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      /  What's the goal?
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KimmoK 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 7-Jan-2010 14:08:40
#61 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@Birbo

We should have environment variable of the user's desires about the look & feel should be allover the OS+applications.

EASY - minimal amount of options, default settings are ready, runtime help, autopilot, wizards, etc...
SIMPLE - simplified AOS way
NORMAL - the Future AOS way
AMIGAN - the way Normal Amiga Odltimer would use it
ADVANCED - more options available
PROFESSIONAL -
DEVELOPER -
(WINDOWS - imitation)
(OSX - imitation)
(Gnome - imitation)

And then a user can select in installation and in prefs how the system behaves.

And SW developers know by reading that variable, what kind of behaviour the user wants and they can tune the interface accordingly.

Last edited by KimmoK on 07-Jan-2010 at 02:14 PM.

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KimmoK 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 7-Jan-2010 14:13:39
#62 ]
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Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@brotsalami

For application desires, I think in many cases people do not need any exact SW, but a compatible and easy/identical to use SW (also, if it is better than the previous one, it's a +).

For example, if user prefer Gnome gui, the photo editing application can try to mimic GnomeGimp GUI. And if user prefers M$ Paint, then DPaintNG would mimic/imitate M$ Paint GUI. (ofcourse they should remind that Amiga GUI would anyway be best supported GUI )

Last edited by KimmoK on 07-Jan-2010 at 02:15 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 07-Jan-2010 at 02:15 PM.

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MrFancyPants 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 7-Jan-2010 20:30:58
#63 ]
Member
Joined: 28-Jun-2007
Posts: 45
From: Sweden

@Birbo

Apple focused on getting their computers into universities, and I believe it worked. Focusing on especially Real-time applications could be a way of creating a niche market. The XCore should give the Amiga a great advantage.

Breaking into games is hard, but I don't think it's impossible. Console gaming doesn't have the creative modding community that desktop gaming has, and I think that desktop gaming is limited just by the fact that it is done on desktop computers so it doesn't reach out to a wider customer base.
If the Amiga could combine the wider customer appeal of console gaming with the creativity of the modding community, I think it has a chance of breaking into the game market.

Last edited by MrFancyPants on 07-Jan-2010 at 08:31 PM.

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gerograph 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 7-Jan-2010 21:23:24
#64 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Dec-2007
Posts: 901
From: Moers - Germany

Ok, folks.... a few ideas here. I think all of us agree in

1. New Hardware will be very flexible (as far as I understand), and will support creativiness of the programmers/coders later on (sometimes already now) of the users.

2. AOS is very fast/responsive and basically easy.... (O.k. lacks a bit of useabiltiy for every day user - but that should't be a problem)

3. At the moment it is different to other OSes, therefore maybe fun (but this might be just our own personal "Amigainsider" view

4. The OS itself seems to be very flexible, probably because it is rather simple and has not a big "overhead". Just imagine the "portability" from AOne to AClassic, SAM and Pegasos II + the MacPPC aproach in a relativ short amount of time.

All this seems to me as it has a great potential. The Question is, where should we start ? I still think, and other do as well, it should be a nichemarket. Just think how many applications you have to have for an everydayuser.... But if you start of with say the "retro idea" --- change your Amiga in a C64, Atari, PS2 whatever on the fly -- you might have to program just a few apps and can sell, sell, sell.
Maybe the other fields mentioned are a good start as well...
I quiet like this one:

Quote:
If it would be in my responsibility I would go for neither of this roads. I would try to push Amiga into the science & industrial markets first. The Xena chip would be great for this, too. There are people with a high computer knowledge, that are not scared by an unknown OS, and there are people with money. A combination you are not going to find with "regular" computer users. This money can than be used to improve the OS and add more software, which will bring the Amiga closer to Apple and Linux.


The vision of having "Amiga Anywhere" is not a bad one, the potential seems to be there. AOS on a mobile, possible... as Mediacenter seems also possible at with performance of X1000.

AmigaOne x1000 team has to bring up a totaly usable package for one of the niche markets, this includes a "Killer App" (which means a Software specialized on the needs, might not even be a complex one like Photoshop or whatever) and the hardware plus a price which can be paid. So, people there have to say in a very short time span: "X1000 A-Eon... yep defakto Standard easy to use, reliable does what we want,.... not for wordprocessing, dbase stuff... though, but thats good... keep our special-need-system free from "overhead apps".

E.g. for wintertraining on my racingbike I use a "virtual reallity" trainer, which is basically riding through 3D slower and faster depending on your pedalling speed + uphill and downhill passages are passed to my bike as well... I wouldn't care wether I pay 200¤ more or less, if this runs fine as a package (which is not only computer and soft...). I think something like this could easily done with our new hardware... check out http://www.tacxvr.com/ for that.

But honestly, as I donnot have the system yet, I cannot judge what is the best way to go, would also take a bit of market research.

greetings gerograph


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Caveman 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 7-Jan-2010 22:35:22
#65 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 655
From: Norway

@Birbo

I think we should go for anything internet/LAN/DNLA related at first(i think this is more important than openoffice) The second goal is to bring more creative tools to this platform,then maybe ex-amigans begins to take notice too. Games would be nice,but bringing some of the big titles/companies to the Amiga is a no go. But maybe small unique titles would be the way to go(aiming at the casual gamers)

oh...bring the latest OpenGL to the Amiga,together with OpenCL,and as fast as possible(yesterday )

Porting OS4 to ARM.

Last edited by Caveman on 07-Jan-2010 at 10:51 PM.
Last edited by Caveman on 07-Jan-2010 at 10:39 PM.

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Mark76 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 8-Jan-2010 0:02:56
#66 ]
Member
Joined: 4-Jan-2010
Posts: 61
From: Leicester

@Caveman

I was watching the Amigacentric episodes of The Computer Chronicles earlier and one of the things that popped up was an animation program made by Disney (of all people) that made making your own 2D cartoons a cinch.

Now... If someone at Hyperion could persuade the guys at Pixar to do the same...

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Caveman 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 8-Jan-2010 0:43:31
#67 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 655
From: Norway

@Mark76

I remember that progy,but i don't think it's possible to persuade companies as big as Pixar,to support us in any way. Atleast not now. We are on our own now,and got to help us self prosper. I wish i could code,so i could contribute something to the Amiga. I do know a thing or two about 2D/3D graphic,but it's almost 10 years since i last time i made some pictures,and 3D objects. But maybe when i get a amigaone x1000 inhouse,my inspiration will return(which Windows pretty much killed) Then i might be useful for something

I might even have a go at C too,but my experience in that department is really lacking(only thing i ever did in that regard,was coding some coppertricks back in the amigadays,and a bad code it was to, )

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mdelaorta 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 8-Jan-2010 2:23:31
#68 ]
New Member
Joined: 2-Jan-2010
Posts: 7
From: Unknown

@steril606


Quote:
The goal should be attracting Pro users, those left back in 1994 when Commodore went upside down. Definitely the most difficult part, since you'd need companies porting their Pro-Software packages (Photoshop, Flash, Cubase, Ableton Live you know the deal) for Amiga OS. This, the will only consider if the userbase gets big enough.


I partially agree. If we have industry standard software, that would be great, but then we need to give Pro's a reason to switch to Amiga instead of staying with their trusted platforms...

Let them do things with the Amiga that they want/need to do , but that they can't do with a Mac or Win, and then you'll have them in Amigaland in no time.

Now, what would that be?

Cheers!

Mauricio

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Caveman 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 8-Jan-2010 2:30:11
#69 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 655
From: Norway

@mdelaorta

An automatic coffemaker,that feeds you with coffe every now and then,while you are doing ..erh.. nothing,since there is'nt any other apps avaible

Joke off.

Seriously,it might not be necessary to do something other platforms can't do,but maybe do the same thing, only easier,and better (iphone anyone?)

Most people seems to think that the more powerful computer you got,the better,and same goes for software. Does it make you a better writer if your pen is made of gold? Would it make you a better guitarist if you buy the most expensive guitar?

The most advanced software today(like for example Maya) will cost you an arm,and a leg,but it does'nt automatically makes you a 3D god! Depleting your wallet,is what it does...

My point is,if Amiga had software good enough,sold for a sane price,it would atleast attract some hobby user's.

Last edited by Caveman on 08-Jan-2010 at 03:08 AM.

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asymetrix 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 8-Jan-2010 3:15:15
#70 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 868
From: United Kingdom

@Thread

What we need are developer tools for rapid application development.

We need Object Oriented language in the Amiga API so developers can work with objects, eg filesystem, gui, datatypes,arexx.

How to build an editor :
use editor object
add script for automation ? + arexx or python or lua object
add reading .doc/rtf format ? + datatype object
add drawing support ? + other apps paint package object
add install support ? + install object

maybe requiring 5 lines of code for the above - thats rapid development.

Once we have the number one developer environment apps will come really fast.

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Caveman 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 8-Jan-2010 3:16:47
#71 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 655
From: Norway

@asymetrix

Agree!!!

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jcassara 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 8-Jan-2010 3:45:54
#72 ]
Member
Joined: 30-Oct-2008
Posts: 11
From: Unknown

The Amiga has been for some time a hobbyist platform that can expect dominance in none of the fields you mentioned. It long ago descended to where Mac OS Classic, OS/2, and GEOS 64/128 hold court.

Our goal, as users, should be to enjoy ourselves while we tinker with unique hardware and software. The goal of the X1000 is to make money catering to those of us who have the income to burn on this hobby. Expect no greater feats!

Eventually, the Amiga scene will be on par with today's Commodore 64 scene, where a run of 100 boards for an RS-232 interface is impressive and new software is written for fun not profit.

The trinity of Windows, Mac, and Linux has won. We lost. Just have fun while there's fun to be had on the trip down.

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Caveman 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 8-Jan-2010 3:58:27
#73 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 655
From: Norway

@jcassara

Like we are not aware of that...

BTW Desktop PC's in general is in a downward spiral,and 15 years from now,only companies,and hobby users will have some sort of Desktop PC. While the rest will have some kind of embedded hardware.

Example - In 2006 my wife bought a new laptop,and in 2008 i bought her a Asus Eee(she thought it was so cute ) In 2009 she bought a iphone. The iphone is used everyday to surf the net,and the Asus Eee does'nt do anything,except gather dust,and the laptop is only used to pay bills,and order products from store's(maybe 1 or 2 times in a month) and when it comes to me,i find my self using the PS3 quite often to read the news on internet(usually in the morning)

The web browser on PS3 is'nt that good,but it's more than good enough to be used that way,and it's easily accessible,and it boots fast. So for most people,there is soon no need for a laptop,or desktop anymore.

And if todays trend is any indication of who will be the markedleader(embedded marked,which grows bigger and bigger every day) in the future,you can exclude Microsoft,unless they come up with something people want. This war is far from finnished,and i doubt it ever will.

Last edited by Caveman on 08-Jan-2010 at 05:00 AM.
Last edited by Caveman on 08-Jan-2010 at 04:39 AM.
Last edited by Caveman on 08-Jan-2010 at 04:07 AM.

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QuBe 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 8-Jan-2010 5:07:22
#74 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Dec-2006
Posts: 1075
From: Dunes of Uridia

@All

Watching the announcements at CES re-affirms my belief in two main areas of the I.T. world and where it is heading...

1] Web centric services and digital media distribution, with an emphasis on portability
2] Cheap standard hardware that can run a centric OS permitting you to access services on desktop, laptop, "slate" PC or mobile smartphone

Now whether you use Apple + iTunes or M$ + Live or Sony + PSN; the fact is people can do what they want to do online easily. They can get hold of the games (and general media such as music and movies) easily; and this media is transferable across devices running the same OS platform...

So whilst I feel Hyperion and the Acube / A-Eon combinationa are brave in trying to get the community moving again, i still feel we are lacking an overall cohesive strategy about what "Amiga" is about today.

What is "Amiga" today? I cannot define it anymore; especially after the latest M$ and Sony CES presentations.

These companies are going to link all their hardware with one "easy to use" OS across multiple devices. Sony in particular will make PSN available across all its devices too with one digital ID wallet to access content etc.

The problem is we really need radical ideas on the software side to move the Amiga platform and strategic marketing play forward, otherwise our platform will always simply stay where it is.

Now maybe the Amiga starting off niche, can, eventually, crack a wider market. If an Amiga platform is proficient in productivity, as it was before, it will always have a market and followers; but whether it can really every challenge the position of the main market players going forward is doubtful.

Through all this the community needs to keep focused and remain realistic. With out a centric services strategy and an OS that is "web friendly', it will be difficult to make any impact. No doubt TimberWolf and OWB will help the Amiga platform somewhat... but is that it... where to next?

Some additional points and observations :-

1. Hardware issues have plagued the Amiga since the day Commodore collapsed. Due to AmigaOS not running on cheaply available hardware, or variants such as ARM etc, it does make it difficult for an Amiga platform to break onto a whole host of devices. If it could it would fulfill the Amiga Anywhere ideology to some extent right?

2] New developments such as E-Book readers or Slate PC's. I guess if PowerPC versions of these hardware packages were released, AmigaOS could run on them if coded for.

Usually it is an OS + hardware tie up. But how realistic is that with the current pace of development? Gadgets are a great way to get a software platform such as AmigaOS in front of people, even if it is cut down and "only" permits the reading of E-books, it still powered by Amiga right?

3] Apples' computers were also niche to some extent; and languished for many years within the realm of productivity. Few games, but strong on productivity suites in the graphics, audio and video fields... and YET, it took the iPod/iPhone to really popularise Apple computers and other Apple products. The attack vector was really one gadget... but that gadget was running an Apple OS platform, it performed well, it was fast (and is fast) ... and they tied up the OS + hardware platform combination WITH A WEB CENTRIC SERVICE for the digital distribution of media content...

It's not hard to imagine an AMIGA based "iPod Touch" type of device, with the Amiga brand name on it, running AmigaOS to access, purchase and download media from the web... but who will do this and where is the strategy to look into these types of ideas or possibilities.

Yes I understand you have to start from square 1, a desktop, but that seems very old now... square 1 has already past. By the time we get past the desktop to a laptop, more time will have passed and even this will not be such a strategic attack vector to use in spreading AmigaOS usage across the globe.

4] Games seem very important to people. If any new Amiga could be a decent games machine again (as well as a productivity platform) - we need web based digital distribution of games; we would need a real strategy on how to get developers back on board

We would need similar business models employed by Sony and M$, a PSN/Live version of AMINET for example. The community should get together and look at something like an "AMINET or WiiWare" type channel for digital distribution similar to STEAM. Todays developers and game companies need to see developments in these areas.

All the current Amiga vendors and developers really need to come together as a cohesive group and start to talk about how to get everyone under the same umbrella and start to professionalise AMIGA branded services and digital distribution on live - the AMIGA community needs to do this now...

Clear distinctions between Retro Amiga Products and New Amiga Products * Standardise naming conventions, i.e. what to call Amiga products officially etc * An Amiga CERTIFICATION process - officially Amiga logo with the relevant support infrastructure * Yearly developers conferences * Look at Taiwanese gadget developers; what could AmigaOS support Gadget wise in the future, if anything at all?

Q!

"i am home"

Last edited by QuBe on 08-Jan-2010 at 01:25 PM.
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Caveman 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 8-Jan-2010 5:19:37
#75 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 655
From: Norway

@QuBe

I could'nt have said it better myself. it's spot on. the interresting part,is that it looks like a shift in markedpower. I think Microsoft is struggling to keep up,while Apple and Goggle is gaining new terrain everyday. It sure looks like that here in Norway anyway.

Future prediction - A foot firmly planted in Balmers rear end

Last edited by Caveman on 08-Jan-2010 at 05:21 AM.

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QuBe 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 8-Jan-2010 5:26:05
#76 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Dec-2006
Posts: 1075
From: Dunes of Uridia

@Caveman

Hi Caveman, thanks. I just updated my post now! Have a read!

Q!

"i am home"

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Caveman 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 8-Jan-2010 5:39:03
#77 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 655
From: Norway

@QuBe

I have been thinking in the same line as you. When Apple introduces ipod/iphone some time ago,i instantly knew,that it would be successful. It was the entire package that made me think that,not only the hardware(as you are pointing at)

This is really something Amigans should look into. A simple,easy to use,and accessible device. And not to expensive. Apple had the advantage that they had enough fanboys in their camp. Would ex-amigans buy a not to expensive Amiga labeled device today? I have my doubts,but you never know.

BTW,How are PPC doing it in the embedded marked now? Is it all ARM?(looks like that to me)

Last edited by Caveman on 08-Jan-2010 at 05:48 AM.

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QuBe 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 8-Jan-2010 5:48:28
#78 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Dec-2006
Posts: 1075
From: Dunes of Uridia

@Caveman

I think they would Caveman; I would definitely...

Just imagine an IPod Touch type of device powered by AmigaOS... You can play your movies, music and it comes installed with the full collection of retro Amiga games to play right off the bat. With the iPod Touch quality screen can you imagine how Shadow Of The Best would look. Very crisp and very good I think.

The idea is to put an Amiga back in the hands of people who wouldn't have typically gone back to it. If it is a useful device and permits them to easily re-live the old days it could be very successful. Game developers could also then create applications and games for this device. An Amiga in your pocket...

That is the way to re-build and spread the Amiga brand name. It would have to be coupled with a very robust online store / media distribution system, nothing a partnership with the entertainment companies cannot solve. Its all possible I think.

A desktop attack vector seems like a very very long way around at trying to revive the Amiga. Maybe the productivity side will make an Amiga a "must have" computer again... but I doubt it, honestly... I really do :(

Q!

"i am home"

Last edited by QuBe on 08-Jan-2010 at 05:48 AM.

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Caveman 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 8-Jan-2010 5:52:46
#79 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 655
From: Norway

@QuBe

I would also bought that...no doubt (I guess my wife would to,because she like that type of games) And probably a lot of others would to


My wife is more or less addicted by Super stardust HD(bought it on PSN)

Last edited by Caveman on 08-Jan-2010 at 05:55 AM.

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QuBe 
Re: What's the goal?
Posted on 8-Jan-2010 6:00:38
#80 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Dec-2006
Posts: 1075
From: Dunes of Uridia

@Caveman

Hyperion should get together with some software partners and look at creating something like AMINET Live...

It can include movie, music and Amiga software channels...

Software companies like Apple and M$ are not really software companies exclusively anymore... they are media companies too; and that is what Hyperion needs to look at; and the rest of the community.

But the bigger Amiga companies that still operate need to start to converge and look at being represented under one umbrella so to speak, with a cohesive strategy to glue the Amiga umniverse together as one...

It is the only way... this defragmentation, is not good in the long run, there needs to one coherent official Amiga voice, brand and web centric strategy... everything else is fiddle sticks...

Q!

"i am home"

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