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PosterThread
Manu 
Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 12-Feb-2010 20:22:49
#81 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Feb-2004
Posts: 1561
From: Unknown

@Amigamia

Quote:

Amigamia wrote:
To all the AROS fans and followers:

Why are you even fighting and arguing in here with other folks who clearly have already made up their mind about which OS they are going to use?


I usually don't care about them. But since this thread is about Aros I think it would be unpolite to not participate and answer to questions and tell them about Aros.

Quote:

If you want to ask for help or share your enthusiasm about AROS then do it the right way. There are two sites dedicated for this purpose:
AROS-EXEC
&
AROSWORLD


True. I hope anyone that tried Aros out and failed would join these sites so that the problems can be sorted out. Help bug fixing so to speak.

Quote:

Fighting on AOS is better than Linux which is better than AROS or Linux is better than this and that is so useless and unproductive in my opinion. If you want to use your time do it in the right and productive way. Help out AROS in any way you can. You don't have to be a programmer to help.


I agree 100%

Quote:

Comparing AROS with Amiga, Linux, or MorphOS is like comparing a 5 year old kid life experience with a 30 year old one. It is just not a fair comparison.


I understand what you are getting at, but I would say comparing any Amiga like OS (OS4, MOS, AROS) to Linux gives the same "5 year old vs 30 year old kid" result. It's just not fair Linux is so much more and has so much more support.

Quote:

Saying that AROS will never be better than AOS, linux and MorphOS is like telling a 5 year old kid he/she will never be anything in life and he/she will be just failure.


I feel so too, we never know what the future is. Every one of the flavours has room to grow and can become good one day. They just need time. I feel Aros has the upperhand only because it's free and has better hardware.

Quote:

While everyone is entitled to their own opinion, AROS fans don't deserve to be subject of such abuse. So don't waste your time with people who just don't want to change their mind. It's their choice.


So true. I usually don't go bashing X1000 in threads here on AW either. It's unfair against those who believe in OS4 and X1000.

Quote:

If you like AROS and you think you see future in it and you would like to help/join the AROS community then visit the sites I mentioned above. I will assure you that you will receive a better welcome than you will receive it anywhere else.


Yes please join, we do not bite

_________________
AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

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Manu 
Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 12-Feb-2010 20:26:37
#82 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Feb-2004
Posts: 1561
From: Unknown

@Tomppeli

Quote:

Tomppeli wrote:
@Al4

Because X1000 is around the corner !!!

It sure is

Quote:

(And it's unmature and lacks features.)

Well, well but we are getting them fixed and we are feeling fresh air.
that's just too.

_________________
AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

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Hammer 
Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 12-Feb-2010 20:28:33
#83 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5246
From: Australia

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:

BigBentheAussie wrote:
@Dreamcast270mhz

Ummmm.... x86 on Silicon may die, but then there's Graphene.
Big Blue Demos 100Ghz Chip
Hard to imagine this technology not being applied to the x86 architecture most prominently.

There's AMD i.e. IBM's partner on the X86 side.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 12-Feb-2010 20:38:29
#84 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1770
From: Unknown

I fighted always against x86 in the past. I collected all ppc-systems you can imagine. Man i was ####ed as Apple did the transition but now i'm using a Macbook Pro and it flies rounds about a Quad G5! Trust me : )

I'm really looking forward for the X1000 but i am afraid that this machine will eventually not be able to playback HD material smoothly. Look for example Gnash - Flash on PPC, even the official Adobe player for PPC-macs sucks.

Today i'm more universal in terms of Hardware, the essence is to be able to use all actual Media. Until now only AROS can handle hd-material smoothly (and this only on x86)

Btw. AROS exists in 64bit too. I'm happy about the progress on AROS for SAM! Try it, and if you need more power buy an Imica ore AresONE : ) sorry for this advertising

My 2 cents, or a little bit Gasoline for the discussion.

_________________
AROS Broadway - AEROS - Aminux - AmiCloud - indieGO! Appstore - AmiWallet - VAN lossless video codec - AMC Amiga media Center -KrypUnite - LibertyNet - MinX - amigaNX

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cv643d 
Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 12-Feb-2010 21:19:37
#85 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-May-2009
Posts: 262
From: Stockholm - Sweden

Lets archive this thread, then in 5 years when you have your first solid budget (1000 dollar system) dual core PPC running AmigaOS4.1.1 (thats another 150 dollars) while AROS gang have our 16 core workstation with integrated WINE running all those important apps not released on Amiga before, then we will see who still stand by such patethic claims such as a specific Amiga system is the right arian/100% pure Amiga system.

F"k it, it almost seems like MorphOS is fine with OS4 guys now, so the need to fill the blue slot goes to AROS now.

Yeah, more power, less costly is always a bad thing.. yeah its so bad, rush me a 1000 dollar system paperweight instead, you know its worth it, because it is capable to run the one pure 100% arian Amiga Workbench sources of the high elderly priests of Commdore.

We Amigans used to be better than this, we used to configure our systems how the f"k we wanted them, nobodys WB is the same they used to say, now we can do the same thing hardware wise and that is not Amiga?

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cha05e90 
Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 12-Feb-2010 21:38:57
#86 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2009
Posts: 1275
From: Germany

@cv643d

Quote:
integrated WINE


Hmm - why should I use this? I would run Windows nativley on a x86 architecture...

Quote:
running all those important apps not released on Amiga before


What apps? Word for AROS? Photoshop (AROS edition)?

_________________
X1000|II/G4|440ep|2000/060|2000/040|1000

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paolone 
Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 12-Feb-2010 21:46:47
#87 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1143
From: Unknown

@IKE

Quote:
The reason for me: To be brutally honest I took one look at: http://aros.sourceforge.net/documentation/users/installation.php If you're not a current user, take a look at it and that should give you a reasonable answer as to why the average user is not too keen on installing it on a working machine.


So, are you basically saying that choosing 2 options and click "next" for five times or so is something that scares you so much?

The right way to install aros: boot from live CD, open Tools, run InstallAROS, follow on screen instructions.

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Mr_DBUG 
Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 12-Feb-2010 22:04:35
#88 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Dec-2005
Posts: 180
From: South of Oslo

@Hans

I for sure read a lot of this site, and I am VERY interested in AROS, to the point of harddisk installing it at one time and having the IcAROS CDs downloaded from time to time .. 1.2.0 as the latest..

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IKE 
Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 12-Feb-2010 22:06:52
#89 ]
Member
Joined: 2-Feb-2005
Posts: 48
From: Southern CA

@paolone

Ah, no. I'm not saying that at all. The original question was "Why can't AROS catch on?

Here's the answer, quoted directly from the link I provided, from MY point of view:

"Although AROS can be installed to a hard drive, please be aware that the installer is known to contain bugs. It should not remove or wipe any partitions if not asked to do so, but this cannot be guaranteed. So please note that generally you should not install AROS on a working machine whose HD contains valuable data, as there is a real possibility of data loss. We take no responsibility for any data loss that occurs. Any bug reports on the installation process will however be appreciated."

For the average user do you honestly think this wouldn't make them think twice about installing it? For the record, I have absolutely nothing against AROS, or ANY Amiga-like OS for that matter. I'm just pointing out why it "hasn't caught on " for me...

IKE

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 12-Feb-2010 22:09:53
#90 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1770
From: Unknown

@cha05e90

what cv643d wanted to tell us is that it is theoretical easier to port other x86 apps (Linux,Windows) to AROS x86 than to AOS4 PPC. For example i' hoping that the upcoming Blender-port will show you the difference : )

Wine is only possible in a distant future (but not impossible) - Why you should use this? Because you wouldn't need to pay license to M$. But instead of this i would dualboot ReactOS which should be quite usable a´when it reaches 0.4

Btw you should know this to www.emumiga.com

Things are in change - sure there is no big management behind AROS BUT now there is a good communication behind the scenes between S. Jones (Imica), me and many coders working on or for AROS - so we now whats happening and we can react if it is possible to bring people together.
The more this communication evolves the faster the progress. Its not an company but it can be a big open source machinery which is just kicking ass - also everyone does it because its fun and we enjoy it. Having fun in what you are doing is a big plus : )

Now from my POV as system-seller - i'm open for MorphOS and AmigaOS 4.x on Ares Systems : )
But my personal favorite will be AROS. Every new achievement will get more people attracted -> more people attracted will get more devs on board -> this leads to more apps -> more people attracted and so on......... Thats the plan and i try to boost it as god as possible.

_________________
AROS Broadway - AEROS - Aminux - AmiCloud - indieGO! Appstore - AmiWallet - VAN lossless video codec - AMC Amiga media Center -KrypUnite - LibertyNet - MinX - amigaNX

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clusteruk 
Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 12-Feb-2010 22:14:45
#91 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2008
Posts: 1544
From: Marston Moretaine, England

@whose

Quote:

No, its absolutely fair to call it propaganda. People like clusteruk are changing their "arguments", as soon as former "arguments" are proven wrong by reality. First, he and others advocated the "x86 hardware will make us winners in all cases!" idea. Now he says, that people who didnt advocate the x86 idea and still dont advocate it, should stay behind AROS to make the x86 idea a winner, although it still doesnt win. And of course he "forgot" to mention that his former "argument" was a failure. Thats a propaganda method, plain simple.


What does all that mean.

Why am I being called dishonest when all I try and do is encourage users of all Amiga flavors to support each other. I am not a business making money from Amiga or Aros, this is a hobby no more. I spend my beer money on Aros development instead of well beer.

I personally prefer Classic Amiga's and Aros as Aros in my opinion runs my 68k software well and faster. I do not say one is better than the other. If you enjoy your system great, just do not throw accusation around that i am saying things I am not.

If it was not for the fact that a large number of AOS4 users have been very supportive to Aros I would feel like an outcast. But I do not, I feel I am part of a great platform that is on a very serious roll.

You enjoy your Amiga's and I will enjoy my Amiga's.

Steve

Last edited by clusteruk on 12-Feb-2010 at 10:15 PM.

_________________
Amiga 1000, 3000D Toaster, Checkmate A1500 Plus
http://www.checkmate1500plus.com/

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paolone 
Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 12-Feb-2010 22:32:47
#92 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1143
From: Unknown

@whose

Quote:
IMHO, AROS had a very different problem all the time (different to most arguments used here), and this problem was (and still is) lack of a real strategy. From my POV, the AROS development still looks like a headless search for a niche that no other AOS incarnation has occupied already. Sometimes AROS people try to catch up with actual hardware development on the x86 platform, another time they try to get Classic Amigans into their boat, another time they think its best to port as many more-or-less useful Linux/Unix applications and utilities to the AROS platform and so on. They jump from one construction site to another, totally ignoring that constructing a "building" wont work, if you try to construct it without a well-defined and senseful plan in the background and if you build every single floor at a different place.


You call it 'problem', I call it 'great thing'. The best thing about AROS is that there isn't a plan which leaves somebody out, but freedom instead. Bad thing about freedom is that it is really difficult to understand by itself, good thing about freedom is that... well, anyone can bring AROS wherever he/she wants, it's just matter do download the sources and add whatever they want to it. You'll see people like Deadwood bringing full MESA (OpenGL) compatibility and modern hardware 3D acceleration, and in the same time people like Oliver trying to integrate UAE as much as possible: a step in the future, a step in the past. And.. well... you've repeated the word 'hysteria' I don't know how many times... maybe you'd be the one to chill down...

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paolone 
Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 12-Feb-2010 22:50:44
#93 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1143
From: Unknown

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:
I would much rather see a decent kickstart replacement. While I have Amigaforever kicking around somewhere, I would much rather it was only optional, for getting stubborn classic software to run. Mind you, with the proposed UAE bounty would OS3.x applications actually require OS3.x? Is there not a 68k implementation of AROS that could be run instead? If we could eliminate all the proprietary dependencies for running classic software AROS would be stellar.


I'm not so fond of this Kickstart replacement urgency. I never thought AROS should necessarily run old AmigaOS applications, because I simply don't think they are still valid solutions when - sorry, my friends - alternatives on other systems (being them Linux on x86, MacOS X or Windows) are far better and more modern. I've always seen the 68K apps legacy as something that people just want, but that just doesn't really NEED afterall. So it's great that someone puts his efforts achieving UAE integration, but I'd really prefer to see newer, more modern applications being ported or written from scratch on AROS, than live on archaic programs of a glorious past.

Then, I prefer people spending less than 10 euros to buy the value edition of Amiga Forever, than thinking to the few AROS developers spending their lives trying to catch binary compatibility with... uh... iBrowse or Deluxe Paint? Amiga Forever costs less than a single iPhone game, it's an Amiga licensed product and it's also a good link to the community. And people at Cloanto are really nice, so why get rid of them?

Last but not least, I really prefer giving old software to UAE, than try to mimic what other AmigaOS successors have done on PPC hardware: all in all, UAE emulates the whole Amiga architecture and can run any kind of software, even the one that banged the hardware. For instance, this allows me to run my favourite Amiga games on a window of my Icaros netbook, while OWB opens a webpage and wookiechat allows me to stay in touch with my friends. So maybe 68K support will be less 'natural' but much, much more affordable.

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paolone 
Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 12-Feb-2010 22:56:16
#94 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1143
From: Unknown

@Dreamcast270mhz

Quote:
In response to the comments made about PPC being slow, do you really need that much speed? The G5 anyways executes instructions on par with today's modern CPUs. X86 is going to fail in about a decade, once this era of computer ignorance wears off (Talking about the general population) and it shows the poor quality of x86. The x86 has already reached a wall of about 4ghz stock. Show me an x86 stock clocked at 4.2 ghz and I rest my case. ALL of my PPC machines are over 5 years old, but they run 6 trillion times as reliably as any x86 box I have. Once windows fails, intel will be next and AMD will move to the POWER or ARM architecture.


yes... yeeess...

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gonegahgah 
Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 12-Feb-2010 23:12:19
#95 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Dec-2008
Posts: 148
From: Australia

@Hisoka999

One of the things I like about the Amiga OS, that is lacking from both Linux & BeOs, are unlimited screens. Both of those require the number of screens to be manually set.

I don't know what other limitations there are in this similar vein. Linux seems to have a million files to cope for the possible inclusion of extra drives, etc. The Amiga just recognises an extra drive automatically.

I don't have RiscOS on my PC. It doesn't seem to be public licence.
I have used it on an Archimedes so I do have some familiarity with it. The major problem I had with RiscOS, which was clean and fast, was that it required manual allocation for the different resources. For example, you could go into the memory allocator and change how much memory was available for sprites, for fonts, for screens, etc. Instead, the Amiga just grabs memory from only two pools (chip & fast), so there is none of the manually mucking around as there was on the Archimedes if one resource couldn't get enough memory.

Anyone else know of any more such differences.

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paolone 
Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 12-Feb-2010 23:13:46
#96 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1143
From: Unknown

@IKE

Quote:
Ah, no. I'm not saying that at all. The original question was "Why can't AROS catch on? Here's the answer, quoted directly from the link I provided, from MY point of view: "Although AROS can be installed to a hard drive, please be aware that the installer is known to contain bugs. It should not remove or wipe any partitions if not asked to do so, but this cannot be guaranteed. So please note that generally you should not install AROS on a working machine whose HD contains valuable data, as there is a real possibility of data loss. We take no responsibility for any data loss that occurs. Any bug reports on the installation process will however be appreciated." For the average user do you honestly think this wouldn't make them think twice about installing it?


You're missing the point. We discourage installing AROS on production machines (these ones being any computer with valuable datas on) because we aren't so fool to treat our w.i.p. code as final, stable and perfectly reliable. AROS is *still* a operating system for smarter users, not for average ones. That's why I started the Icaros thing, that's why people like ClusterUK and PhoenixConsole are creating dedicated systems: bring AROS to a wider audience, eliminating most issues users risk to face downloading the nightly builds.

We also haven't big companies behind us and we're not companies that can refund people if something goes wrong. I, for Icaros, always say that it's free, you download and install it 'as is', on your own risk. But generally installing AROS doesn't nuke your partitions and doesn't delete your data.

Last edited by paolone on 12-Feb-2010 at 11:18 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 12-Feb-2010 23:19:35
#97 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@cv643d

Quote:
F"k it, it almost seems like MorphOS is fine with OS4 guys now


Way not we share some things, so only logical that we agree on some things.

MorphOS and AmigaOS4 are commercial operating systems.
MorphOS and AmigaOS4 runs on PowerPC.

Some even have MorphOS and AmigaOS4 installed on the same computer.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 12-Feb-2010 at 11:22 PM.

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paolone 
Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 12-Feb-2010 23:24:48
#98 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1143
From: Unknown

@Al4

Quote:
AROS could be a proper alternative to Windows. AROS and linux are both free. But, linux has lots of graphics tearing on watching videos and is slow for certain things. AROS doesn't have either of those issues. Therefore, it could be the alternative to Windows in the future, in a way linux can't.


AROS is *already* an alternative to Windows, at least on my netbook: when I turn it on just to surf the web and do basic tasks, I don't run Windows anymore but I run Icaros instead. The difference is about 40 seconds less to reach the web.

Said so, I never thought Icaros can be an alternative to Windows or Linux or MacOSX, simply because those OSes have resources Icaros and AROS will never have, and that's all. AROS, however, like other Amiga flavours, has something which others haven't: the Amiga heritage and philosophy. Which may lack of many important modern features, but it is still alive and - judjing by sites like this - kickin'. I prefer do things the Amiga way, and AROS let me do that on the hardware I own, which costs much much less than present - and future - nice PPC platforms, and it is already more powerful.

Last edited by paolone on 12-Feb-2010 at 11:26 PM.

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phase5fan 
Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 13-Feb-2010 9:41:44
#99 ]
Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2009
Posts: 73
From: Unknown

Both the Amiga OS 4 and MorphOS have original MUI compiled from original sources,
working just like MUI on the Amiga Os 3.x.

Amiga OS 4 has Picasso96 being with us since 1997 so for 13 years.
Tested first by a few thousand people having graphics cards in the Classic Amiga.
Then tested by tens of thousands of people in the UAE.
Then again tested by several thousand people in the Amiga OS 4

MorphOS has CyberGraphX being with us since 1995 and thus already 15 years.
Tested first by a few thousand people having graphics cards in the Classic Amiga.
Then again tested by a few thousand people in MorphOS.

Because it was tested over the years by tens of thousands of people,
we are assured that both Picasso96 and CyberGraphX work exactly the same way as the original graphics.library on the Amiga Os 3.x.

Both the Amiga OS 4 and MorphOS have the same GUI made from the same original sources as the Amiga OS 3.x.
At both the graphics libraries are compatible with the Amiga OS which has been proven by many thousands of people testing it for many years.

AROS has not that.
Amiga OS clone which is perhaps twice as fast with the fastest PC,
but is incompatible is obsolete and redundant.

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Manu 
Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 13-Feb-2010 9:55:21
#100 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Feb-2004
Posts: 1561
From: Unknown

@phase5fan
Quote:

but is incompatible is obsolete and redundant.


Sorry that's not true. Wookie chat works fine on all Amiga-like. Cinnamon writer is reported to work fine too, so it can't be totally incompatible.

Last edited by Manu on 13-Feb-2010 at 10:06 AM.

_________________
AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

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