@Birbo

Quote:

It is important to have good applications, but it is important to, telling the developers, that it's worth, making some new apps.

I agree with that. At least devoted loyal users and developers should know a little bit more.

@Crumb
Quote:

Developing expensive and underpowered hardware as a dongle for a hobby OS is not the best way to make it popular

Porting an OS to discontinued hardware is the biggest dead end you can get.

@all
Well that project will be revealed . Why can't we just wait. (I know discussing it eases "pain".)

Last edited by Tomppeli on 19-Aug-2009 at 04:30 PM.

_________________
Rock lobster bit me. My Workbench has always preferences. X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE
"Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray

@Tomppeli

>>Porting an OS to discontinued hardware is the biggest dead end you can get.


AMEN!

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@TheDaddy

Quote:

I fail to see what an extra GHz makes apart from running applications faster. BUT if you DON'T have applications...what are you going to do with that fast machine?

Even if we had the apps our OS would still be a hobby OS without memory protection, users and 64bit memory system. And even if we had all that at current amiga hardware prices it still would be damn *expensive* and nobody would buy it.

Quote:

1) Amiga back to the old glory days? (you need a complete, competitive OS)

that won't happen just because of the example you given with Apple. Even if OS4 had Firefox, OpenOffice and the latest games you should keep in mind that a not well written app can still crash the entire system. There's no security concept so if OS4 was as popular as Amiga was in 1991 you would get hundreds of virus/trojans. There's a memory limit around 1.8GB and that's an important disadvantage that will be even more important in the future.

Quote:

2) Niche market for a few hundreds enthusiasts?

If you release your hobby OS for existing hardware your community will be ten times bigger than using expensive and underpowered hardware prototypes that have nothing special/exciting that makes people buy it.


Hyperion and their partners should take care of increasing user base to the maximum to avoid amiga community collapse instead of releasing overpriced and slow hardware.

If they think cpu speed is not important they could release it to work on QEmu or SheepShaver. At least that way the userbase would increase. Or at least release it for existing PPC Macs.

MorphOS will be released this year for Mac Mini and every MorphOS user will have access to G4s at 1.25-1.5ghz for ridiculous low prices. In the meantime OS4 users will buy and sell their old and slow XE systems at premium prices because there's no decent hardware right now. The new hardware being sold today is slower than the hardware sold by amiga distributors 6 years ago. If you want speed you have to buy overpriced and slow machines. Since everyone who is interested on OS4 and wants a decent cpu needs to invest on second hand hardware please at least make OS4 available for Mac Mini so users have no 2nd hand hardware supply problems and can buy 2nd hand hardware at a decent price.

_________________
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@Crumb

>>Even if we had the apps our OS would still be a hobby OS without memory protection, users and 64bit memory system. And even if we had all that at current amiga hardware prices it still would be damn *expensive* and nobody would buy it.

Sorry, with software I meant those things as well

But remember Amiga has always been expensive, and I am sure it will always be.

your questions are all relevant and important, but only Hyperion can answer them. I am not sure of OS4 on mac mini but my SAM seem pretty quick to me, is yours?

I see and have seen people buying and still buying out of date and very expensive, slow hardware (compared to the SAM) see Blizzards, Apollo, Cybervison cards...what is all that about?

Last edited by TheDaddy on 19-Aug-2009 at 04:48 PM.
Last edited by TheDaddy on 19-Aug-2009 at 04:46 PM.

_________________
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@Tomppeli

Quote:

Porting an OS to discontinued hardware is the biggest dead end you can get.

Hyperion ported AmigaOS4 to BlizzardPPC and CyberstormPPC boards, after the AmigaONE version, you might think that was dead end, but some die hardcore classic Amiga users where won over by being able to buy OS4.0 classic, and now maybe they own a Sam440 system.

What Hyperion did in case whit the BlizzardPPC and CyberstormPPC add on cards where to support an established users base, thats different from porting the OS to some hardware you can only get from ebay whit out warranty, whit out an established user base.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 19-Aug-2009 at 04:46 PM.

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@Crumb

Hi Crumb is this your PowerBook

http://www.tuaw.com/2004/05/15/p-p-p-powerbook/

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@TheDaddy

To answer your question: No I don't have a Sam. I have a uA1@800MHz (G3) with AOS 4.1.

And I have: A500 an A1200.

I do my work on a Mac. But the Amiga ist still fun - especiallly playing games on the A1200 -> on my projector.

I know, that SAM is a good piece of hardware. And i like AOS 4.1. Now all I want to know is, what are the plans of Hyperion and ACube. I don't need the details. But I fear, that there is no concrete strategy.

Main Questions: What is SAM & AOS 4.1 good for? For which use were they developed?

_________________
Sometimes we give people a lot of credit just because they're writing nice sentences even if it isn't adding up to much.

@Tomppeli

Quote:

Porting an OS to discontinued hardware is the biggest dead end you can get.

Like Pegasos2? I saw lots of betatesters and users getting rid of their A1/uA1 to buy second hand Pegasos2. The second hand market also moves a lot with people buying and selling 2nd hand machines. It doesn't seem that most of amiga users are worried about using 2nd hand hardware (looking at the number of CSPPC/A1/Peg2 sold and bought)

I think that having 200 users with "new" subghz prototypes slower than the systems released 6 years ago is worse than having 1000 with second hand 1.5Ghz G4.

_________________
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@Birbo

>>Now all I want to know is, what are the plans of Hyperion and ACube. I don't need the details. But I fear, that there is no concrete strategy.

I personally don't know...Hyp and ACube should answer, if they wanted...
If ther eis no concrete strategy there is nothing we can do.


>>What is SAM & AOS 4.1 good for? For which use were they developed?

For people who wanted a new machine, I, for example, wanted something faster than my A1200 and I have got it

_________________
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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

Hi Crumb is this your PowerBook http://www.tuaw.com/2004/05/15/p-p-p-powerbook/

Oh of course it's not! my keyboard has "ñ"

-edit- I don't know what's wrong with the message but it messes the layout

Last edited by tomazkid on 19-Aug-2009 at 10:13 PM.
Last edited by Crumb on 19-Aug-2009 at 06:06 PM.
Last edited by Crumb on 19-Aug-2009 at 06:05 PM.
Last edited by Crumb on 19-Aug-2009 at 06:05 PM.

_________________
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@TheDaddy

Quote:

But remember Amiga has always been expensive, and I am sure it will always be.

I don't remember Amiga as expensive because A500 and A1200 were quite affordable. A500/A1200 had a pretty good features/price ratio in comparison with other computers. Nowadays OS4 hardware is not exactly state of the art and is quite expensive.

Quote:

I see and have seen people buying and still buying out of date and very expensive, slow hardware (compared to the SAM) see Blizzards, Apollo, Cybervison cards...what is all that about?

I guess that classics are much more exciting to old time users and allow them to run almost 100% of the classic software they want to run. It's not hard to find users complaining because certain software doesn't run transparently on next gen computers.


(fixed broken quote in the post above /tomazkid)

Last edited by tomazkid on 19-Aug-2009 at 10:13 PM.
Last edited by tomazkid on 19-Aug-2009 at 10:12 PM.

_________________
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@Birbo

Quote:

I know, that SAM is a good piece of hardware. And i like AOS 4.1. Now all I want to know is, what are the plans of Hyperion and ACube. I don't need the details. But I fear, that there is no concrete strategy.

Your feelings are misplaced. Part of the "ambitious" project is to secure the future of AmigaOS 4 for the foreseeable future. There is no reason why this shouldn't happen, barring human extinction in the meantime :)

Quote:

Main Questions: What is SAM & AOS 4.1 good for? For which use were they developed?

As it was the only new hardware capable of running OS4 without major reworking of the system, it was to allow users to purchase the first new hardware in, what, six years? It can be regarded as the entry level hardware spec now. I'm sure any future hardware will be more up-to-date with regards to the CPU and memory etc.

ACube may, or may not, decide to invest more money in researching the next SAM system, I guess it really all depends on whether they feel that they have sufficient income from their existing hardware to finance more work. That's the problem with technology, it never stands still. If you wait to buy the best washing machine ever, you'll never actually own one.

_________________
Simon

Comments made by me on any public fora are not representative of, or on behalf of, any company I may have, or assumed by the reader to have, any association with.

Any comments are a personal opinion, and should be accepted as such.

@rigo

Perfectly put!

_________________
www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

@rigo

@TheDaddy

Thank you very much for your answers.

_________________
Sometimes we give people a lot of credit just because they're writing nice sentences even if it isn't adding up to much.

Quote:

invest more money in researching the next SAM system

Why dont they invest money on porting AOS4 to x86 hardware? instead on next SAM system?

I still think use that time & money on x86 port and no more HW problem.


if(port_aos4==x86)
{
start porting
java.
Flash.
FireFox.
OpenOffice.
Video Editor/player/creater.
Music Editor/player/creater.
more...and time has been lost just porting not thinking about PPC HW or other HW..

So Graphics/Network/Sound/etc cards are everywhere not just one online internet site
and they are CHEAP plus x86 itself is Cheap so whats sems to be the problem by not going for Cheap x86 HW and there are lots of companies out there trying to produce newer addons for x86 . unlike ppc x86 is not discontinued and it will be even more faster in couple of years time.
}

else

SamPPC

Wait while some one porting a sdl based browser or some silly game that will take 10 years to be ported.

OS3.1 looks good under sam os4 and no real use of newer software so nothing
for users so why do we even got os4.

my WinUAE x86 based pc is faster than Sam with OS4.


why are we stuck with PPC?

why do we have to wait all the times?


its 2009 why can we not use or got a decent Browser or Office suit & still using 68k apps?


So we got Sam OS4 now than why are we still using 68k apps amigas?


to be a winner be with a winner not losers so ppc(it had good days) lost its war agains x86(in bussiness) so why are we still trying to wake dead PPC up and running?

my question the real question is whats wrong with x86 fast HW ?????

_________________
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http://serk118.blogspot.com/

@serk118

Quote:

Why dont they invest money on porting AOS4 to x86 hardware? instead on next SAM system?

Well, lets actually think about that statement for a moment.......



.....ACube are not in control of the OS4 sources, so a port to x86 is not ACubes decision to make?.

Quote:

I still think use that time & money on x86 port and no more HW problem.

I really don't understand why there is so much effort put into repeatedly saying the same old thing. An x86 port is NOT going to happen at any time in the near future, it has been said time and time again. And even if it was, it would really achieve very little. You wouldn't suddenly be able to run OpenOffice or Firefox on it just because the underlying CPU is an x86 instead of a PPC. All the software that is being asked for will still need to be written to suit OS4, just as it is now.

And there is no hardware problem. The Sam systems are at the dealers and available to buy. The truth of the matter is, not that they are outdated or underpowered (which is only being thrown around by those that don't actually own one), but that some are not prepared to pay for it. Maybe that's why we don't all own a Rolls Royce, although we can always look at someone elses.

Strange how CSPPCs are still fetching hundred of pounds on online auction sites, sometimes even more than a pre-built Sam system, and no-one moans that it is outdated and underpowered.

Last edited by rigo on 19-Aug-2009 at 08:09 PM.

_________________
Simon

Comments made by me on any public fora are not representative of, or on behalf of, any company I may have, or assumed by the reader to have, any association with.

Any comments are a personal opinion, and should be accepted as such.

@serk118

Quote:

if(port_aos4==x86) { start porting java. Flash. FireFox. OpenOffice. Video Editor/player/creater. Music Editor/player/creater. more...and time has been lost just porting not thinking about PPC HW or other HW.. So Graphics/Network/Sound/etc cards are everywhere not just one online internet site and they are CHEAP plus x86 itself is Cheap so whats sems to be the problem by not going for Cheap x86 HW and there are lots of companies out there trying to produce newer addons for x86 . unlike ppc x86 is not discontinued and it will be even more faster in couple of years time. }

your so wrong, just look at AROS do you find
JAVA for AROS = NO
FLASH for AROS = NO
FIREFOX for AROS = NO
OpenOffice for AROS = NO

In fack it will have effect of less programs, becouse developers will need to rewrite there existing programs to x86, more work and less progress.
and lets not forget old software that runs on OS4 using built in 680x0 Petunia JIT compiler, will not work on AmigaOS4 x86.

does OS4 have flash = yes, it has where old one.
will OS4 get newer one = yes Gnash is being worked on.
does OS4 have new spreadsheet app and nice word-process = yes old and new, Abiword being the best one.

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@serk118

Quote:

my WinUAE x86 based pc is faster than Sam with OS4.

Emulated 68k CPU (WinUAE) could be as fast as 440EP in SAM, if you have CPU with performance greater than 26 SpecInt2006 (eg. Core i7).

@TheDaddy

Quote:

For people who wanted a new machine, I, for example, wanted something faster than my A1200 and I have got it

Nice for you but I guess most other people have either bought a PC, MAC or A1 by now. Most Amigans don't compare the SAM to an A1200 and find it an attractive upgrade. They compare it to their pc/mac/A1 and thinks the SAM board has a lousy price/performance ratio.

Some end up buying it anyway... But I can tell you that many can't justify to spend that much money on a system slower than a 6 year(?) old A1, even if they want to get back into the Amiga scene.

_________________

@rigo

Quote:

And there is no hardware problem.

There IS hardware problem! Common x86 CPUs are at least 10 (!) times faster than 440EP in SAM. Common x86 motherboards have PCIe etc. etc.

I have nothing against SAM, it is nice hardware for our small community and I will (hopefully) buy one. But we (I) need something more powerful (970MP?) for tasks like HD video, emulators etc.