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      /  What is XMOS on the X1000 good for?
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PosterThread
Mechanic 
Re: What is XMOS on the X1000 good for?
Posted on 27-Feb-2010 18:15:58
#141 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Jul-2003
Posts: 2007
From: Unknown

@Mechanic

OOPS!

Scratch that. Wrong Xmos. Looks like Nemo is using 128 pin package.


Still, if only 62 of the Xmos pins are connected to the 8x slot there
would be room for a 1x card/bus. Or something.

Last edited by Mechanic on 27-Feb-2010 at 06:33 PM.

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KimmoK 
Re: What is XMOS on the X1000 good for?
Posted on 27-Feb-2010 18:38:15
#142 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@Jupp3

Perhaps.

But if it is possible with standard x1000, it would be nice extra.
(no killer feature, granted)

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
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QuikSanz 
Re: What is XMOS on the X1000 good for?
Posted on 27-Feb-2010 18:59:48
#143 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2003
Posts: 1236
From: Harbor Gateway, Gardena, Ca.

@Mechanic,

Looks like these XMOS cards are connected/controlled by JTAG. They even have a USB to JTAG adapter they sell for $50. One less thing for us to buy.

Chris

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Mechanic 
Re: What is XMOS on the X1000 good for?
Posted on 27-Feb-2010 19:32:44
#144 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Jul-2003
Posts: 2007
From: Unknown

@QuikSanz

yeah, was thinking maybe USB to Xena because A-eon website says 10 USB ports,
but it looks like 8 on the Nemo board. Where are the other 2 ?

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QuikSanz 
Re: What is XMOS on the X1000 good for?
Posted on 27-Feb-2010 19:54:57
#145 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2003
Posts: 1236
From: Harbor Gateway, Gardena, Ca.

@Mechanic,

Looks like 1 is on the JTAG, Maybe the other is on one of the other 2 slots.

Chris

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Karlos 
Re: What is XMOS on the X1000 good for?
Posted on 27-Feb-2010 22:13:56
#146 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 4394
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@vidarh

Quote:

vidarh wrote:
@Karlos

Quote:
Or for a fraction of the price, you can get a GTX260 and have:


.. which is all very nice if your problem can be easily vectorized. Not so nice if there are large number of interdependencies between different parts of your data.


So, how is an array of XMOS processors different in this regard? Unless I've badly misunderstood what the XMOS does, both approaches seem to follow a "scaling through parallelisation" approach.

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QuikSanz 
Re: What is XMOS on the X1000 good for?
Posted on 27-Feb-2010 23:45:33
#147 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2003
Posts: 1236
From: Harbor Gateway, Gardena, Ca.

@olegil,

Yup, your right. Found this.

"To accompany 'Xena', we have 'Xorro', a new slot using an industry-standard PCIe x8 form factor to give access to the 'Xena' IO. This will be the route to Xena's 64 IO lines, which are dynamically configurable as input, output, or bidirectional. 'Xorro' will allow bridging Xena to external hardware for control purposes, to internal systems, or to other Xcore processors."

So that would many pins left over for who knows what?

Chris

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persia 
Re: What is XMOS on the X1000 good for?
Posted on 1-Mar-2010 21:06:33
#148 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Jul-2009
Posts: 1059
From: Unknown

@QuikSanz
Great so you can put wheels on your ¤1000+ machine and have it drive around the room!

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QuikSanz 
Re: What is XMOS on the X1000 good for?
Posted on 1-Mar-2010 22:53:38
#149 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2003
Posts: 1236
From: Harbor Gateway, Gardena, Ca.

@persia,

No, no robotics here. I'm looking for something more useful that just a toy. A controller / monitor for a solar grid tie system maybe. I'll think of something good believe me.

Chris


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persia 
Re: What is XMOS on the X1000 good for?
Posted on 2-Mar-2010 15:55:17
#150 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Jul-2009
Posts: 1059
From: Unknown

@QuikSanz

Everything I read about XMOS has it doing stuff by itself, why does it need the X1000 tied to it, seems to me that's defeating it's whole purpose?

Last edited by persia on 02-Mar-2010 at 03:55 PM.

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Zylesea 
Re: What is XMOS on the X1000 good for?
Posted on 2-Mar-2010 17:45:26
#151 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2263
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@persia

Quote:

persia wrote:
@QuikSanz

Everything I read about XMOS has it doing stuff by itself, why does it need the X1000 tied to it, seems to me that's defeating it's whole purpose?

It doesn't need the X1000 attached. It is a marketing stunt...

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Hans 
Re: What is XMOS on the X1000 good for?
Posted on 2-Mar-2010 20:07:17
#152 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 5066
From: New Zealand

@persia

Quote:

persia wrote:
@QuikSanz

Everything I read about XMOS has it doing stuff by itself, why does it need the X1000 tied to it, seems to me that's defeating it's whole purpose?


A sound card chip doesn't need to be tied to a motherboard, yet many of them are soldered to motherboards.

People have given various suggestions of what the XCore chip on the motherboard could be used for, and why it helps for it to be on the board. You have chosen to ignore all of them. It's pretty clear that you're just going to continue repeating "why put the XMOS chip on the motherboard?" ad nauseum, regardless of what other people say. I don't think that you're genuinely interested in what it is good for; you're just interested in pushing your "it's stupid" agenda. This may sound harsh, but this has gone on in multiple threads on multiple discussion forums for weeks now. It's getting really old.

Hans

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QuikSanz 
Re: What is XMOS on the X1000 good for?
Posted on 2-Mar-2010 20:12:07
#153 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2003
Posts: 1236
From: Harbor Gateway, Gardena, Ca.

@Zylesea,

Some of the things I'm thinking of will need to be either adjusted/modified or manually switched on the fly. In such cases it will need to be attached, I would want to be able to graphically monitor systems anyway.

Chris

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KimmoK 
Re: What is XMOS on the X1000 good for?
Posted on 2-Mar-2010 20:14:33
#154 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@Hans

My thoughts exactly.


(other than that, if some extra thing had to be put on the motherboard, xcore is perhaps the best option & inline with PCI. xcore86 with 1Gb RAM would also have been nice, just IMHO.)

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
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Zylesea 
Re: What is XMOS on the X1000 good for?
Posted on 2-Mar-2010 21:32:00
#155 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2263
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@QuikSanz

Quote:

QuikSanz wrote:
@Zylesea,

Some of the things I'm thinking of will need to be either adjusted/modified or manually switched on the fly. In such cases it will need to be attached, I would want to be able to graphically monitor systems anyway.

Chris



If you need interaction with a host, connect an XMOS by usb or pci or i2C or #?.
There is just no need to solder it onboard. Even less since you need additonal hardware for actual applications anyway. And what's more probable get an attractive price: an adaptor w/o one 8 US$ chip for an ultra tiny market (read: X1000) or a device including an 8 US$ chip for a huge market (read: virtually eery of the more than a billion pcs *plus* a handful of Amigas...
From the technical POV it is more or less stupid to include the chip to a geeral purpose board. Thus, it can be only for marketing to detract from other weaknesses and/or high price. Sorry to say so, but the maneuver is easy to spot.

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Zylesea 
Re: What is XMOS on the X1000 good for?
Posted on 2-Mar-2010 21:38:30
#156 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2263
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@Hans

Virtually everone uses audio on its computer for one thing (Audio I/O). It is "as is" ready to go on the board (i.e. does not need additional adaptos) . Hence it makes sense to include it on a GP mainboard. If you are an audio enthusiast you'll add up a custom audio hardware. You have two chances then: either pay the generec audio hardware or search a bard w/o audio hardware.
Also note that pcs hadn't had audio on board since ever. The market evaluated that the average user uses and asks for audio audio hardware. I doubt the same is true for the xmos chip.

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QuikSanz 
Re: What is XMOS on the X1000 good for?
Posted on 2-Mar-2010 21:53:39
#157 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2003
Posts: 1236
From: Harbor Gateway, Gardena, Ca.

@Zylesea,

I don't see USB giving me the feedback I would want and fortunately there is this thing called a Xorro slot so no soldering is necessary.

You assume a lot as far as limitations of this implementation. Myself, I'm just a bit more optimistic. You can stay away from one if you think it's some "gimmick".

Chris

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Zylesea 
Re: What is XMOS on the X1000 good for?
Posted on 2-Mar-2010 22:18:18
#158 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2263
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@QuikSanz

Sure there is no soldereing reqired. But let's take the example of a floppy controller: How do you think you'll attach the actual drive to Xorro? Strong pressing? No, you need a custom adaptor. Xorro is nothing more than the I/O pins of the XMOS chip to a connector.
And if usb won't serve you, there is pci, I2C, #? - it is really easy.

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Kronos 
Re: What is XMOS on the X1000 good for?
Posted on 2-Mar-2010 22:50:43
#159 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2553
From: Unknown

@QuikSanz

Quote:

fortunately there is this thing called a Xorro slot so no soldering is necessary.



The Xorro-slot is in a shape that you just can't go out and buy a "plug" for it. You might away with useing some PCI-E proto-board backwards (but that would require you to solder parts onto that card), but most likely you won't even get away with that requiring you to etch such a card before you can get any external IO out of that chip.

Now, if you use a standard XMOS-proto board, you might find all sorts of breakout-boards to be ordered at the same site.

@Hans
Sofar NOONE has come up with any use of the chip that didn't either:

- exceed the power of it
- can be far better&easier implemented with the host CPU or GPU
- can be far better&easier implemented with standard chips designed for that purpose
- can work just as good standalone
- can work just as good connected via USB

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QuikSanz 
Re: What is XMOS on the X1000 good for?
Posted on 2-Mar-2010 23:20:57
#160 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2003
Posts: 1236
From: Harbor Gateway, Gardena, Ca.

@Kronos,

You guys all must be psychic to know how this is implemented on the board. I would have a good laugh if a cheap proto board just for this is sold.

I will wait and see as I can see your not interested.

Chris

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