@cha05e90

Quote:

Hm, really? I buyed and paid for "OS4.1 Beta for Sam440ep". We had some QuickFixes since then, but nobody told me, that the OS4.1 version for my Sam440ep is *not* beta anymore, but considered as "final". Where is that stated?

In the link I already had in my previous post:
(posted by Rogue)
Quote:

Quote: Isn't OS4 still in Beta? No

That sounds like "OS4 in general"

@Jupp3

Quote:

Jupp3 wrote: It was just confirmed that it is no longer beta (even in this same thread)

That was referring to the OS4 version for the Pegasos II boards. The Sam440ep and Flex version is still in beta, and will remain so until the next full update.

There will be official confirmation that the Sam version is out of beta at the right time. The Pegasos II version was never released as a public beta.

Simon

_________________
Simon

Comments made by me on any public fora are not representative of, or on behalf of, any company I may have, or assumed by the reader to have, any association with.

Any comments are a personal opinion, and should be accepted as such.

@rigo

Thanks for the clarification.

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@thread.


Put OS4 in a SAT NAV, then you can have all the road maps you want.



Wol..

_________________
It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder.~Albert Einstein

@Gleng

Wouldn't that be AtariOS4?

@NutsAboutAmiga

Sorry, I've been away for a few days.

Quote:

At least the same as MorphOS or AmigaOS4, being able to run 680x0 software should be possible whit AROS for PowerPC, but they did not go down that route.

That's a bizarre argument. It didn't happen, even though there was no barrier whatsoever to it happening. Anybody can work on the PowerPC version of AROS if they want to. It didn't happen because PowerPC is dead and gone in most people's minds.

Quote:

actually your wrong, its not because immaturity of the OS, it is because AmigaOS4/AROS and MorphOS is designed up on legacy API that no one else uses, so no matter what CPU you run on, you most rewrite large amount of code to get wherry basic components to run, like Pango, GTK or GDK, and many of components that this large software packages depends on.

That's definitely an issue too, although I don't see how that makes me wrong. As the OS matures, there might be work on Posix compliance and X11. Then you might see Qt or GTK+ toolkits. One step at a time, but first there's a whole heap of work in the OS to finish. The underlying problem has always been the number of developers working on AROS.

I know it's not difficult to port from one CPU architecture to another. But who can even be bothered porting to PowerPC? There will always be many times less developers buying PowerPC machines and making software run on them and that's not how you build a developer base. That's my point.

Chris

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

If I was to comment about AROS like that I say Right now, there's no plan, no sense of direction, lack of focuses on hardware support, sorry AROS developers, but that's where my interest lies. and then we flame on

Asking for information from Hyperion is flaming? Right-oh.

Yes, AROS lacks a plan and direction too. But it moves forward because of the many. It moves forward because users put money into bounties and communicate with developers, and beause developers are free to choose any area to work on that they wish, and all the source code goes into nightly builds for others to build on.

How is this like AmigaOS? It isn't. At all.

Chris

@thread

Someone said that Apple and Microsoft do not have publish roadmaps. This is absolutely false.

Microsoft's plans for Longhorn, Vista, Windows 7 and so on were known years in advance. Apple may be one of the most secretive companies in the world, but even their plans are more open than Hyperion's.

Take the development of OS X. The original roadmap for Rhapsody, was communicated back in 1997, years before OS X even hit the first release. That roadmap changed with Jobs becoming CEO, but when the community desperately needed guidance, the roadmap was there for them.

The Aqua user-interface was previewed well before the OS X Public Beta. The Carbon and Cocoa frameworks for moving classic Mac apps to the new OS were outlined back in 1998, I think. The feature set for the latest release, Snow Leopard, was presented a year ago just like every OS X release.

Apple is very secretive in other respects - the move to Intel being one, new hardware being another. They've got more secretive the more successful they've been, and why not? Their business is thriving and they like the mystique.

It's a bad idea, IMO, to take that logic to a platform that is faltering and losing users. First priority should be to convince the existing users that you have a plan, there's reason to keep faith and you know exactly what you're doing. Exactly like Apple did in the 1990s!

I can't see any good reason for secrecy. If there is a good reason, then at least tell me so I can stop making negative posts. I've asked, others have asked, but no response...

Chris

Last edited by clebin on 25-Aug-2009 at 03:31 PM.
Last edited by clebin on 25-Aug-2009 at 03:28 PM.

Quote:

I can't see any good reason for secrecy. If there is a good reason, then at least tell me so I can stop making negative posts. I've asked, others have asked, but no response...

Well: the other camp (be it red or blue) may still your ideas... That was what was advanced. But it was some time ago. I guess they don't even have any plan right now... What else could that be ?

Guess it's easier to just let people in the blur than announcing some plan, and stick to it... Cause if you don't announce anything, you may fail, change your plans, change direction,.. without announcing anything. If you announce something.. and it turns out it doesn't work the way you wanted, well, you owe the community some explaination...

People get angry, but who cares ? You don't owe them anything. And they just should buy a PC/Mac and play with Windows/MacOSX if they aren't happy, right ? That's the way it works right now...

_________________
http://www.warpdesign.fr/

@clebin

I'm not associated in any way with Hyperion, but knowing the amiga community I suspect the reason they're being quiet is the "vista effect": if you promise a ton of stuff and then don't deliver people will compare what you ship with what you promised, and if the two are sufficiently different, regarless of how good the final product actually is, they'll still call it unfinished crud. I've worked in some large software projects, and I can tell you that what happened in vista (coming up with a grandiose set of features and then have them trimmed back one by one to meet the ship date) is pretty normal. The difference is that most sane companies have this happen behind closed doors and only announce the feature list when they're pretty sure nothing else is going to get cut. If Hyperion were to announce today what they're working on, they'd be in a no-win situation anyway. If they don't talk about its features, people would complain that it's all just an empty tease; but if they do and it's still too early in the release cycle, they risk the vista effect.

@Leo Quote:

Bringing OS3 to modern standard means adding memory protection. It means losing compatibility. You may add APIs ready for that, like Apple did with carbon. OS4 team didn't. So any current application will have to be rewritten. That's not what I call modern standards. I bought OS4, guess I have the right to tell what I think... even though it's not positive. I don't think dancing bananas will drive the OS forward... Critics may but you have to accept it...

Bzzzt, wrong. You don't have the right to be rude, condescending & contemptuous to everyone who doesn't agree with you. And you especially should not expect any respect from other people, if you show none yourself (to others that hold different viewpoints).

One imagines that you only bought OS4 (or claim to have done so) just so that you can "justify" criticising it (even though most such criticisms from you seem to be options rather than facts).

I won't be drawn into trying to argue with you about your first paragraph, since it doesn't contain any real substance anyway - it is clearly pure "flamebait" (couched in pseudo-intellectual fluff).

P.S. If you don't like being called a troll (I guess you don't care), you could try not to act like one.

Last edited by ChrisH on 25-Aug-2009 at 06:43 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 25-Aug-2009 at 06:36 PM.

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@Leo Quote:

@Hans: it's not pessimistic, it's reality... Of course it is more modern than OS3.x was. But the problem is that all main limitations are still there... Everyone seem to be happy with that, I am not. That's just it. Of course it will take time... but I don't see OS4 going towards it... I mean: what's the use of spending time and ressources "improving" something you know you'll have to break/rewrite completely to remove these limitations ? Can you honestly deny OS4 is outdated, and will remain so until a new modern base is written ?

OS4 is (give or take certain bits) about as outdated as MOS, when compared to Linux/etc. However I find OS4 is a joy to use, so I can live with some minor inconveniences. I imagine you feel the same way about MOS?

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@Cool_amigaN Quote:

And let me take the chance to say that: We are happy to announce the immediate release of OS4 in the x86 family of processors. Press release will follow shortly

Good joke! Stopped taking your dried frog pills?

(Sorry for the cliched Terry Pratchett reference, and no insult intended.)

_________________

Quote:

I imagine you feel the same way about MOS?

I can't live with MOS either. I just wish we had a true new "NextGen" AmigaOS. Much like OSX,... I know it would take time. I know it may never be finished. But I don't care: I'd rather participate in a nice adventure to bring the OS out of the eighties, than staying with these limitations...

But doing work, not knowing writing a new OS is the goal (for example: I hoped the Q/Box would be further developped in next versions of the OS... and I then learnt, after years of silence, well, that QBox wasn't the priority at all, and work was concentrated on the old API).
I don't know what's the goal of OS4. It seems compatiblity is still the goal... So clarifying that would be great.

_________________
http://www.warpdesign.fr/

@Leo Quote:

I can't live with MOS either

If you dislike MOS so much as well (*), may I ask where are all your posts about how MOS sucks so bad?

(* = this is kind of difficult to believe, given all your previous posts about how MOS is so superior to OS4 in every way, and that OS4 should just be thrown in the bin.)

Quote:

I'd rather participate in a nice adventure to bring the OS out of the eighties

Then you should be supporting OS4 over MOS, because Rogue has previously described a little of their plans to re-implement OS4 in such a way as to provide multi-core support, complete memory protection, resource tracking, etc - while still providing backwards compatibilty. (While no time scale was given, I have my hopes that this may be their "most ambitious project" that they can't currently talk about in public.)

Alternatively, you could try supporting Anubis, since they hope to implement an "Amiga-like OS" with modern features. Not sure if Anubis has gotten anywhere yet though...

Last edited by ChrisH on 25-Aug-2009 at 10:39 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 25-Aug-2009 at 10:38 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 25-Aug-2009 at 10:34 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 25-Aug-2009 at 10:33 PM.

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@ChrisH

Anubis is just Amiga skin on top Linux, it has bin done before and its nothing new.

Linux drivers, Linux kernel, X-Windows desktop, now put some skin on top and you have AmigaOS imitation, they might hide filesystem, or do some thing whit Linux to hide what its based on, but as soon your going to install your sound drivers Alsa or OSS, you know its not an real Amiga, or need to configure the Linux kernel.

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@ChrisH

Quote:

If you dislike MOS so much as well (*), may I ask where are all your posts about how MOS sucks so bad?

Don't worry, he also spent a great time (years ) telling MorphOS sucks because there's no memory protection and so on. Now it's your turn, deal with it. But he paid for OS4 (unlike MorphOS), so he's entitled to do so even more. :)

Quote:

Then you should be supporting OS4 over MOS, because Rogue has previously described a little of their plans to re-implement OS4 in such a way as to provide multi-core support, complete memory protection, resource tracking, etc - while still providing backwards compatibilty. (While no time scale was given, I have my hopes that this may be their "most ambitious project" that they can't currently talk about in public.)

Unless we're proven otherwise (this most ambitious project maybe? :)), all these memory protection/resource-tracking/automagically-autoexpanding stacks buzz words were either a wet dream (a world where compatibility issues don't exist) or a nice way to harm the concurrent OS. :)

Don't mix a real roadmap with wet dreams.

Last edited by Fab on 25-Aug-2009 at 11:28 PM.

@Fab: what sucks isn't that there is no memory protection, and so on... What sucks is that the QBox is the foundation of a true modern OS, and resources are put on the ABox instead...

Btw I didn't buy MorphOS 2.x but surely spent a lot more in Pegasos hardware. MorphOS 1.x came free with it, and money from these sales is supposed to have funded MorphOS development in the early days. But that's off subject anyway, and you were not part of the team yet iirc.

Quote:

(* = this is kind of difficult to believe, given all your previous posts about how MOS is so superior to OS4 in every way, and that OS4 should just be thrown in the bin.)

Yeah, it seems it's hard to believe it's possible to remain objective.

I couldn't live with MorphOS but fact is it is a lot faster than OS4. It is also a lot more polished and complete. Just improve it, and I'd be happy to say the contrary... even though I can't live with OS4 (as it is now) either.

I also like my web-work but there is still a lot of work to be done, and a lot of room for improvements... And guess what ? A lot of designers are doing a far better job than mine... And this is what's making me improve myself...

Oh, and btw I also don't like Unix at all. But I have to admit MacOSX is rock-solid, and very polished.

Last edited by Leo on 26-Aug-2009 at 12:45 AM.
Last edited by Leo on 26-Aug-2009 at 12:44 AM.
Last edited by Leo on 26-Aug-2009 at 12:43 AM.
Last edited by Leo on 26-Aug-2009 at 12:41 AM.

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http://www.warpdesign.fr/

@Leo

Quote:

Leo wrote: I couldn't live with MorphOS but fact is it is a lot faster than OS4. It is also a lot more polished and complete. Just improve it, and I'd be happy to say the contrary... even though I can't live with OS4 (as it is now) either.

If you don't enjoy either MorphOS or Amiga OS 4, then why are you here?

Hans

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@Hans

Quote:

Hans wrote: @Leo If you don't enjoy either MorphOS or Amiga OS 4, then why are you here? Hans

Perfect response. It's a paradox.

Chris