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      /  Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
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KimmoK 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 19:45:07
#101 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5188
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@Leo

"Windows/OSX/Linux/Whatever may be slower than AmigaOS-style OS while drawing stuff, when the CPU usage is high, the cache used in these OS make it quite contstant at doing these tasks... While performance crawls on any Amiga style OS when CPU usage reaches 70-90%."

Have you totally lost it?


I've used AOS with 600% cpu loads and it does not show any slowdown effects. (on 50Mhz CPU)

On Amiga style OS one can set priorities and rely on them, unlike on any mainstream OS.
(and to make it more automatic we need executive on 68k)

On Amiga style OS one has also been able to use virtual memory without any system slowdown.
(windowsXP is the other extreme, one can not fully disable virtual memory)


(about window updating: On 68k the window updating started to slow after hunder(s) of analog clocks tried to update seconds at the same time, after 700 clocks were open, the wb was no longer accessible. On NT4 it was possible to run 75 clocks.)

Last edited by KimmoK on 21-Dec-2009 at 07:46 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 21-Dec-2009 at 07:45 PM.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
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KimmoK 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 19:55:05
#102 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5188
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@Leo

>- It runs on hardware that isn't mainstream, can't be bought anywhere but in two or three online stores.

Not true.
AROS HW is sold in every shop.
AOS4 is sold in more than three shops (ten(s)) I believe.
(I do not mention Amiga emulator packs that start to appear in many main x86 shop.)

>- It laks a lot of stuff considered mainstream and a must today, for any OS, including embeded ones: memory protection, resource tracking, swap, multi-user/session.

A lot of embedded systems do not use memory protection. For example at my work we have memory protection in the OS, but we can not use it because the performance hit is too big, even on PPC440.





In the end. "Dear friends have a lot of nick names" may hobby OS be one of them.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
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KimmoK 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 19:58:41
#103 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5188
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@PulsatingQuasar

Does W7 have better HW suport than Vista?

(Vista does not boot at all on this AMD64x2 box. W2000 worked on my previous box only with DMA off, etc... It's annoying to be forced to swap a lot of existing HW when updating windows, again and again.)

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
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Amiga1200Mark 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 20:39:59
#104 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 25-Jul-2008
Posts: 139
From: Liverpool

@DAX

My thoughts exactly. Roll on 2010 and beyond. Hyperion have been around through the bad times over the last 9 years or so. Now the way is much clearer, things will hopefully move along and improve at a faster rate.

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Frek 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 20:41:44
#105 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 21-Jul-2009
Posts: 134
From: Unknown

@itix

Ofcourse, the C64 isn't running an hobby OS- like 90% of the rest of all professional computers, the C64 runs a microsoft OS. so it can not per definition be a hobby computer :p

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PulsatingQuasar 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 21:18:51
#106 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 550
From: The Netherlands, Europe

@KimmoK

Yep. It does support hardware a lot better. But mind you. You might need to update your BIOS if the Windows 7 installation DVD bombs out on you.

I had to do that at work with a Dell Precision 380 machine because it contained several bugs related to PCI-E which Windows XP drivers tolerated but Windows 7 didn't. But that is hardly the fault of Windows 7.

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Crumb 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 21:42:42
#107 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Mar-2003
Posts: 2208
From: Zaragoza (Aragonian State)

@phase5fan

Thanks for the tip. With LinuxPPC I'll give it a go to the IBM Java but since the webpage is very picky I have doubts about it working. The problem with eBay is Flash compatibility so we'll have to wait until gnash/swfdec improve.

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ChrisH 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 21:44:22
#108 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@Arko Quote:
slow progress on the Sam440 version that is still beta 2,5 years after Sam was introduced-

If you are going to base development time from when the hardware was introduced, not when OS was first released, then MorphOS took 5+ years to appear on Mac Mini... Of course that's a nonsense :)

OS4 has been available as beta to consumers for 1 year, maybe 1.5, no need exaggerate it :)

Last edited by ChrisH on 21-Dec-2009 at 10:05 PM.

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ChrisH 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 21:47:49
#109 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@Kicko Quote:
Now i dont even know what hobby is anymore after reading all peoples posts.

A "hobby" is easy to define, but a "hobby OS" can mean just about anything you want it to (since there is no shared agreement about the term).

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KimmoK 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 21:50:50
#110 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5188
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@PulsatingQuasar

If some OS tolerates bugs better than the other, perhaps the first one was better in that respect...?

For my old x86 machine the HW got finally fixed when I installed Ubuntu, full DMA was possible (unlike with w2000+latest BIOS) and ethernet drivers did not leak memory (unlike with w98se). Finally, the CPU died after about̃7 years, RIP.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
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ChrisH 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 21:58:10
#111 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@Crumb Quote:
Using a technically obsolete OS on "obsolete" hardware (or at least not up to current standards) in spite of being able to use stable and well proven modern technologies is ... a hobby.

Even when one finds that they get a BETTER overall experience using the "technically obsolete OS" running on "obsolete hardware"?

I certainly would not be using OS4 on Sam440 if I felt it was worse than using Windows for the things I do. Of course that relies on the things I find important, such as a super-responsive GUI, and file management that doesn't grind to a halt for no obvious reason while trying to be "intelligent".

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ChrisH 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 22:00:26
#112 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@Leo Quote:
AmigaOS (and any Amiga-like OS) are hobbit OS: live with it ! :)

Not every shares your definition of "hobby OS": live with it! :)

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Crumb 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 22:13:12
#113 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Mar-2003
Posts: 2208
From: Zaragoza (Aragonian State)

@DAX

Quote:
You keep your old habit about replying line by line A few lines later you can see that I agree with you in that Amiga OS cannot be called modern by any extent of the word today.


Of course, just like using Amigas, quoting is a nice tradition

Quote:
But alas a troubled commercial OS that could not advance at constant speed (and that is a WIP) and that only now is living a new beginning, cannot be put in the same basket as dead abandoned stuff, no matter if "hobby guys" keep the c-64 alive.. it's not the same thing.


Sure we prefer amiga flavours to c64 (even on steroids with super-cpu), but the borderline between obsolete OSes and retrocomputing is quite thin. There are accelerators for c64, Atari... and Amiga was also abandoned and dead for a long long time.

Quote:
Some dreamed it was the same, that AmigaOS was dead and soon to be open sourced but wake up, it's not gonna happen.


Since AROS advanced way more than OS3.1 I don't think it's needed any longer (except for those who care about names).

AmigaOS sources were released by the pirate group Digital Corruption many years ago so it's not so difficult to find

Quote:
On my part I believe we will get a quite modern AmigaOS (and competent HW to run it on) now that the road has cleared...(but we end up always in the same "wait and see" spot).


An updated AmigaOS is posible but that doesn't mean it has the features included in modern OSes. I seriously doubt we can get decently priced hardware with decent performance in 1-2 years.

Quote:
Yes in our case these guys worked for Hyperion at who knows what conditions, but I would not belittle their talents just because they accepted to do work for free (or who knows for what).


Working on a hobby OS does not imply lack of talent, just like working in your spare time because you need a real job doesn't mean your hobby project is bad.

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Crumb 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 22:28:23
#114 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Mar-2003
Posts: 2208
From: Zaragoza (Aragonian State)

@ChrisH

Quote:
Even when one finds that they get a BETTER overall experience using the "technically obsolete OS" running on "obsolete hardware"? I certainly would not be using OS4 on Sam440 if I felt it was worse than using Windows for the things I do. Of course that relies on the things I find important, such as a super-responsive GUI, and file management that doesn't grind to a halt for no obvious reason while trying to be "intelligent".


Crashing the OS with a small app ruins all the user experience. Some amiga users put an exaggerated importance in the booting time compared to other OSes because they think people is still running Win95. Most computer OSes don't need to reboot their systems. I go to the office, turn on my WinXP box and it's not turned down until I go out of the office. Sometimes it's turned on for days. No crashes. Copying files don't produce halts or the things you describe. I/O is usually better in most OSes than it is on AmigaOS. Since most computer users can use right now USB2.0 speeds I don't think it's a good idea to compare OS4.1 file copying abilities with other OSes You are aware of most amigaoses disadvantages so there's no sense in me listing all them.

Anyway... some of the things you value so much are not valued by most of the world: people want to run apps and usually don't care much about what's running their latest apps as long as it does not crash, allows them to interchange stuff and runs on a cheap box. AmigaOS is not the perfect OS to do that because it's obsolete even if you add a lot of eyecandy and ported all the apps because without memory protection its value is zero.

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Wol 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 22:56:39
#115 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 968
From: UK.......Sol 3.

@Crumb

My fully loaded A4000 Crashed last month, first time in 6 years; not bad considering it's
used everyday.



Wol..


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Gebrochen 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 22-Dec-2009 0:19:19
#116 ]
Super Member
Joined: 23-Nov-2008
Posts: 1410
From: Australia, VIC

@Thread

So we all have different meanings behind Hobby OS.

I think if one uses an OS as their Daily OS, then it is beyond hobby, but more ones Mainstream OS.

That technically means all my other OS'es at home that Arent Amiga OS, are hobby, according to this loose terminolgy.

Interesting.

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DAX 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 22-Dec-2009 0:21:03
#117 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@Crumb
I use Sam and OS 4.1 (with fix and debug kernel) everyday since early November and crashes have been in numbers very similar to my Windows Rig (and in some of those I even manged to contain it by clicking on ignore DSI errors, no re-boot, the machine was able to go on till night without troubles). All the tragedy you describe was not part of my experience so far, on the other end my sister called me two weeks ago to inform me that her computer (Compaq Presario + WinXP Home) couldn't wake up from hibernation due to a corrupted cfg file...

Quote:
An updated AmigaOS is posible but that doesn't mean it has the features included in modern OSes. I seriously doubt we can get decently priced hardware with decent performance in 1-2 years.

I can tell it in reverse: it is possible that we won't get all the features or hardware, but since you are no one to predict this for sure, it doesn't mean it won't happen either...

Quote:
Working on a hobby OS does not imply lack of talent, just like working in your spare time because you need a real job doesn't mean your hobby project is bad.

AmigaOS is not a hobby project, and only some devs do work in exchange for nothing.
So, what you say its true but does not apply to the current situation and believe it or not the more we go ahead, the less it will apply.

Last edited by DAX on 22-Dec-2009 at 12:23 AM.

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PulsatingQuasar 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 22-Dec-2009 8:34:21
#118 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 550
From: The Netherlands, Europe

@KimmoK

No I don't think so. An OS is used to run software on and should be as stable as possible. Therefore an OS should never tolerate bugs. It should bomb out so the hardware manufacturer is forced to fix the problem.

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itix 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 22-Dec-2009 8:36:26
#119 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@DAX

Quote:

C-64 is not a Hobby "OS" is an ultra outdated computer. It will never be able to run Blender, Firefox or play HD videos.


Yes the application support lags little behind but you never know what new interesting developments we get in the future. The future looks bright

@frek
Quote:

Ofcourse, the C64 isn't running an hobby OS- like 90% of the rest of all professional computers, the C64 runs a microsoft OS. so it can not per definition be a hobby computer :p


Made by professionals for professionals

In fact (to my surprise) C64 was even used to control manufacturing process at some sites... it was small, solid and reliable piece of hardware and software.

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KimmoK 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 22-Dec-2009 9:03:02
#120 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5188
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@PulsatingQuasar

If the OS tolerates bugs (without slowing down etc..), I think it's the better one and the more stable one.

To me it just seems that W7 needed some extra support from BIOS to work.
- perhaps it uses some better way to access PCI-E
- perhaps W7 is coded so badly that it crashes if PCI-E is not perfectly as M$ wants.

What ever.
I could not care less, when all my HW trouble is gone with the move to Linux on several of my HW.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
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