Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
6168 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
Home
Features
News
Forums
Classifieds
Links
Downloads
Extras
OS4 Zone
IRC Network
AmigaWorld Radio
Newsfeed
Top Members
Amiga Dealers
Information
About Us
FAQs
Advertise
Polls
Terms of Service
Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Ports: 1024,5555, 6665-6669
SSL port: 6697
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

Who's Online
77 crawler(s) on-line.
 16 guest(s) on-line.
 4 member(s) on-line.


DiscreetFX, AlfredOne, geen_naam, more...

You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 zzd10h:  1 min ago
 geen_naam:  3 mins ago
 AlfredOne:  3 mins ago
 DiscreetFX:  4 mins ago
 pavlor:  8 mins ago
 matthey:  9 mins ago
 Cheese:  9 mins ago
 BSzili:  15 mins ago
 amigakit:  17 mins ago
 t0lkien:  33 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga OS4 Hardware
      /  Posting from VCF Show
Register To Post

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 Next Page )
PosterThread
DBAlex 
Re: Posting from VCF Show
Posted on 20-Jun-2010 20:49:28
#161 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Jul-2006
Posts: 759
From: UK

@all

I think everyone should just wait and see what the final hardware/software & final price is like before everyone says "it's too this, it's too that..."...

Personally I liked what I saw so far, of course the debug mode will be slow, plus if graphics drivers are not written it will be even SLOWER...

ALSO, remember, this was always supposed to be expensive, this is not about creating a budget Amiga, this is about advancing the platform so we are not stuck with low end hardware forever...!

I don't think I will be able to afford one unfortunately... same with the 460EX... (being a student on a limited budget sucks )... maybe I can afford a 2nd hand Sam or A1 eventually.

I wish TrevorDick and the rest of the X1000 team good luck in what is a pretty damn cool project!

Last edited by DBAlex on 20-Jun-2010 at 08:50 PM.

_________________
A1200, 68060/64MB/1.2GB/WiFi/AGAtoCRT/OS3.9 Pegasos I, G3 600Mhz/512/9200SE/80GB WinUAE, Ryzen 5 2400G/Vega11, 8GB DDR4, 256GB SSD,Win 10 Pro x64 Amiga Forever !

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Tomppeli 
Re: Posting from VCF Show
Posted on 20-Jun-2010 20:53:00
#162 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2004
Posts: 1639
From: Home land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki

@Tommo1975

Quote:
One final question, do we know yet the impact of putting a graphics card into a SAM460

I don't think you have to disable anything from the mobo when using any add-on cards (PCI or PCIe). Use all resources simultaneously just fine. I've been using two sound cards and two gfx cards simultaneously (and two monitors) on my A1-SE just fine.

Quote:
It'd be good to know whether and what PCI-e sound cards would be supported by OS4.1 too

Currently there's drivers for at least Envy24 and Envy24HT based cards and some others in os4depot. I don't know if there's PCIe versions of those cards but didn't Sam460ex has also PCI slot.

@eastone
Quote:
do we can use pci-e sata controllers with sil 3xxx with sam 460ex

Why not.

Last edited by Tomppeli on 20-Jun-2010 at 08:55 PM.

_________________
Rock lobster bit me, so excuse me. Amiga. Never forget.
X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE
"Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
meet.mrnrg 
Re: Posting from VCF Show
Posted on 20-Jun-2010 20:53:33
#163 ]
Super Member
Joined: 5-Feb-2007
Posts: 1919
From: UK, AUS, US

@Tomas

Games have been ported.
Games have been written.
Lots of emulated Games out there.
New cutting edge games are not a critically priority right now, but they should follow through next year or so.

_________________
Quote:
Easy Pocket Money, Freelancers & Experts Online
MiniMig FPGA, Sam440 Flex 733Mhz PPC, Amiga OS 4.1 Update 2, MorphOS 2.4, Other - AmiKit + Cloanto Amiga Forever 2008 + E-UAE, AmigaSYS

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
DBAlex 
Re: Posting from VCF Show
Posted on 20-Jun-2010 20:57:34
#164 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Jul-2006
Posts: 759
From: UK

@meet.mrnrg

Also, remember:



Just switch Commodore for A-EON of course...

Last edited by DBAlex on 20-Jun-2010 at 09:00 PM.
Last edited by DBAlex on 20-Jun-2010 at 08:59 PM.

_________________
A1200, 68060/64MB/1.2GB/WiFi/AGAtoCRT/OS3.9 Pegasos I, G3 600Mhz/512/9200SE/80GB WinUAE, Ryzen 5 2400G/Vega11, 8GB DDR4, 256GB SSD,Win 10 Pro x64 Amiga Forever !

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
tap 
Re: Posting from VCF Show
Posted on 20-Jun-2010 21:05:59
#165 ]
Member
Joined: 8-Aug-2005
Posts: 16
From: Knoal in Grunn

@AmigaBlitter

Share your thoughts. Today played Goonies on my old 3,57Mhz MSX and it’s so smooth. Tried the remake on SAM440 667Mhz and (although it’s features better graphics) got disappointed. It misses the smooth gameplay and that for a relative simple game on a machine that‘s something of 200 times faster (I’m no programmer, but it looks like a less complicated piece of sw, knowing the original is 32Kb).

Same thing happened with ProTrekkr. The patterns and the music don’t match and the interface isn’t very responsive. This never was the case on the A500 with 7,14Mhz. Okay, screen resolution is higher and there might be some build-in extras but we are talking of performing a simple task of playing a mod- file of 400Kb.

For brute processing power needing app’s like Blender I fully understand the need of fast hardware but for the majority of app’s we are using today I’m missing the match between CPU speed, graphic & sound quality and system response. Again I’m no programmer but think there is a lot to gain in optimization of the code. Do we realy need Ghz monsters for yesterdays less complex sw?

Please don’t misunderstand me. I’m Amiga enthusiast for over 20 years and want the best for the community but spending another fortune on hardware to run yesterdays apps smoothly at last? No thanks. For something between 1K5 and 2K eurie I can buy a killer x86 for rendering tasks and the rest? Fire up the A2000/030 or A1200 and maybe someday there‘s an app that runs normal speed on the SAM440.

_________________
No comment.....

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Lecta 
Re: Posting from VCF Show
Posted on 20-Jun-2010 21:08:52
#166 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 10-Apr-2003
Posts: 139
From: Italy

@Tommo1975

Quote:
One final question, do we know yet the impact of putting a graphics card into a SAM460 - it'll disable the graphics, but will it also disable the onboard sound? Both the graphics and sound are handled by the same chip are they not, so theoretically, both should be disabled?


You can put a Graphic card into the Sam460ex and still use the onboard sound. Indeed you can still use also the onboard graphic if you connect two monitors to your Sam.

_________________
Stefano Guidetti
AmigaOS 4 Translator & Betatester

AmigaOneXE G4@1Ghz 2GB RAM Radeon 9000 PRO 128MB
Sam460ex@1,1GHz 2GB RAM Radeon X1550 PRO PCI-E
Both running AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6 (BETA)

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Boot_WB 
Re: Posting from VCF Show
Posted on 20-Jun-2010 21:17:26
#167 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@Lecta

Good to know that, thanks.

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Spectre660 
Re: Posting from VCF Show
Posted on 20-Jun-2010 21:19:27
#168 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-Jun-2005
Posts: 3889
From: Unknown

@Lecta

Wonder if we will ever see Uboot support for something like this so
Older Sam models could use PCI-E Graphics cards.

http://www.virtuavia.eu/shop/pci-32-bits-1-x-pci-express-adapter-.html

_________________
Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Lecta 
Re: Posting from VCF Show
Posted on 20-Jun-2010 21:41:49
#169 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 10-Apr-2003
Posts: 139
From: Italy

@Spectre660

Quote:

Wonder if we will ever see Uboot support for something like this so
Older Sam models could use PCI-E Graphics cards.

http://www.virtuavia.eu/shop/pci-32-bits-1-x-pci-express-adapter-.html


Well, Uboot already has support for PCI-E. If this card works with 3.3v there should be no problem. But to be 100% sure we should test it before reccomend its use.

We will buy one card and will do some tests as soon as possible and then we will report the results on ACube website.

Last edited by Lecta on 20-Jun-2010 at 09:43 PM.
Last edited by Lecta on 20-Jun-2010 at 09:42 PM.

_________________
Stefano Guidetti
AmigaOS 4 Translator & Betatester

AmigaOneXE G4@1Ghz 2GB RAM Radeon 9000 PRO 128MB
Sam460ex@1,1GHz 2GB RAM Radeon X1550 PRO PCI-E
Both running AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6 (BETA)

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Rob 
Re: Posting from VCF Show
Posted on 20-Jun-2010 21:48:54
#170 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6032
From: S.Wales

@Seiya

Quote:
there is no significative difference in performance between pci-e x16 and x4, so on a Sam460 you can connect a 4870


From my web based research the Radeon 4670 or 3850* is around the level performance you'll reach before the x4 slot will bottle out. If that is the case then a 4870 would be seriously bottle necked in the Sam460.

I hope that Acube or the dealers publish benchmarks for different PCI-e video cards once there are 3d drivers available for R500, R600 and R700 based cards. There's no point in shelling out 150 on a video card if it can only offer a few fps over a 50 card.

*3850 is the more powerful card.

@Tommo1975

Quote:
One final question, do we know yet the impact of putting a graphics card into a SAM460 - it'll disable the graphics, but will it also disable the onboard sound? Both the graphics and sound are handled by the same chip are they not, so theoretically, both should be disabled?


I doubt that adding a video card will disable the on board video or audio. Amiga OS can display different screens on different video cards. so you could have a dual monitor set up if you wanted.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
nimrod7 
Re: Posting from VCF Show
Posted on 20-Jun-2010 21:58:18
#171 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Jan-2010
Posts: 285
From: Poland

@meet.mrnrg

hey, OT : update your AmigaOS 4.1 ;)

_________________
"Marxism must abhor nothing so much as the possibility that it becomes congealed in its current form. It is at its best when butting heads in self-criticism, and in historical thunder and lightning, it retains its strength" - Rosa Luxemburg.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Tomas 
Re: Posting from VCF Show
Posted on 20-Jun-2010 22:08:53
#172 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Jul-2003
Posts: 4286
From: Unknown

@meet.mrnrg

Quote:

meet.mrnrg wrote:
@Tomas

Games have been ported.
Games have been written.
Lots of emulated Games out there.
New cutting edge games are not a critically priority right now, but they should follow through next year or so.

I appreciate the software/games that have been ported, but there is still loads lacking both in software and games department. Not everyone like platformer games or shooters for example.
You say there is cutting edge games most likely coming? How will that be possible if we dont get some decent 3d acceleration or even drivers that perform ok?

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Tomas 
Re: Posting from VCF Show
Posted on 20-Jun-2010 22:12:23
#173 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Jul-2003
Posts: 4286
From: Unknown

@tap
Quote:
Share your thoughts. Today played Goonies on my old 3,57Mhz MSX and it’s so smooth. Tried the remake on SAM440 667Mhz and (although it’s features better graphics) got disappointed. It misses the smooth gameplay and that for a relative simple game on a machine that‘s something of 200 times faster (I’m no programmer, but it looks like a less complicated piece of sw, knowing the original is 32Kb).

Yeah.. it is completely unplayable on my Sam as well. Is kinda funny how even the ECS chipset would have done the job better with such types of games.
People say it is possible to get same performance out of a next gen amiga with no jerking, vsync issues and so on and yet i havent even seen a demo or intro that handles even txt scrolling smoothly.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
ChrisH 
Re: Posting from VCF Show
Posted on 20-Jun-2010 23:08:19
#174 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@SHADES
It's obviously not worth arguing with you, when you say ridiculous stuff like:
Quote:
SAM can't compete with my OS3.9 Win UAE computer

OS3.9 was nice when it came out, but it simply doesn't compare at all to OS4.1, no matter how fast a CPU it is run on. Seems you share the same, ummmm, "quirky viewpoint" (*) as Umisef

(* = this is me being polite)

Quote:
Why oh why the hell didn't they pick a standard Intel board or something ad port like that.

Sigh. Because you wouldn't be able to run any of our existing PPC software (and quite possibly none of the 68k software either), at least without vast sums of money that they don't have.

Quote:
SAM is totally under powered

Again proving it isn't worth even trying to debate with you, as you're talking about things you obviously know nothing about. OS4 runs on my 667Mhz 512MB Sam440 quite nicely, thank-you-very-much. Sure, a bit more speed for some things would be nice, but it's no way "totally underpowered" unless you only want to use it to play multi-player Quake 3 (which would be silly).

Last edited by ChrisH on 20-Jun-2010 at 11:26 PM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
I can usually be found on www.Amigans.net (my favourite Amiga forum).
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
ChrisH 
Re: Posting from VCF Show
Posted on 20-Jun-2010 23:17:31
#175 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@Spectre660 Quote:
Will Hyperion take a gamble and fork the Amiga OS at this point ?

Quote:
How do you take advantgage of a computer with 64bit dual core processor ?
Especially when the motherboard was designed with input from the OS developers ? .
Do you take the OS from 32Bit to 64Bit and support multiple cores and more .?
This to me sounds what would be a complete MAP.

Of course they will implement SMP at some point, but that does NOT require a fork of OS4, any more than a dual-core CPU requires a fork of Windows. It may require a newer version of OS4/Windows, but that isn't a fork.

I do NOT expect them to bother using 64-bits address space, since the OS can run using 32-bits just fine, and 64-bits doesn't provide much/any advantage (without loosing compatibility to all existing software). Also they would be splitting the market, since all existing OS4 hardware is 32-bit only, it would be commercial suicide.

Last edited by ChrisH on 21-Jun-2010 at 09:36 AM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
I can usually be found on www.Amigans.net (my favourite Amiga forum).
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
meet.mrnrg 
Re: Posting from VCF Show
Posted on 20-Jun-2010 23:19:39
#176 ]
Super Member
Joined: 5-Feb-2007
Posts: 1919
From: UK, AUS, US

@nimrod7

Hi, I was upto date about 2-3 weeks ago, just never updated my signature footer.


@Thomas

Quote:
decent 3d acceleration or even drivers that perform ok
This will arrive also, although the better versions might be delivered in a way never done before.

A lot of other games are available if you use an emulator, and true not all games can be shoot-em-up. But then again how many games can people play in week these days.

Last edited by meet.mrnrg on 20-Jun-2010 at 11:22 PM.

_________________
Quote:
Easy Pocket Money, Freelancers & Experts Online
MiniMig FPGA, Sam440 Flex 733Mhz PPC, Amiga OS 4.1 Update 2, MorphOS 2.4, Other - AmiKit + Cloanto Amiga Forever 2008 + E-UAE, AmigaSYS

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
ChrisH 
Re: Posting from VCF Show
Posted on 20-Jun-2010 23:30:43
#177 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@SHADES Quote:
i'm frustrated cause I can't buy in.

Are you also frustrated you can't buy a Ferrari? Even though a Ford will do just as well to get you from A to B?

Hint: In Amiga land the X1000 is a Ferrari, and Sam is a Ford.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
I can usually be found on www.Amigans.net (my favourite Amiga forum).
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Spectre660 
Re: Posting from VCF Show
Posted on 20-Jun-2010 23:32:49
#178 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-Jun-2005
Posts: 3889
From: Unknown

@Lecta

Tried one in My Sam 440Flex and could not get the computer to boot.
Tried it without a PCI-E card attached as My PCI-E RAdeon HD cardr has not arrived yet.
Tied it in all 3 slots alone and also in 66 MHZ slot and both 33MHz slots with PCI Radeon 9250 also attached. No Dice. as I dont have a Null modem cable cant report on Uboot debug output.

Tried the card in a PC after and it booted ok and the adaptor showed up in a boot CD of a program called PCISniffer as a PCI-PCI bridge giving all the vendor id etc.

It would be worth it to get it to work on a sam though.



Quote:

Lecta wrote:
@Spectre660

Quote:

Wonder if we will ever see Uboot support for something like this so
Older Sam models could use PCI-E Graphics cards.

http://www.virtuavia.eu/shop/pci-32-bits-1-x-pci-express-adapter-.html


Well, Uboot already has support for PCI-E. If this card works with 3.3v there should be no problem. But to be 100% sure we should test it before reccomend its use.

We will buy one card and will do some tests as soon as possible and then we will report the results on ACube website.

_________________
Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
ChrisH 
Re: Posting from VCF Show
Posted on 20-Jun-2010 23:40:19
#179 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@tap Quote:
Share your thoughts. Today played Goonies on my old 3,57Mhz MSX and it?s so smooth. Tried the remake on SAM440 667Mhz and (although it?s features better graphics) got disappointed. It misses the smooth gameplay and that for a relative simple game on a machine that?s something of 200 times faster (I?m no programmer, but it looks like a less complicated piece of sw, knowing the original is 32Kb).

Then the logical conclusion is that the Goonies remake is well over 200 times slower. i.e. It is a badly written and/or badly ported game which probably needs many GHz to run at all. The original Goonies programmers are probably turning in their grave, if they are not still alive...

Goonies (remake) being slow is not really the hardware's fault, it is software's fault. At least software is easier to fix.

Maybe you should play original Goonies on an MSX emulator (if available)? That will no doubt be far far faster!

@Thomas
Quote:
Yeah.. it is completely unplayable on my Sam as well. Is kinda funny how even the ECS chipset would have done the job better with such types of games.

You are comparing apples to inflatable chickens. Comparing a hand-optimised game written in assembler, to a possibly bad port of a badly written game with no real optimisations at all, is hardly a fair comparison.

Have a look at Cadog Adventures for better game port - runs pretty smoothly here (at least up to 1024x768 resolution, above which I think our aging MiniGL runs out of steam). It may be relevant that the game was originally written by demo coders, who obviously care a lot more about performance than general PC programmers.

Last edited by ChrisH on 20-Jun-2010 at 11:47 PM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
I can usually be found on www.Amigans.net (my favourite Amiga forum).
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Tomppeli 
Re: Posting from VCF Show
Posted on 20-Jun-2010 23:55:49
#180 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2004
Posts: 1639
From: Home land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki

It looks like this Goonies game is using SDL and somebody said our SDL port is slow, if I can recall. Somebody should try to remake port of SDL and try to make it faster.

_________________
Rock lobster bit me, so excuse me. Amiga. Never forget.
X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE
"Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 Next Page )

[ home ][ about us ][ privacy ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright (C) 2000 - 2019 Amigaworld.net.
Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle