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Hammer 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 29-Jun-2010 3:55:44
#261 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 4409
From: Australia

@DAX

Quote:

DAX wrote:
@bernd_afa
When I told people that a 2Ghz Titan could generate 8000 mips they all fired back at me saying "mips" aren't that Hot these days, and that vector units are way more important.
On a link posted abobe I read:

The PA6T's back end can execute the following instruction types in parallel:

2 integer operations
1 floating-point operation
4 vector operations
1 load/store operation


Still limited by front-end's instruction issue.

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pavlor 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 29-Jun-2010 7:45:26
#262 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9373
From: Unknown

@lsorense

Welcome!

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KimmoK 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 29-Jun-2010 10:50:27
#263 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5209
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

Anyone yet snooped out what exact pins go to where, especially between PPC & xcore:
http://obligement.free.fr/gfx/amigaonex1000_nemo_schema.jpg
??

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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Birbo 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 29-Jun-2010 14:30:45
#264 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Apr-2007
Posts: 592
From: Zurich, Switzerland

A good explanation of Xenon:

http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2005/06/xbox360-2.ars


Really interesting...

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bernd_afa 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 29-Jun-2010 18:49:45
#265 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2006
Posts: 829
From: Unknown

@lsorense
>The Power6+ is available at 5GHz from IBM, and is I believe dual core with dual >thread per core. The Power7 is 8 core, 4+Ghz, 4 threads per core.

>The one in the xbox is a slow chip compared to the last few generations of IBM >power chips.

yes but the power chips are too expensive.do you know what a power 6 or seven cost ?.I guess more than 2000$.

A ppc970 have 2 cores and so the 3 core 3,5 GHZ Xenon can maybe faster as 2,5 GHZ 2 Core.also Xenon can do Hyperthreading, this is good speedup for in order CPU.

@dax
>2 integer operations
>1 floating-point operation
>4 vector operations
>1 load/store operation

thats all in all 8 Units.

where you have read that pa6t have 4 vector units Each Core ?

in wikipedia stand

"""
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PWRficient

6 execution units including a double precision FPU and Altivec unit.
"""

so can only have 2 Vector Units

the units are split, g4 have 2 vector units 1 load/save convert and 1 calc.

Last edited by bernd_afa on 29-Jun-2010 at 07:00 PM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 29-Jun-2010 at 06:54 PM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 29-Jun-2010 at 06:53 PM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 29-Jun-2010 at 06:50 PM.

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DAX 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 29-Jun-2010 18:59:34
#266 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@bernd_afa
I didn't say it has 4 vector units, I was quoting this article:

http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2007/02/8828.ars

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bernd_afa 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 29-Jun-2010 19:07:41
#267 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2006
Posts: 829
From: Unknown

@DAX
>I didn't say it has 4 vector units, I was quoting this article:

the pa6t is really a mystic CPU, when you look in wikipedia here stand 10 Million transistors

and on your link stand

(The PA6T has 200 million transistors total).

A G4 have too 10- 11 Million Transistors, but need less transistors because have smaller cache.

that pa5t have 200 million transistors and is 65 nm design and need only 5-13 Watt average, i also cant believe.

there are no wonders possible lower power usage you can only get with less transistors, or smaller structuresBut less transistors result in simpler design and slower speed

Last edited by bernd_afa on 29-Jun-2010 at 07:08 PM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 29-Jun-2010 at 07:08 PM.

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bernd_afa 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 29-Jun-2010 19:14:56
#268 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2006
Posts: 829
From: Unknown

Here can see a shematics image of pa6

http://www.tecchannel.de/_misc/img/detail.cfm?pk=346839&fk=432756&id=il-74075580158280914

Its on a german ariticle

http://www.tecchannel.de/test_technik/news/432756/fpf_pwrficient_multi_core_cpu_mit_virtualisierung/index2.html

the VMX untis are really split in 2 special units.

Last edited by bernd_afa on 29-Jun-2010 at 07:16 PM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 29-Jun-2010 at 07:16 PM.

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DAX 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 29-Jun-2010 19:28:23
#269 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@bernd_afa
it would seem, that they use very complex techniques for saving power, so complex in fact that the guy from arstechnica lamented the ultra complex talk: "The presenters get deep, deep into the weeds of clock tree design, clock synchronization, SRAM cell design, interconnect pitches, thermal profiling, and a whole bunch of other stuff that very few people understands"

They also mention that: " the chip sports over 25,000 clock gates so that clock pulses to different regions of the processor can be shut off dynamically to save power. "

P.S.
So each core has a VMX unit that is internally divided into 2 parts?

Last edited by DAX on 29-Jun-2010 at 07:29 PM.

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madmalkav 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 29-Jun-2010 22:37:01
#270 ]
Member
Joined: 19-May-2006
Posts: 88
From: Unknown

Don't forget in all that numbers dancing game that Xenon is an in-order execution CPU.

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KimmoK 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 30-Jun-2010 6:04:18
#271 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5209
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@bernd_afa

Same pic also here, this time the (longer) text is in english:
http://rram.spaces.eepw.com.cn/articles/article/item/77329

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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Arko 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 30-Jun-2010 7:53:02
#272 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Jan-2007
Posts: 1989
From: Unknown



Quote:

mips" aren't that Hot these days, and that vector units are way more important.


The G4 on the AmigaONe has a vector unit IMR AOS4 doesn't make any use of it. Maybe they will change this suddenly.

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

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pavlor 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 30-Jun-2010 8:00:27
#273 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9373
From: Unknown

@Arko

Quote:
The G4 on the AmigaONe has a vector unit IMR AOS4 doesn't make any use of it. Maybe they will change this suddenly.


Any proof of that statement?

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KimmoK 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 30-Jun-2010 8:31:52
#274 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5209
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@Arko

The problem is that VMX unit is too rare in the AOS community.
(situation seems far better in MOS side, most boards have G4&Altivec)

_________________
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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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DAX 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 30-Jun-2010 9:48:58
#275 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@KimmoK
Anyway, your linked article cinfirms that the PA6T has 2 VMX units per core, one for simple SIMD and one for complex SIMD operations.

The entire text shows that it is more advanced than G5 in many areas (it's not just more L1 cache as it treats data in a more advanced way in many instances).

Last edited by DAX on 30-Jun-2010 at 09:49 AM.

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KimmoK 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 30-Jun-2010 10:09:18
#276 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5209
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@DAX

PA6T seems almost too good to be true. It has very high bandwidth all around the SOC + RAM (the best in RISC world?). It will be very interesting to see how it performs in desktop tasks. I believe that there are many (non Amiga) "geeks" that wan't to buy it just to play with the most modern PPC CPU. (IIRC, PA6T evaluation boards cost several thousands more)


(IIRC, G5 was (about) the first POWER core based chip that had VMX, so it's not too surpricing if PA Semi managed to improve from that. I think latest G4 models had far more "polished" Altivec implementation. G4's "only" handicap seems to be the bandwidth to/from the CPU.)

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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DAX 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 30-Jun-2010 10:13:24
#277 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@KimmoK
The article also says it has better handling of Cisc instructions compared to G4/G5 (it can execute many of them natively instead of breaking them down first) I wonder if that feature will be of any help in Desktop applications.

_________________
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Arko 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 30-Jun-2010 12:00:46
#278 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Jan-2007
Posts: 1989
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@Arko

Any proof of that statement?


No I have never seen any aouncement about a future Altivec support in AOS4

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

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Arko 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 30-Jun-2010 12:02:07
#279 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Jan-2007
Posts: 1989
From: Unknown

@KimmoK

Quote:

KimmoK wrote:
@Arko

The problem is that VMX unit is too rare in the AOS community.
(situation seems far better in MOS side, most boards have G4&Altivec)


It was my impressions as if there where mor G4 A1 or PegII around than Sam440

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

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pavlor 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 30-Jun-2010 12:07:24
#280 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9373
From: Unknown

@Arko

Quote:
No I have never seen any aouncement about a future Altivec support in AOS4


Announced and introduced there

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