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      /  AOne-AOS4 Beta is here - for the betatesters
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SlimJim 
Re: AOne-AOS4 Beta is here - for the betatesters
Posted on 3-Feb-2004 10:20:23
#181 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 693
From: Uppsala, Sweden

@all

...

... Um ... I'm pretty excited about AOS4 soon being released ... That the beta testers now have the
pre-release in their hands, you know ... ?

Guys?
... Guys ... ?


.
SlimJim

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Crumb 
Re: AOne-AOS4 Beta is here - for the betatesters
Posted on 3-Feb-2004 10:23:51
#182 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Mar-2003
Posts: 2209
From: Zaragoza (Aragonian State)

@SlimJim

I think that they will sell some additional A1s when they start to distribute the prerelease

_________________
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Anonymous 
Re: AOne-AOS4 Beta is here - for the betatesters
Posted on 3-Feb-2004 10:38:01
# ]

0
0

@Hammer

I have found that the CIO tends to be hemmed in by accounts and finance who take refusing plans not only on financial grounds but also on personal grounds "I am used to Windows waaaah!"

 
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SlimJim 
Re: AOne-AOS4 Beta is here - for the betatesters
Posted on 3-Feb-2004 10:56:48
#184 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 693
From: Uppsala, Sweden

@Crumb

This is hopefully very true. Plenty of people are (up to this point, rightly so) sceptical of this
thing actually being released. The hardware is, after all, very expensive. The norm would be to
buy the hardware only after you can use it to the full extent. It's us having bought it beforehand
that are "unusual" in that sense. I would think Eyetech/Hyperion considers all units sold before
date of OS-release as being an unsuspected bonus.
It's not until after the (full) release that we will really see how much (or how little, perish the
thought) support the Amiga has to this day.
.
SlimJim

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Darth_X 
Re: AOne-AOS4 Beta is here - for the betatesters
Posted on 3-Feb-2004 11:11:15
#185 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2003
Posts: 2997
From: Vancouver Island, Canada

@Hammer

Quote:


Does any know IF there?s going to be an anti-virus controller for AmigaOS 4.0 native?


There is no try.. only do!

Virus Help Denmark

The best source in the world for amiga related antivirus help, and their website is updated regularly!

_________________
Men who have girlies in their avatars are Girliemen!

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MagicSN 
Re: AOne-AOS4 Beta is here - for the betatesters
Posted on 3-Feb-2004 11:13:09
#186 ]
Hyperion
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 666
From: Unknown

@SlimJim

>This is hopefully very true. Plenty of people are (up to this point, rightly so) sceptical >of this
>thing actually being released. The hardware is, after all, very expensive. The norm >would be to

Well, a A4000 PPC Board was, when new on the market, nearly the same price region like a complete A1 System (not only the Motherboard!) :)

I also expect that once the Prerelease is out (and more so once the final product is out) A1 sales will go up, though :)

Steffen

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Darth_X 
Re: AOne-AOS4 Beta is here - for the betatesters
Posted on 3-Feb-2004 11:28:25
#187 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2003
Posts: 2997
From: Vancouver Island, Canada

@MagicSN

Quote:

MagicSN wrote:

Well, a A4000 PPC Board was, when new on the market, nearly the same price region like a complete A1 System (not only the Motherboard!) :)

I also expect that once the Prerelease is out (and more so once the final product is out) A1 sales will go up, though :)

Steffen


Steffen, were you one of the lucky ones who got one of the first A4000 PPC cards?

I know I did, I paid between $1200-$1500 (& ram) for the card and another $450 for the 060 CPU to put in it! Lots of money spent!

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MagicSN 
Re: AOne-AOS4 Beta is here - for the betatesters
Posted on 3-Feb-2004 11:36:43
#188 ]
Hyperion
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 666
From: Unknown

@Darth_X

>Steffen, were you one of the lucky ones who got one of the first A4000 PPC cards?

Yes, I was. Actually the model I bought (150 MHz 604e + 060) was put out of production only weeks after I got it (only 180 MHz+ were produced then). But I was
still a university student at that time, and had not that much money (had already a hard time to get together THIS), so I went for the cheapest (but I did want a 060
in the system, still... well, today I would probably have given more importance to
the PPC...). BTW: This was not a developer Board, 150 MHz with full CyberstormPPC
64 Bit Memory Bus were actually produced for a short time !!!

>I know I did, I paid between $1200-$1500 (& ram) for the card and another $450 for >the 060 CPU to put in it! Lots of money spent!

See my point ? :) If you put together the system yourselves (with cheap PC case
and stuff) you get *two* AmigaOnes for that price, hehehe...

Steffen

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kgrach 
Re: AOne-AOS4 Beta is here - for the betatesters
Posted on 3-Feb-2004 14:49:41
#189 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Aug-2003
Posts: 678
From: Farmingdale NY

@SlimJim

thanks slim jim for bringing the topic back to where it should be.

OS4 is cool pre beta Alpha stages and all.

Anybody in the NYC area there will be a demo on the morning of the 14th and people can come play with AOS4 at the queens User group meeting.
Slip out in the morning. Go to the Meeting get flowers and tell the girlfriend/wife how you went everywhere looking for the perfect flowers for them that is why you were gone so long.

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SlimJim 
Re: AOne-AOS4 Beta is here - for the betatesters
Posted on 3-Feb-2004 15:07:04
#190 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 693
From: Uppsala, Sweden

@MagicSN

Quote:
>thing actually being released. The hardware is, after all, very expensive. The norm >would be to

Well, a A4000 PPC Board was, when new on the market, nearly the same price region like a complete A1 System (not only the Motherboard!) :)


No contesting that.
But my point is that AOne DO produce - or still do, if you want - a large hole in the wallet...
Therefore it's quite likely the majority hold back on purchase until they can run it as
something else than a PPC Linux box.

Time will tell, when AOS4 is released, as said. Here's hoping for a buying boom!
.
SlimJim

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kgrach 
Re: AOne-AOS4 Beta is here - for the betatesters
Posted on 3-Feb-2004 15:48:48
#191 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Aug-2003
Posts: 678
From: Farmingdale NY

@SlimJim

Not to start an Arguement.
A1 is the top of the line Amiga.

I paid more for my AMD system than my Amigaone last year.

A top of the line MAC or PC will cost you way more than the top of the line Amiga.putting it all into prospective.

Yea I know People will argue that It is not at the same Hadware Level.
but a top of the line P4 is 3.2 Ghz Extreme addition costs is $916 OEM
for the CPU alone. I know hammer is screaming about the speed difference
but that CPU represents the top of the line for WinIntel users.

You can't just count Hardware speed becuase the software on the other machines need much of that speed JUST TO RUN THE OS. So it is apples and apples in REAL LIFE. Not fake or artificial benchmarks.

The Aone is the top of the line Amiga. Not bottom not middle Top.

Also putting into even more prospective I paid a good chunk of change for my A1200 and on PPC accelerators and stuff. but the bottom line is the machine stayed currrent far longer than the multitude of PCs' I had in the meantime

If you added all my Amiga stuff together over the years and I upgrade constantly. I still paid less for my Amiga stuff then the soo called cheaper PC's.

Think I brought over six PC's in the time since I brought my PPC card
even counting the bvision,GREX and now mediator. I am still way ahead.

If you brought a PC at the same time as your PPC would that machine be even capable of booting WinXP!!!

and if you count the number of PC's brought since I brought my A1200.
486 100 Mhz. machine is long gone to the land fill. Paid three times the price of my A1200 for that PC.

your top of the line PC stays current longer than the middle of the line which goes quickly outdated or the bottom which is already outdated. So yes you can buy cheap PC's but they actually cost you more than buying one top of the line unit that has a much greater shelf life.

kgrach

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SlimJim 
Re: AOne-AOS4 Beta is here - for the betatesters
Posted on 3-Feb-2004 16:56:48
#192 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 693
From: Uppsala, Sweden

@kgrach

You are preaching to the converted. I bought an AOneXE-G4 already last summer, thankyou very much.

Anyway, the point is not how expensive it is compared to anything else, past or present,
that's a rather moot discussion.
The sole point I tried to make here is that the motherboard does cost an amount of money
big enough so that people may not be villing to spend it until AOS4 is out, and that the
release of the OS will (hopefully) throw those into a buying frenzy.

Hope that makes my point clearer.
.
SlimJim

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Hammer 
Re: AOne-AOS4 Beta is here - for the betatesters
Posted on 3-Feb-2004 20:53:29
#193 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5246
From: Australia

@DaveP

Of course they get hemmed by speciality/functional superior personnel i.e. they are bounded by their mandate.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

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Hammer 
Re: AOne-AOS4 Beta is here - for the betatesters
Posted on 3-Feb-2004 22:08:59
#194 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5246
From: Australia

@kgrach

Quote:
Not to start an Arguement.

So what's your purpose then?

Quote:

I paid more for my AMD system than my Amigaone last year.

Care to disclose the numbers? I bought my ASUS A7N8X Deluxe @ DEC 2002 (4 days before X-MAS). What was the cost of A1SE/XE mainboard again? More on CPU issue.
Note that, he ASUS brand will attract the premium prices, while their value brand is with ASrock brand.

In AUD terms, an Amiga One XE with G3 processor will cost about $~1200 (from Anything-Amiga). An AMD Athlon 64 3000/nForce3 150 (@2.0Ghz) would cost under $900 AUD (Sydney prices).

There's a hole in the AmigaOne product line. There?s nothing new in this since the Amiga4000/030 was a late arrival during the launch of Amiga4000/040 and Amiga1200/020. The Amiga3000/030 was dead in the water since it didn?t have AGA.
PS I bought an Amiga3000/030@25Mhz just before AGA based machine releases.
Amiga4000/030's competitiveness was dampened by the falling PC prices.

Quote:

A top of the line MAC or PC will cost you way more than the top of the line Amiga.putting it all into prospective.

Yea I know People will argue that It is not at the same Hadware Level.
but a top of the line P4 is 3.2 Ghz Extreme addition costs is $916 OEM
for the CPU alone. I know hammer is screaming about the speed difference
but that CPU represents the top of the line for WinIntel users.

With X86 market, there?s always a reasonable solution for every budget. The performance differential between flagchip and second/third tier products is usually about ~10 percent. Flagchip products usually represents 'rip-off'. Throwing money doesn?t really go with beckoning Linux mentality (cost sensitive).

For example; A Gigabyte GA-7N400 Pro2 is just a bit lower than GA-7NNXP (equivalent to ASUS A7N8X Deluxe line) in terms feature set i.e. the only thing missing between the two products is NV SoundStorm, a second NIC and 6 phase power regulator.

Other features was still intact i.e. GigaLan, Dual BIOS, Firewire, USB2.0, P-ATA RAID, S-ATA, NV-P-ATA, ALC650 5.1 Audio, 3Phase power regulator, AGP8X and ?etc?. Then, there?s a much lower GA-7N400-L, i.e. basic board. IF one benchmarks these three MB the performance differential is insignificant. This is not factoring in the single channel nForce2 400 (non-Ultra) motherboards.

Then you have web sites like http://www.theinquirer.net (1) looking for the next ?Geforce4 TI 4200? mentality. Can you remember the Celeron 300A's claim to fame during reign of Pentium II @400Mhz?

Reference
1. http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=13967

The real battle is with new low/mid-priced machines for mass market. The flagchip products are just for mindshare market.

PS; Via pricewatch.com ,
Intel camp, a P4 3.2 Ghz EE is now at $908, while P4 3.4Ghz is at $424.

IF someone wants to build an AMD system today that is within 10 percent of Athlon FX-51's performance at most cases(e.g. games) (using www.amdzone.com), an Athlon 64 3000+(~$211) and ECS 755(SiS755/SiS964Chipset)(~$86.96) would be a candidate solution. MS Windows XP Pro cost $~94.00. Prices was from pricewatch.com. That?s about $600~750 AUD (give or take due to the GST, middle man profit, freight cost and 'etc').

Quote:

but that CPU represents the top of the line for WinIntel users.

Careful, AMD'ers would debate that point i.e. Intel has lost control of the X86 market ever since it delayed the release of X86-64 processor. It?s a duplicated mistake that mirrors IBM?s delaying the release of a 386 based solution during mid 80s.

Quote:
You can't just count Hardware speed becuase the software on the other machines need much of that speed JUST TO RUN THE OS. So it is apples and apples in REAL LIFE. Not fake or artificial benchmarks.

You call Cinema 4D, OpenSSL, Quake2, Quake 1 benchmarks fake? Note that your Classic Amiga wouldn't be able run the latest games (e.g. DirectX8 class games).
A PC with NV25/R250, 512MB RAM and 1.5Ghz processor can still run DirectX8 games.

In relation to scanners, the mainstream users compensate by using a high volume scanners such as Canon?s 3060 scanner i.e. it?s was able to scan up to 40 pages a minute.
Quote:

Also putting into even more prospective I paid a good chunk of change for my A1200 and on PPC accelerators and stuff. but the bottom line is the machine stayed currrent far longer than the multitude of PCs' I had in the meantime (SNIP)

One should separate the X86 OS and X86 HW issues. The magnitude of HW speed leads to the running of DirectX 8 and DirectX9 class games. One can still do their basic office activities with Win95(OSR2)/WinNT 4.0(SP6), Netscape 4 and MS Office 97.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

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kgrach 
Re: AOne-AOS4 Beta is here - for the betatesters
Posted on 4-Feb-2004 3:39:36
#195 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Aug-2003
Posts: 678
From: Farmingdale NY

@Hammer

I went to to the local computer Megacenter in the states with some really low prices on PC and MAC hardware.

I went there to pick up a gigafast 4 port router EE400-R $9.99 and a couple of free ethernet cards after rebate.

while I was there I decide to check out the Mac prices as they at least use the same hardware as an AmigaOne
this is what I found

eMac G4 1.0 Ghz. with 80GB hard drive 256 Mb RAM and 17" monitor Radeon 7500 CDRW was $1099 on sale.


A1 G4XE 933Mhz $750.00 forefront (all 800's since june have shipped with 933's)
the rest of the prices I got from prices in the store.

I can send you link to store flyer so you can verify prices on Emac and the others I listed here

256mb PC133 Simple Tech $49.99
17" CRT Black Daewoo $79.99
10 Bay ATX case with 300 watt power supply 29.99
Radeon 7000 32mb card $29.99
Sound blaster Digital 27.99
Windows Keyboard $3.99
optical mouse $5.99
120 Gig WD special edition $79
Norcent CDRW 17.99

Total $1074.92 comparable to the price of the Emac G4 at One Ghz Vs 933

the Mini A1 according to Alan will be considerably cheaper BTW. Cause the number of them being made and stuff

AOS4.0 is really cool BTW.

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kgrach 
Re: AOne-AOS4 Beta is here - for the betatesters
Posted on 4-Feb-2004 3:49:46
#196 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Aug-2003
Posts: 678
From: Farmingdale NY

@SlimJim

I wasn't preaching to you slimjim. I agree with you 100%. Hopefully people will be willing to buy them once OS4.0 is out.

Most dealers I know are hanging on barely. I am lucky to have other business to generate Income.

Right now OS4.0 is easier to install on a HD then anything on the Amiga yet.
boot from floppy on A4000 stick in CD click install ten minutes later OS4.0 booting.

AmigaOne boots from CDROM goes right into install prompt. ten minutes later there is your Amigaone with AOS4.0 installed simple.

fast and easy.



Kgrach

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SlimJim 
Re: AOne-AOS4 Beta is here - for the betatesters
Posted on 4-Feb-2004 9:35:00
#197 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 693
From: Uppsala, Sweden

@kgrach

Quote:
I wasn't preaching to you slimjim. I agree with you 100%. Hopefully people will be willing to buy them once OS4.0 is out.


Good, it felt like there was a misunderstanding arising there for a second.

Quote:
Right now OS4.0 is easier to install on a HD then anything on the Amiga yet.
boot from floppy on A4000 stick in CD click install ten minutes later OS4.0 booting.

AmigaOne boots from CDROM goes right into install prompt. ten minutes later there is your Amigaone with AOS4.0 installed simple.

fast and easy.


This is very good, and not something I have heard all that much about previously. Excellent to
hear it works "out of the box", many people had problems with the OS3.5 and 3.9 installs, I
seem to recall (I never had, though).
I do suppose dual-boot with Linux is not an option at this point though (I recall hearing
indications of this, but I don't know the latest dig on it)?
.
SlimJim

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MagicSN 
Re: AOne-AOS4 Beta is here - for the betatesters
Posted on 4-Feb-2004 13:14:08
#198 ]
Hyperion
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 666
From: Unknown

@SlimJim

>I do suppose dual-boot with Linux is not an option at this point though (I recall >hearing indications of this, but I don't know the latest dig on it)?

Hmm, I do have both Amiga OS 4 and LinuxPPC installed on my AmigaOne. Though most of the time I run it under OS 4.

Steffen

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hyph-n 
Re: AOne-AOS4 Beta is here - for the betatesters
Posted on 4-Feb-2004 14:00:34
#199 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 148
From: Unknown

hey @SlimJim - i bet you didn't think this thread would get this so damn long!

What's the longest thread on the Server?

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SlimJim 
Re: AOne-AOS4 Beta is here - for the betatesters
Posted on 4-Feb-2004 14:08:48
#200 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 693
From: Uppsala, Sweden

@MagicSN

Quote:
Hmm, I do have both Amiga OS 4 and LinuxPPC installed on my AmigaOne. Though most of the time I run it under OS 4.


Brilliant! I remembered erroneously, then, I'm glad. So you can choose which to boot directly
from UBoot? Or is there some sort of boot manager as in dual-boot Linux/Windows systems?

--------------------------

@hyph-n

This is probably the longest thread I've seen in a long while that is NOT a flame war.

Apart from some five-six pages of OT Windows discussion (without deteriorating into insults
though, which I must congratulate the involved on), the thread is what it should be about --
AmigaOS4

.
SlimJim

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