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      /  What's the goal?
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DoodooHead 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 6-Jan-2010 18:58:20
#41 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 641
From: Reno, Nevada, U.S.

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:
I have my own ideas about what kind of software I would like to write which could very well be outside your field of interest, but may interest others.


I think coders should follow their passion. Write something that you are interested in. Write something you and folks like you would enjoy using to do what they do.

If you are an astronomer, write something to point and slew a backyard telescope. If are a gamer, write a game. If you are a geologist write a program for geologists to use. If you are a musician write something you can use in your music. If you enjoy running large electric train set-ups, use the Amiga to switch the tracks and control the trains. This will lead to a diversity in software.

Go with what you know. Go with what you love. Others, who do what you do will be happy to have software that is written for what they are interested in.

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Caveman 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 6-Jan-2010 19:05:45
#42 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 655
From: Norway

@Hisoka999

I think that would be the best approach. User's of today,do have some expectation about what their Computer should be able to do,and without a OS that can meet those expectations,we will not prosper. Without a good foundation,a house will sooner or later fall apart.

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EmperorLongo 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 6-Jan-2010 20:31:25
#43 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2007
Posts: 174
From: Oshkosh, Wisconsin, USA

@DoodooHead

Well said.

@all

For the immediate future, I agree with those who say we should just modernize the OS and hardware. What happens will happen. But in order to compete, the OS will really need to go SMP. In any kind of Pro app, there is no substitute for raw power. Try 3D rendering or video work and you suddenly find value in multi-core CPUs. Stick with single core and the Amiga will never be a Pro machine.

At this time, there is probably still a need for a good office suite, too. I have to investigate Google Docs, but I want to bring up something that many may find dull, but which is crucial when professional writers evaluate a word processor. Most word processors seem to focus on fancy-shmancy DTP features, but pro writers want a few things; 1) It must be easy to create a simple header and automatic insert of page numbers. 2) It must, must MUST have a true Courier 12-point font. 3) It must be possible to format a page so that each page produces exactly 25 lines. This is what publishers want to see. Oddly, MS Word, on Windows, does not have a true Courier font, because MS didn't want to pay the licensing fee, so they created Courier New, a truly horrible font which is faint and a different size than true Courier, causing major headaches for writers of everything from novels to screenplays. The Mac version of Word has a real Courier and is my personal weapon of choice. The Linux version of Open Office comes with Courier 10-pitch, a nice, dark Courier whose 11-point font seems identical to Courier 12. It is clumsier than Word at making headers but is the only one I've used which produces 25 lines per page, every page, once properly formatted. Thus, a port of the Linux version of Open Office, or a good Amiga word processor with Courier and intuitive Header design, would woo me. Existing Amiga word processors -- Wordworth, FinalWriter and AmigaWriter, are not competitive, IMO, especially AmigaWriter.

And yes, I know you can buy font packages for MS Word on Windows, but it can be an expensive hassle.

End word processor rant. :D



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DoodooHead 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 6-Jan-2010 21:49:31
#44 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 641
From: Reno, Nevada, U.S.

Things are a lot more complicated then they were in the 80's and 90's. You cannot do it all yourself, ask for help. Find others who can join your team. If you don't do GUIs, find someone who does to do your GUI. If you don't tinker with hardware, get someone who will design and build what you need. If you don't know how to write a driver find yourself someone who does. If you need graphics for a game, ask for an artist. If you need music for a game, ask for a musician.

This community, though small has a diverse bunch of people who do a vast variety of things. I believe the partners you need are all here. If you have an area of expertise, offer your services to those who need you. Work together, and great things will happen.

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KaneCitizen 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 7-Jan-2010 1:09:34
#45 ]
New Member
Joined: 6-Jan-2010
Posts: 5
From: Queensland, Australia

I can definitely see some good opportunities for the
Amatuer Radio crowd with this new system if it eventuates.

SDR, DSP .... Using the Xena/Xcore Stuff
SateliteServo, Radio Antenna Motor Control, Packet/PSK31
All in the one machine sweet ...

Very Interesting indeed.

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Caveman 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 7-Jan-2010 1:41:55
#46 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 655
From: Norway

@EmperorLongo

by modernize the OS,i am sure most people here was thinking SMP among all those other things in need of a overhaul.

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DoodooHead 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 7-Jan-2010 2:46:53
#47 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 641
From: Reno, Nevada, U.S.

@KaneCitizen

Yes that's it. Now, come up with a plan for how you and a few friends can make it happen. What kind of expertise will you need? What materials will you need? Get the people, get the stuff and get it done. The Amateur Radio crowd will be elated.

Welcome to Amigaworld.net, enjoy your stay. "Only the Amiga makes it possible"

Last edited by DoodooHead on 07-Jan-2010 at 02:49 AM.

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Oscar 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 7-Jan-2010 3:08:45
#48 ]
New Member
Joined: 6-Jan-2010
Posts: 3
From: Unknown

@Birbo

The first thing is to get the development tools, SDKs and documentation in the hands of developers, professional and community, as quickly as possible. If there's support for the developers, good software will soon follow. Ship the tools along with every copy of the OS like Apple does with OS X.

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mingle 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 7-Jan-2010 3:38:46
#49 ]
Member
Joined: 17-May-2009
Posts: 32
From: Melbourne, Australia

The big problem will be, as it's been with the Amiga for a LONG time, the lack of serious apps and a very small (relatively speaking) developer community.

By the time dev tools are out there and any serious new (and groundbreaking) apps are created, the PC world would've moved on again and the X1000 will be little more than a curiosity...

I can't see any way that the new machines are going to be running much more than is currently available for OS4... And that's simply not enough...

Mike.

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JulArroyo 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 7-Jan-2010 5:57:52
#50 ]
Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2009
Posts: 31
From: Unknown

@Birbo

My two cents....

A portion of the Amiga community will simply come back, largely because they will have a modern computer with the overall Amiga experience; OS, Custom chips, etc...

I think an effort should be made to reach out to the XMOS community and bring them into the fold, much in the same way we will be joining their community. With adequate tools to support their needs, this will naturally expand the community and establish a presence in another niche market.

The focus of the platform as a whole should be in commoditizing content creation tools and workflows. For example how can the new Amiga computer be part of the music production workflow for music creation? Can we deliver a better or unique experience / process in that market at a competative price point? Can the same be done for video / film etc...

Productivity tools such as word processors, etc, will go the way of the Dodo with web services such as Goggle docs, etc. General purpose computing, e.g. web browsing and email will also suffer a similar fate with simple tablets, smart phones, etc, eating into the general computer markets.

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Birbo 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 7-Jan-2010 8:59:59
#51 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Apr-2007
Posts: 594
From: Zurich, Switzerland

Thanks to everyone for sharing your ideas.

You are right, saying, that software and hardware has to improve, to become more professional, to add better SDK-Tools, better documentation, and so on.

This is my opinion too.


The words "Fun", "Differerence" or "Speed" have been named as special attribute of the new Amiga.
But I would like to see, that future developements have a kind of an Amiga-Factor.

Example:

If we have Timberwolf or OpenOffice on the Amiga, we have a good piece of software anyone could have on other computers.

The Amiga-Factor should be Fun or Difference-> like "remembering when computing was fun" ......

We could add this "Amiga"-Factor to software.


Let's share any ideas, what the "Amiga"-Factor could be.


My suggestion:

Adding special Amiga-Buttons to any future software for:
- Funny special-Effects
- New Productivity-Tools
- Sharing common libraries between Software (Text, Images, Video, etc.).
- Using common viewers (PDF, Images, Videos)
- Integrated Community-Tools (Forums, FAQs, Messaging etc.)
- Wiki


What do you think about that?

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ErikBauer 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 7-Jan-2010 10:37:57
#52 ]
Super Member
Joined: 25-Feb-2004
Posts: 1141
From: Italy

@Birbo

Good idea.
Surely any software ported to Amiga should benefit from these things:
- Datatype Support
- Arex Support
- Being able to be run in a separate screen

I love the Community tools and the Wiki idea.

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DAX 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 7-Jan-2010 10:56:32
#53 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@Birbo
Long story short: why would Apple make PCs if anything you can do on a Mac can be done on Windows just the same (and the latter has 90% of the World's market).

If you think your offering is unique and alternative, I say go for it (who cares if there is someone else already doing it).

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Birbo 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 7-Jan-2010 11:38:25
#54 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Apr-2007
Posts: 594
From: Zurich, Switzerland

@DAX

You are absolutely right.

But there is a good thing about Apple. They have a strong strategy in developing software.

Look at the apps (from Apple or not). Almost all apps for OS X look clean, fancy and can simply make use of iTunes-Library, iPhoto-Library, iMovies, iDVDs and so on.

Apple gives to the Developer a certain frame. It is true, that you'll lose a certain freedom of coding - you're apps will work in a manner how Apple want it to work. But all in all I think, that's a good thing.


My proposal: I will set up a website with information and sources about Software-Development on the AmigaOS. What do you think?

Or is such a Website already online?

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brotsalami 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 7-Jan-2010 12:00:46
#55 ]
Member
Joined: 28-Jan-2009
Posts: 36
From: Unknown

@everybody

becasue I am a little bit outside of the Amiga community and have used Macs and Winooze and Linux machines for work and private, I can add this comment to the discussion.

Apple: Very usable system for people that don't care about the hardware or software. It just has to do what you want, in a very intuitive kind of way.

Linux/Unix: can do almost everything, but you have to work in the system to achieve it. That is not a task for casual computer users and that is the main reason linux was never succesful.

Windows: is a mixture of both ways. Can do a lot things by itself and there is always a free programm that can do what you want. And if you want to, you can mess around in the system also.
It can do everything, but not very good.

Amiga: is almost dead. The existing community knows a lot about the Amiga OS and how to solve problems within the system. Almost like a bunch of Linux geeks. Therefore they do not remember what user friendliness is, sometimes.
To achieve the user friendliness that Apple has, and the flexibiliy of Linux/Unix a miracle has to happen.

If it would be in my responsibility I would go for neither of this roads. I would try to push Amiga into the science & industrial markets first. The Xena chip would be great for this, too.
There are people with a high computer knowledge, that are not scared by an unknown OS, and there are people with money. A combination you are not going to find with "regular" computer users.

This money can than be used to improve the OS and add more software, which will bring the Amiga closer to Apple and Linux.

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DAX 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 7-Jan-2010 12:59:52
#56 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@Birbo
There is http://utilitybase.com/ but I believe that it needs better visibility to outside crowds, things should be re-organized to be more welcoming for potential new-comers (wanna make such site for programmers just back to Amiga?).

Tool wise there are several initiatives, like the just announce Neat, AmiDarkEngine (similar to Dark GDK now, should evolve into something similar to Dark Basic in the future) and most importantly the upcoming Codebench (which the author consider to be quite a major update and will come out with 4.1.1, the latter will also bring new classes and so on) but of course Amiga is just starting again so what will be done in this regard (available know how, tools etc.) from now on will be much important.

We need great tools but also a way to spread the know how, that is both welcoming and easy to "find" for potential new-comers.


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KimmoK 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 7-Jan-2010 13:16:09
#57 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@brotsalami

I bite!

>Apple: Very usable system for people that don't care about the hardware or software. It just has to do what you want, in a very intuitive kind of way.

And if you prefer to do things in your way, Apple is a nightmare. (just removed OSX from my apple HW)
And OSX has poor responsiveness

>Linux/Unix: can do almost everything, but you have to work in the system to achieve it. That is not a task for casual computer users and that is the main reason linux was never succesful.

Linux market share is growing. It becomes more easy to use, but slowly.
Multimedia and native games are not that easy to get/handle on Linux.
Linux has poor responsiveness.

>Windows: is a mixture of both ways. Can do a lot things by itself and there is always a free programm that can do what you want. And if you want to, you can mess around in the system also. It can do everything, but not very good.

Windows has difficulties if it needs to stand alone (multimedia kiosk systems) or to handle realtime needs.Windows tend to become very slow very fast.
And Windows has very poor responsiveness, and it fluctates a lot in runtime.

>Amiga: is almost dead. The existing community knows a lot about the Amiga OS and how to solve problems within the system. Almost like a bunch of Linux geeks. Therefore they do not remember what user friendliness is, sometimes. To achieve the user friendliness that Apple has, and the flexibiliy of Linux/Unix a miracle has to happen.

I do not agree. There's a lot to do, though.

Users are not Apple. We can do better by giving options.
There could be built an option that gives the user even far more simplified way to use computer than what apple does.
But we must also offer the current power user interface.
We could also have "imitate Windows" for people that demands everything to be like in windows.

"AOS is like rubber" (as it was taught to Linus Torwalds), it can be made to do anything/everything, it has very little amount of limitations, it can handle also realtime tasks. (but we need more SW, JAVA, etc.)

>If it would be in my responsibility I would go for neither of this roads. I would try to push Amiga into the science & industrial markets first. The Xena chip would be great for this, too.
>There are people with a high computer knowledge, that are not scared by an unknown OS, and there are people with money.

I agree on that!
But I think we must be carefull to not to limit ourself too much.

>A combination you are not going to find with "regular" computer users.
>This money can than be used to improve the OS and add more software, which will bring the Amiga closer to Apple and Linux.

Regular users
-want trouble free web surfing. OWB almost gives that. Firefox gives that. (with JAVA!)
-want office compatibility (OO offers that)
-some gaming possibilities (we are ok when hard core gaming is not required)
-stability (we have extra challenges in this untill we get MP)
-easy to learn and understand environment (not necessarily Apple way)

I think with retro market we would have the best possibilities to get close to regular users fast. Amiga joysticks (with emulator SW) are already in local PC shops.

Last edited by KimmoK on 07-Jan-2010 at 01:17 PM.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
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KimmoK 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 7-Jan-2010 13:28:33
#58 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@DAX

Initially we should have big shiny utilitybase link on AW.net (and on amiga.org).




And we should have something @ amiga.com to indicate that it's not it.

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Birbo 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 7-Jan-2010 13:38:18
#59 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Apr-2007
Posts: 594
From: Zurich, Switzerland

@DAX

Yes I know utilitybase very well. It's a good website.

Sorry, I was not very clear about my idea.

My idea is to write some guidelines about programming on the amiga (not on my own, but with the help oft the community).

This guidelines should not be about how to code, but be a help to harmonise the "look and feel" of future Amiga-Software.

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brotsalami 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 7-Jan-2010 14:03:25
#60 ]
Member
Joined: 28-Jan-2009
Posts: 36
From: Unknown

@KimmoK

Quote:
I think with retro market we would have the best possibilities to get close to regular users fast. Amiga joysticks (with emulator SW) are already in local PC shops.


I honestly think that is a good and reasonable idea. If I understand the concept of "Xena" correctly it could be used to emulate all kind of classic computers. Kind of a hardware Amiga Forever, Frodo (and other emulators) mix up.

Imagine: You load a c64 conifguration into Xena, play Summer Games on a second display, kill the c64 and spin of Burntime on an Amiga1200 instead.... ( I would miss the tape loading time, though)

If this machine is coming and the price is anyhow affordable, than I might finally come back to my old girlfriend.

I only need a decent browser, GIMP, Scribus, Picasa, a GnuGo GUI (the board game) and a music library. OO would be nice, so would be a small case...

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