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      /  Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)
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PosterThread
ChrisH 
Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)
Posted on 23-Aug-2010 12:51:21
#81 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@Kronos
No need to get upset, nor put words into my mouth. Just seems strange for new version of some 3rd-party software to suddenly stop supporting OSes (AmigaOS3 & AmigaOS4) which were previously supported, without any apparently good reason.

Imagine that (say) Hollywood suddenly stopped supporting MorphOS in it's next version, but kept supporting AmigaOS3, OS4 & AROS. Wouldn't you find that a bit, hmmm, unfair? Of course the author can do whatever they like, including abandon it completely, but....

Last edited by ChrisH on 23-Aug-2010 at 12:53 PM.

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Kronos 
Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)
Posted on 23-Aug-2010 13:20:15
#82 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2316
From: Unknown

@ChrisH

Suddenly ???????

-MUI38usr.lha is listed 1997-02-15 on Aminet
-in 2000 (or late 1999) laire got stuntzi's o.k. to make a PPC-version to be included into MorphOS
-in late 2001 stuntzi gave that version over to Hyperion for inclusion into OS4 and with a restricted licence.

So MUI for 68k is "dead" for 13 years, and the OS4 version was allways seen as a stopgap-measure to support legacy apps (and that for allmost 9 years) .

People inside the MorphOS-team (which may or may not include stuntzi) did develop their version further as they see it as an intregral part of their OS.

Hyperion did have the chance to buy in further going rights, but by the reasons outlined above they declined.

Bout Hollywood, if I were to buy it, I would buy it based on features it has today and on those only. If further updates appear nice, if not ...... shrug..... it's not like I paid for those.


All MUI-AmigaOS-apps (68k or PPC) work (or should work) with the MUI-version supplied with OS4.
All 68k-MUI-AmigaOS-apps work with MUI3.8.

Supplying AmigaOS with an intregral part of MorphOS would only make it easier to port MorphOS-apps over. Something you might welcome, something that might be considered "nice", but nothing you have any right demanding.

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Fab 
Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)
Posted on 23-Aug-2010 13:37:22
#83 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2004
Posts: 1178
From: Unknown

@ChrisH

By the way, i had missed that detail:

Quote:

Although ReAction was a 3rd-party add-on, it got absorbed into OS3.5 as the official GUI solution (long before MOS existed), [...].


If we're only considering the release dates, 3.5 was released in december 1999, and MorphOS 0.1 in August 2000. So that's clearly not that "long" before.

But it's actually irrelevant: MorphOS has been worked on since 1997, and MUI was probably already ported to MorphOS in 1999 already.

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itix 
Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)
Posted on 23-Aug-2010 13:52:12
#84 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Fab

MUI was also ported to another commercial OS I can not remember anymore...

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Fab 
Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)
Posted on 23-Aug-2010 14:19:37
#85 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2004
Posts: 1178
From: Unknown

@itix

Met@box, i suppose.

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Develin 
Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)
Posted on 23-Aug-2010 14:23:25
#86 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2006
Posts: 439
From: Karlstad, Sweden

@Fab

Yeah, sure was (CaOS) =)
They even had Voyager up and running on that baby =)

Last edited by Develin on 23-Aug-2010 at 02:34 PM.

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ExiE 
Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)
Posted on 23-Aug-2010 14:49:29
#87 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-May-2004
Posts: 450
From: Czech Amiga News

@Kronos

Quote:
Hyperion did have the chance to buy in further going rights, but by the reasons outlined above they declined.


Hmpf, but we are not talking here with or about Hyperion, but about users. So my question is, did the users get same chance you are talking about? I guess not.

Quote:
Supplying AmigaOS with an intregral part of MorphOS

Its not just about AmigaOS, but also AROS and if this would succeed, it would help developers across all "amiga" platforms same as users.

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Kronos 
Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)
Posted on 23-Aug-2010 15:10:34
#88 ]
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Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2316
From: Unknown

@ExiE

Again, users got what they paid for.

MUI3.8 for 68k that is !

If they decided to use other OSes (be it AROS or OS4) they can't expect support.

Now I have nothing against porting/reimplementing MUI4 for other OSes, I just can't stand certain people thinking the have some sort of "birthright" to such a port.

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pavlor 
Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)
Posted on 23-Aug-2010 15:29:51
#89 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9476
From: Unknown

@ShInKurO

I fear that in the day when your bounty will be completed, Reaction GUI will be as good as (or better than) MUI4 and there will be MUI5 for MorphOS...

As I see it, we have 3 OSs with their own GUI: AmigaOS with Reaction, MorphOS with MUI4 and AROS with ZUNE. Yes, it is not good for developers, but it is fact we can´t change.

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vidarh 
Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)
Posted on 23-Aug-2010 15:34:05
#90 ]
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Joined: 4-Jan-2010
Posts: 580
From: London, UK (ex-pat; originally from Norway)

@pavlor

Doesn't matter. At that stage it would still be far more viable for developers who want to write cross platform apps to stick to to the functionality supported by Zune than what it is today.

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Metalheart 
Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)
Posted on 23-Aug-2010 15:56:03
#91 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2968
From: Somewhere in the Dutch mountains....

So ? Anyone already doing something for this bounty, or are things still being discussed ?

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ShInKurO 
Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)
Posted on 23-Aug-2010 17:05:13
#92 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2004
Posts: 465
From: Italy

@Metalheart

IMO It's necessary to define second step of this bounty, if you all help then we can finalize it and to send it to power2people.

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bernd_afa 
Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)
Posted on 23-Aug-2010 17:33:32
#93 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2006
Posts: 829
From: Unknown

@Kronos
>People inside the MorphOS-team (which may or may not include stuntzi) did >develop their version further as they see it as an intregral part of their OS.

I think stuntzi do all in all very very few on MUI 4 and have since years not written any line of code.MOS team have mostly enhance MUI4.

Maybe somebody of MOS Team can confirm if thats correct what i think or not.

I know only that Stefan Stuntz is a active Mountan Biker which is lots time with his bicycle on tour.

here can read more in german about him.

http://www.alpenzorro.de/

http://www.bike-magazin.de/?p=2408

So thats the reason i think that Stefan have no motivation to do something with MUI4 since 2006(he his first tour)

Last edited by bernd_afa on 23-Aug-2010 at 05:37 PM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 23-Aug-2010 at 05:34 PM.

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number6 
Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)
Posted on 23-Aug-2010 18:10:34
#94 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11515
From: In the village

@pavlor

Quote:
I fear that in the day when your bounty will be completed, Reaction GUI will be as good as (or better than) MUI4 and there will be MUI5 for MorphOS


I really think you could get a better picture of present and future if you read the link that ChrisH supplied.

But I also urge you and everyone else to remember that each post...each fact...is just a snapshot in time. Please do not dwell on any one individual post and draw a conclusion from just that one source. Shinkuro and others are looking for solutions, and hence avoid the historical banter.

#6

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Tomppeli 
Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)
Posted on 23-Aug-2010 18:52:51
#95 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2004
Posts: 1649
From: Home land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki

@Kronos

Quote:
Again, users got what they paid for.

MUI3.8 for 68k that is !

If they decided to use other OSes (be it AROS or OS4) they can't expect support.

I've never bought MUI license and don't know what is included in it. But if I bought it years ago I would not buy it for Motorola 68000 CPU or CPU family. I would bought it for AmigaOS. So if the license grants I can get any number of future updates for AmigaOS then I would definetly expect to get the latest MUI version for the latest AmigaOS version. Be it running on any CPU out there.

@thread
And wasn't the most of the apps using MUI using mostly 3rd party classes anyway which have their source code publicly available. So you have to update muimaster.library/zunemaster.library only ? Is it big or small work ? Then use/recompile 3rd party 4.0 classes out of the box ?

Last edited by Tomppeli on 23-Aug-2010 at 06:54 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)
Posted on 23-Aug-2010 19:01:02
#96 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9476
From: Unknown

@number6

Quote:
I really think you could get a better picture of present and future if you read the link that ChrisH supplied.


I only hope that this effort will not end like GTK2MUI wrapper.

Quote:
Shinkuro and others are looking for solutions, and hence avoid the historical banter.


And they have my full moral support. It would be really good if such project could be completed soon. However, I don´t think we live in time of miracles.

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wawa 
Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)
Posted on 23-Aug-2010 21:40:43
#97 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:

@number6

Quote:
I really think you could get a better picture of present and future if you read the link that ChrisH supplied.


I only hope that this effort will not end like GTK2MUI wrapper.


good example.

@tompelli:

since microsoft seems always to be a a good example too, you imply that having paid for a windows licence once entitles you to get any following version for free? good luck with it.

Last edited by wawa on 23-Aug-2010 at 09:42 PM.

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ChrisH 
Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)
Posted on 23-Aug-2010 21:50:51
#98 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

If anyone feels that I am attacking MorphOS or it's users, then it's probably time for me to drop this overly sensitive subject, since that is not the intention. I'd just like to hear some reasonable explanation about the MUI4 business, since I never heard one.

@Kronos
I'm afraid I didn't follow the point you were trying to make, but I think you focused to much on a single word I wrote ("suddenly").

Dunno why you mention 13 years (todays date is not relevant), we are talking about :
1997 MUI3 was available for OS3, and "suddenly" (2-3 years later) in 1999 or 2000 MUI4 was MOS-only.

P.S. I do not claim "birthright" or any such nonsense. I just claim that (for example) if Hollywood stopped supporting some AmigaOS flavours in next version (say MOS) then alot of people would be quite surprised & upset (and I think you would be too). So I see no reason for not also feeling so about MUI4, even if it happened 10 years ago. If there was some good reason for this that someone could explain to me, then I'd love to hear it.

@Fab Quote:
So that's clearly not that "long" before.

I don't feel that nit-picking is helpful here. Main point was that ReAction was absorbed into AmigaOS before MorphOS was released, so it wouldn't make sense to ask for it to be ported to MOS for free, anymore than it would be to ask for Intuition or some other OS component.

Also, I think MorphOS 0.1 (in August 2000) wasn't really MOS as we recognise today - I believe I tried it out on my BlizzPPC card, and IIRC used many AmigaOS components to run. It was more of a "enhance AmigaOS with PPC parts" then, but now it's a fully self-contained OS with a different desktop/etc.

Last edited by ChrisH on 23-Aug-2010 at 09:59 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 23-Aug-2010 at 09:55 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 23-Aug-2010 at 09:54 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 23-Aug-2010 at 09:52 PM.

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itix 
Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)
Posted on 23-Aug-2010 22:56:20
#99 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@ChrisH

Quote:

Dunno why you mention 13 years (todays date is not relevant), we are talking about :
1997 MUI3 was available for OS3, and "suddenly" (2-3 years later) in 1999 or 2000 MUI4 was MOS-only


There was no MUI4 in 2000. It was MUI 3.9 which was ported to MorphOS 0.x and 1.x in its early years and after that Hyperion licensed and ported the same MUI 3.9 for their OS4 project. MUI4 didnt appear until 2005 or so. Tho, I think MUI 3.9 in MorphOS 1 was slightly more advanced than its OS4 counterpart and MorphOS version didnt have shareware restrictions.

There also existed MUI 3.9 for 68k but it was never released to the public. I know many notable Amiga developers had it in late 90s.

Quote:

I don't feel that nit-picking is helpful here. Main point was that ReAction was absorbed into AmigaOS before MorphOS was released, so it wouldn't make sense to ask for it to be ported to MOS for free, anymore than it would be to ask for Intuition or some other OS component.


Does it matter? Both OS4 and MUI are/were commercial projects. ClassAct was project of Amitrix (AWeb developers) who donated source code to H&P.

Quote:

Also, I think MorphOS 0.1 (in August 2000) wasn't really MOS as we recognise today - I believe I tried it out on my BlizzPPC card, and IIRC used many AmigaOS components to run. It was more of a "enhance AmigaOS with PPC parts" then, but now it's a fully self-contained OS with a different desktop/etc


MorphOS 0.1 only had ExecPPC and PPC native CyberGraphX 5 and it was deemed slow. MUI was key component to make Amiga software run at acceptable speed.

Last edited by itix on 23-Aug-2010 at 11:19 PM.
Last edited by itix on 23-Aug-2010 at 11:05 PM.

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Gebrochen 
Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible
Posted on 24-Aug-2010 3:29:47
#100 ]
Super Member
Joined: 23-Nov-2008
Posts: 1429
From: Australia

@Metalheart

Never said I never agreed to you.

I merely misunderstood and thought you were against it.

Cheers

EDIT
replying to post #39
END EDIT

Last edited by Gebrochen on 24-Aug-2010 at 03:32 AM.

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