be better spend time, resources an money in make the Webkit engine (or another modern web browser engine for that matter) as a reaction (or mui) class, then every developer can add web browsing on their apps easily (without reinvent the wheel every time), even people could concentrate in make different GUIs for the web browser

Yes it is another good solution, i agree.

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ikir

@Troels

Quote:

I enjoyed using OS4.1 on my A1-XE G4. IMHO it is not the OS that determines whether the HW is fast enough. Applications do and they show that the SAM board could have done with some more speed. Watching DVD's have given some people problems (dunno if it's still an issue), OWB is rather slow, Amicygnix and UAE is not very fast either. IF any larger applications are ported they will probably also run slow. Having said that I would still buy a SAM to replace my A1 if I could afford it. I hope something cheaper comes along, maybe even something with more power

SAM hardware is more than capable to play DVD and probably much more... the problem is OS optimization is decoding, 2D & 3D... as far i know we really don't use most 3D features of our gfxcard. It could boost a lot since OS4.1 is accelerated by gfxcard. OWB is quite fast for me, it depends on websites i suppose but i'm sure that more optimization could be done in OS components.

Safari on my old PowerMac 400Mhz has an acceptable speed (beside internet plugins like flash).

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ikir

@Swoop

Quote:

That shows you have never used an A1XE system.

I have used A1XE-g4/933 and uA1/800, thanks. And these systems are slower than a G4/1.5ghz.

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The only spanish amiga news web page/club: CUAZ

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

if mplayer crashs then you have not configured the stack, if you don't know how to set the stack your not an Amigan, because this has always been an issue from day one on any Amiga program or shell tool.

That shouldn't really be an issue, as it's dead easy to set the stack size in the source code of every program. If some coders still don't know how to do this, I wouldn't put all of the blame "you didn't do stack 100000" on the user...

Besides, I remember seeing "automatic stack extension for programs" on some initial OS4 feature list (when the development had barely started), what happened to that?

Last edited by Jupp3 on 20-Aug-2009 at 10:26 AM.
Last edited by Jupp3 on 20-Aug-2009 at 10:25 AM.

@TheDaddy

Quote:

That is why I say concentrate on software first and leave the SAM (the only machine that can actually run OS4.x) alone...

The problem is that the price of Sam440 won't attract classic users, cpu speed won't make A1/Peg users upgrade and cpu speed isn't breathtaking. It's a low/middle-end system being sold at high-end prices. If I was Hyperion I wouldn't focus all my resources on a slow (it's slower than systems sold 6 years ago) and expensive system that is produced in very small numbers (it's easier to find 2nd hand mac minis, you know). They should also support powerbook/iBook/Mac Mini to be sure that no hardware shortage will affect os4.x sales.

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The only spanish amiga news web page/club: CUAZ

@Crumb

>>The problem is that the price of Sam440 won't attract classic users, cpu speed won't make A1/Peg users upgrade and cpu speed isn't breathtaking.

They obviously don't need to upgrade then.

>>They should also support powerbook/iBook/Mac Mini to be sure that no hardware shortage will affect os4.x sales.

This is something you need to ask Hyperion.

I always thought that fora are good for nothing.....it all ends up in tears

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www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

@TheDaddy

If they wants to move to PS3 the Cell chip is even better than before
http://tech.yahoo.com/news/pcworld/20090820/tc_pcworld/sonysps3slimcarriesupdatedcellchip

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retired

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

Maybe its time you start learning how to program

I work as POS programmer and done it for last 18years & please dont give me crap like that.

Quote:

if mplayer crashs then you have not configured the stack,

stack its not the problem matey...
if you did run some of my 68k programs than you will now that none of them got any stack problem at all.

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http://aros-exec.org/

http://serk118.blogspot.com/

ambitious project should be an x86 porting!

or an emulator to run OS4PPC on X86 system.

Last edited by Seiya on 20-Aug-2009 at 11:06 AM.

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@AmigaBlitter

Quote:

If they wants to move to PS3 the Cell chip is even better than before

umm, did you somehow miss the following announcement?
Quote:

The new PS3 system will focus on delivering games and other entertainment content, and users will not be able to install other Operating Systems to the new PS3 system.

imho PS3 port now would make even less sense than ever before!

@serk118

Quote:

stack its not the problem matey... if you did run some of my 68k programs than you will now that none of them got any stack problem at all.

mplayer does require large amounts of stack, and always runs (ran) stable on my A1 when gieven enough. I usuaual use 200K as default, but some formats notable MJPEG encode avi produced by blender needed twice as much!

Your own 68k programs were probably written for AmigaOS specifically so you had control of the approach to stack usage, mplayer is a port so from linux so expects "infinite" stack. A stack cookie could be set in the prgram, but is that sensible when the requirements from format to format vary so much?

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BroadBlues On Blues BroadBlues On Amiga Walker Broad

@broadblues

Quote:

mplayer does require large amounts of stack

i now mplayer needs lots of stack and the crashes i had has notting to do with stack....

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http://aros-exec.org/

http://serk118.blogspot.com/

@Jupp3

Quote:

The new PS3 system will focus on delivering games and other entertainment content, and users will not be able to install other Operating Systems to the new PS3 system.

This will have repercussions to keyboard and mouse support in games (which was already pretty non-existant, C&C RedAlert3 we're looking at you)! The odds are stacked against Amiga OS to be fair. The number of target platforms open to Hyperion is shrinking - the YDL Power Tower is looking ever more feasible USB1 not withstanding!

Also, I bet Yellow Dog are a bit annoyed at Sony for getting rid of the 'Other OS' function! They supported the PS3 from the get go, and sold bundles with Linux and keyboards/mice included! A real kick in the teeth from Sony!!!

Last edited by BigD on 20-Aug-2009 at 11:53 AM.

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"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Jupp3

it's only a matter of firmware. Flashs the bios with the right firmware and you can have the "install other OS" option enabled.

The problem with the PS3 is the low memory limit (256 MB), although we have the pager for that. Another problem is the lack of documentation of the unchanged??? RSX nvidia chip.

We have good programmer in the OS4 dev team and they are able to across these limits, but i'm quite sure that the PS3 is not the mysterious secret plan. BTW... who knows?

Last edited by AmigaBlitter on 20-Aug-2009 at 12:01 PM.
Last edited by AmigaBlitter on 20-Aug-2009 at 12:00 PM.
Last edited by AmigaBlitter on 20-Aug-2009 at 11:59 AM.

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retired

@broadblues

Quote:

Your own 68k programs were probably written for AmigaOS specifically so you had control of the approach to stack usage, mplayer is a port so from linux so expects "infinite" stack. A stack cookie could be set in the prgram, but is that sensible when the requirements from format to format vary so much?

Do you seriously think it's a good idea to let (==force) users decide how much stack they need for each time they run mplayer, depending on how much they think they need for playing that one particular file? Especially when forgetting to do that would results in crash.


@AmigaBlitter

Quote:

it's only a matter of firmware. Choose the right firmware and you can have the "install other OS" option enabled.

Even on yet unreleased PS3 Slim, which we were discussing? I'd be very surprised if the slim doen't come pre-installed with the newest possible firmware (newest available when device was manufactured)

And as I commented before, I believe the support is removed from PS3 Slim, rather than from next version of firmware (which PSN and all PS3 games will soon "require"), you know, Sony is not going to risk "But I bought my PS3 only for OtherOS!" class action lawsuit.

And as usual, you cannot downgrade after upgrade.

Last edited by Jupp3 on 20-Aug-2009 at 02:01 PM.

@Jupp3
Quote:

Do you seriously think it's a good idea to let (==force) users decide how much stack they need for each time they run mplayer, depending on how much they think they need for playing that one particular file? Especially when forgetting to do that would results in crash.

Of couse, crashing because of insufficient stack (or missing library) has always been a great part of the original amiga feeling. Remove that, and it's not a real amiga program anymore :)

That said, i thought the latest OS4 version had a stack cookie.

@Fab

Quote:

That said, i thought the latest OS4 version had a stack cookie.

That cookie only ensures that the program is run with a stack of at least the size defined by the cookie. The user does not need to set a large enough stack himself. However, if this stack is exhausted the usual problems will happen. And *nix ports tend to eat up a huge amount of stack space, as you might know.

Thus the responsibility is taken from the user. But if the developer embedded a too small cookie things don't change.

Last edited by tboeckel on 20-Aug-2009 at 01:40 PM.

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Why stop it now, just when I am hating it?

Thore Böckelmann

@tboeckel

Sure, but the developer has more chances to be aware of the stack usage than the final user.
Relying on the user to guess it and blaming any crash (possibly totally unrelated to stack) on "insufficient stack" is not very professional, IMO. :)

@olegil

Quote:

Why on earth has this turned into yet another "I don't want to buy SAM because it's underpowered and overpriced" thread? What on earth does that have to do with the topic? Moderators, please.

There's no conversation to be had on the real topic!

We have a mystery device, or software, or food stuff. We don't know what it is, who it's for, when it's coming or how certain it is to happen. Nobody will answer these questions or explain why there should be such secrecy in a community that would fit inside a large hall. Not knowing what is is neither here nor there. It's the rest that shows the least respect.

I've been a robust critic of this [mindless, IMHO] loyalty to closed-source operating systems on alternative hardware platforms, so I don't deserve anything. But there are people here who will go to the ends of the earth to support Hyperion and AmigaOS.

If they're saying that the community can't deal with speculative or evolving roadmaps or are working on the assumption that they can keep their userbase in the dark and they will still be loyal then they are treating the community wtih disdain (and I've not heard anything to the contrary)

I know it's not fashionable to knock Hyperion but someone needs to explain where they're headed, and I don't think it must fall to someone like Rogue. Interest in AmigaOS is waning - can anyone argue it isn't?

That's one reason discussions don't stay on track. Instead of asking moderators to step in, how about Hyperion do?

Chris

@clebin

Quote:

Instead of asking moderators to step in, how about Hyperion do?

How about just wait for a while when the "ambitious secret project tm" gets mature enough and they announce it, as they said?

I am all for it, to let us know what it is, but if it is not close to completion yet, why would they tell anything? And if they didn't say anything, there would just be all the usual, AmigaOS is dead, Hyperion went bust.

I think they did a good thing. I still believe that the team behind the OS has devotion to the project. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know, but they did the stuff they said they will do up till now. There is no reason whatsoever for that not being the case in this instance.

Of cource, I doubt that there is anyone in the dev team who wouldn't like for things to go faster, but there is only that much developers and so many resources.

It is extremely easy to sit behind a desk and just criticize everything you don't like, but a whole lot different when you invest yourself into something.

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You can crack anything with your head, even the head itself.
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...proud AOS user since 1993
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