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      /  [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
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Poll : How should AW.net handle Commodore USA's Amigas?
Treat it as off-topic except in General Technology, Alt Amiga OS, & Free for all.
Create a new forum for Commodore USA Amigas.
Allow it to be discussed in Amiga general chat like any other Amiga (classic, AmigaOne etc).
Some other option (explain in a post).
 
PosterThread
marko 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 14:38:11
#101 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Dec-2007
Posts: 1816
From: Gothenburg, THE front side of Sweden ;), (via Finland), EU

@Nimrod

Quote:
Nimrod wrote:

@BigBentheAussie
Quote:
2011 will *likely* see CommodoreUSA release AMIGA desktops, an AMIGA laptop and an AMIGA tablet.

Forgive my cynicism but I have been hearing claims like this from various sources for far too long. When you have made as much notable progress as Trevor Dickinson I may start to take notice, until then there are only three relevant topics . AROS(x86), MorphOS(retired Mac), and OS4.x(Up to SAM 'likely' soon A1X1K).

+1... and OS3 (68k / UAE)

@eliyahu

Quote:
in all honesty the idea that the amiga brand will end its days this way is hugely disappointing to me. just a sticker on some bog-standard PC from a company adding no value to the machine itself whatsoever. that hardly seems in keeping with the amiga tradition.

+1

PS: this is all I'm going to say about this for now.

Last edited by marko on 17-Oct-2010 at 02:57 PM.

_________________
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Hammer 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 14:52:19
#102 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5246
From: Australia

@DAX

Quote:

DAX wrote:
@Hammer
I'm not saying they are GPUs, but as 1980s console like/raster graphics chipsets are no longer the way to go,

“Fat” GpGPU can accelerate raytracing btw. Intel was pushing raytracing hype with Larrabee cGPU...

Ghostbusters PC vs Ghostbusters Xbox360/PS3

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,680340/Ghostbusters-PC-version-beats-console-variant-in-graphics/News/

PCGH:You announced that your game will be developed for PC, Xbox 360 and PS3. Will the engine then be a pure cross-platform product or will there be an optimized version for the PC? If there is a special built for the PC what technical feature can't be realized with the console version or in other words are there any features the PC is the ideal platform to develop for?

Mark Randel:The PC will most definitely be an optimized version. For example, if you have a fast SLI/Crossfire rig, you can turn on per pixel screen space ambient occlusion. The game will perform up to 64 raytraces per pixel on the screen to increase the detail level. That is something you cannot do on the current consoles. Plus you can increase shadow map resolution and use super high resolution textures if you have the memory!
------
1080 x 1024 = 1,310,720 x 64 ray trace per pixel = 83,886,080

GDDR3 and GDDR5A(1st on Radeon HD 5870)/GDDR5B(1st on Radeon HD 69x0) is largely driven by ATI (now AMD) and it's memory manufacturer partners.

-------

Last edited by Hammer on 17-Oct-2010 at 03:07 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 17-Oct-2010 at 03:06 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 17-Oct-2010 at 03:03 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 17-Oct-2010 at 02:56 PM.

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paolone 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 14:58:27
#103 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1143
From: Unknown

@Wizzard_o

Quote:
@terminills @paolone
Have either of you ever used OS4? Thought not.


Yes. I am owner of a SAM 440EP 667 MHz with AmigaOS 4.1. And so?

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Shufflepuck 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 14:59:27
#104 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2009
Posts: 643
From: Home

@paolone

I'm not saying they would have to respect the feeling of 1.000 potential customers while their targeted ocean/marketplace is potentially 10-100 times bigger than that, they'd be crazy to do (just) that. I've nothing against CUSA, in fact I wish them all the best, their business strategy makes sense (even if I have not seen any indication of a professional approach from their side, yet..).

However, what I was trying to express is that their approach has nothing to do with Amiga's legacy and heritage, both from the software and hardware sides. Bad management, lack of vision, scams and all of that, yeah, mistakes, I was here (well, not on this board), but I was referring to the original Commodore Amiga, not the mess that followed after C='s demise.

And again, it's not that those few hundreds - including me - unrealistically dream about being competitive with the mainstream and fight against iPads or renderfarms or whatever - and this is my personal opinion here - as AmigaOS and MorphOS and AROS users we're all in one way or another keeping a very personal torch alive, a constant struggle to try to give continuity to a jewel from the past, paying tribute to an icon that marked our IT lifes (as gamers, professionals, video-editors, whatever we were doing back then).

CUSA is looking forward architecture-wise, adopting standars and designing retro-cases, hallelujah, but jeez: Windows?

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 15:04:11
#105 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1351
From: CRO

@Shufflepuck

Quote:
but jeez: Windows?


My reply is... but jeez: OS 3.1?

seriously, if the entire community wasn't so obsessed with backwards compatibility, maybe there would be a competitive amiga(like) OS with SMP, USB 2.0 support, advanced 3D graphics, Wi-fi, JAVA and there would not be a need for linux or windows...

You reap what you sow.

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clusteruk 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 15:12:00
#106 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2008
Posts: 1544
From: Marston Moretaine, England

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:
seriously, if the entire community wasn't so obsessed with backwards compatibil


Windows is the most backwards compatible system around and is why it is still number one. You cannot forget your roots and you must try and support them in the future.

However, even Commodore broke with the past, 2.0 then 3.1, but they always supported software that followed the rules.

I believe that at some point Aros will move on, but no matter what we do it would not be enough for you so there we have it. But for now we complete the task at hand.

Aros as it stands is very quickly becoming ready for more computer enthusiasts, but not general users. That is a long way off, but it will probably get there in time.

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BigBentheAussie 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 15:13:24
#107 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia

@Shufflepuck

Windows7 is an option. We intend to ship with Linux.
We will have dual boot set up and likely virtualbox as well.

@damocles
We will be selling Commodore and Amiga accessories. Monitors, wireless keyboards, mice, mouse pads, remotes, controllers, whatever you can think of.

_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

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Hammer 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 15:16:16
#108 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5246
From: Australia

@DAX

Quote:

DAX wrote:
@Hammer
It's good for PP users, maybe we'll get an OpenCL (or 2nd/3rd gen Xmos) accelerated version of Hollywood Designer

Its unlikely XMOS can compete against AMD, NVIDIA and Intel in the GPU market. AMD, NVIDIA and Intel are throwning $$$ on GPU R&D.

CELL attempted to enter the PC pro-GPU market.
http://www.mc.com/products/boards/accelerator_board2.aspx
competes directly against NVIDIA Tesla/Quadro and AMD FireStream.

STI CELL


VS


PS AMD has leaked thier next Radeon HD 6990

VS


PS NV has leaked thier next Geforce GTX 580

Last edited by Hammer on 17-Oct-2010 at 03:27 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 17-Oct-2010 at 03:25 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 17-Oct-2010 at 03:23 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 17-Oct-2010 at 03:21 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 17-Oct-2010 at 03:19 PM.

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Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 15:18:52
#109 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1351
From: CRO

@clusteruk

It is one thing to have backwards compatibility with Win98 or XP and a completely different one with the OS 3.1. Even so, there are numerous older games and apps that do not run on newer windows.

being backwards compatible with OS 3.1 made sense 10-15 years ago, today it's just unnecessary gimmick.

BTW, i did try out AROS Broadway yesterday... it's a nice little OS. It was slightly unstable but probably because of the Virtual Box.

P.S. And yes, I will probably run AROS on x86 Amiga, I have nothing against it when looking for a retro OS solution.

Last edited by WolfToTheMoon on 17-Oct-2010 at 03:21 PM.

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T-J 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 15:20:15
#110 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Aug-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@jas_mc

Quote:


Poss off-topic, but BigBen has said that Commodore USA has carte blanche to do pretty much whatever it wants with the Amiga name (if I remember correctly).

But to our knowledge, they don't have quite the same freedom with the Commodore trademark (which they're using as the name of their company).

Does this create branding difficulties? Technically it sounds like they could make a product that they could call an Amiga, without been able to slap the word Commodore (their company name!) on it.


That is the situation. Asiarim are the *real* Commodore, in that they are the eventual inheritors of the original brand as bought by Escom. Asiarim has licenced the Commodore brand name for use on CUSA's keyboard computers. The license only mentions the PC64, but we can probably expect it to be extended to an A500 lookalike in future, branded as a 'Commodore Amiga'.

However, for anything not in a retro keyboard case, they can't use the Commodore brand. Apparently, they can use the Amiga brand, though. Assuming of course that A-Inc aren't lying about what they actually own. It wouldn't be the first time.

@Plaz and Shufflepuck

CUSA isn't looking forward, though. Its just looking around at what's going on now and saying, OK, lets copy that and make a quick buck. I don't see any innovation there, and there's no unique selling point. Because of this lack of differentiation, they're going to get eaten alive by Dell, Asus, HP etc, just like Acorn (2006-2009).

@BigBenTheAussie

You know, most if not all of this hostility would just melt away if CUSA were to drop the 'x' from their products' names (bit obvious, chaps) and license an Amiga sub-brand (like 'Power Amiga') to Hyperion for a range of enthusiasts' computers running AmigaOS with the enthusiast-appeal features like XMOS. Demonstrate that you're working with the existing Amiga community rather than trying to kill it to clear the ground for your PCs.

You wanted suggestions, that's mine. Feel free to ignore it or mock it as you please.

Last edited by T-J on 17-Oct-2010 at 03:28 PM.

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clusteruk 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 15:23:11
#111 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2008
Posts: 1544
From: Marston Moretaine, England

@WolfToTheMoon

Good then as it improves, you can enjoy the benefits with the rest.

_________________
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http://www.checkmate1500plus.com/

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DAX 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 15:38:40
#112 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@Hammer
It's not a question of competing.

Talking of PP, let's just say it's certainly not an application that would make a GPU shine, probably you wouldn't see any speed difference between a presentation program HW accelerated by GP-GPU and a cluster of third generation X-mos chips.

The real difference will be appreciated in more "heavy" applications, but there,again it's not a question of "competing" as the whole concept of Heterogeneous computing it's about every resource in your machine providing additional computing power that sums up with everything else.
There are already trio solutions where a CPU a GPU and a particular accelerator card work (all three) together in order to maximize performance, and a GPU (for how powerful it will be) will never be more powerful than that very same GPU + a Cluster of other chips adding up.

_________________
SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

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cgutjahr 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 15:50:51
#113 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 969
From: Unknown

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:

WE ARE AMIGA NOW!

Let me check:

Crappy website? check.
Lots of big promises with no substance? check.
Throwing around buzzwords like there's no tomorrow? check.
Obvious problems from the get go that are being ignored? check.
Trying to sell completely unrelated technology referring to some Amiga "flavour" or "spirit"? check.
Did already mention a "revolution", or at least an "evolution"? No!

Sorry, but you fail. Ignoring copyright laws does not make up for failing to mention the next Amiga revolution. Try harder.

Quote:

I do not take this burden of being the new bearer of the AMIGA flame lightly, and I will try my best to ensure that our AMIGA machines will be befitting of the hallowed brand.

You get bonus points for "hallowed brand". That's a new one.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 16:03:49
#114 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1351
From: CRO

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:
Windows7 is an option. We intend to ship with Linux. We will have dual boot set up and likely virtualbox as well.





Have you chosen a name for the linux distro if it's going to be a custom distro?

_________________

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amigang 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 16:04:28
#115 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 2018
From: Cheshire, England

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:
@damocles We will be selling Commodore and Amiga accessories. Monitors, wireless keyboards, mice, mouse pads, remotes, controllers, whatever you can think of.


Translation, any thing we think we can make some money from this brand were going to be selling it!

I cant say I blame them, I'm kind of surprise Amiga Inc did'nt do more with the brand, but my only advice I have for C=USA is please, please, please treat the brand with respect.

_________________
AmigaNG, YouTube, LeaveReality Studio

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BigBentheAussie 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 16:04:40
#116 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia

@Wizzard_o

Quote:
Instead of just badge-engineering other manufacturer's PC's why not invest in REAL Amiga Technology and build an OS4 capable (Power PC) machine?


We have nothing against PPC or OS4 by the way but we're not about to throw money at it.
Other companies are free to make that gamble though and if that is what you want then you should buy that.

As for the rebadging....you do realise that practically all PC vendors are buying their stuff from China too. If it's good enough for the big boys, why should you expect more from a start-up of all companies? We can compete on a level playing field from day one, not in a few years from now, while we shake out our motherboards.

Our AMIGA machines will be unique enough as far as the general public is concerned and espouse many of the virtues of the classics.
We're defintely not using crappy parts either.

Also, look at all the uses that are being made of GPUs today. Look at what CUDA is capable of for instance and the niches that take advantage of it. Better to have a machine that is capable of leveraging that than not. In the days of CrossFire how could you possibly limit yourself to an onboard graphics chipset like the classic Amiga when the possibility exists to stream across multiple GPUs. The new Amiga must become a concept rather than fixed hardware. It must become synonymous with kick-butt hardware as it used to be. There is just too much technological pace in the x86 marketplace to remain fixed spec for any period of time. Unfortunately keeping up means shedding *some*of the legacy aspects. You can spend as little or as much as you want on our hardware, but the possibilities have to exist. Our C64x which will be our cheapest option, will be dual core and likely run at 1.8 or 2Ghz, and our high-end will likely be pushing 4Ghz. I know we're in PC land here and Ghz has traditionally meant little to Amigans, but I know which machine I'd prefer at the end of the day.

_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

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Trekiej 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 16:06:46
#117 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 17-Oct-2006
Posts: 890
From: Unknown

@amigang

+1

_________________
John 3:16

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T-J 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 16:16:23
#118 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Aug-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:
We have nothing against PPC or OS4 by the way but we're not about to throw money at it. Other companies are free to make that gamble though and if that is what you want then you should buy that.


Again you dodge the question with the 'we won't throw money at it' excuse.


Most, if not all of the hostility would evaporate if you dropped the 'x' from your product's name (sowing confusion isn't helping your case) and licensed a sub-brand that you're never going to use (like 'Power Amiga') to Hyperion for their range of enthusiasts' machines.

I point this out because right now, your company has practically no goodwill from the Amiga community and none from the wider technology community, after you threatened to sue OSNews. Doing this would validate your claim that you only want to help the Amiga community, and would cost you nothing.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 16:29:00
#119 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1351
From: CRO

@T-J

Quote:
licensed a sub-brand that you're never going to use (like 'Power Amiga') to Hyperion for their range of enthusiasts' machines.


they already have a brand name they chosen themselves to get in the settlement and they pay no fees for it... can they afford a license fee for a new one?


Quote:
Most, if not all of the hostility would evaporate if you dropped the 'x' from your product's name


That I can see causing some confusion, but only untill you look at the price and the specs, not to mention that A500x will be a AIO and X1000 will be a tower desktop...

_________________

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NathanH 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 16:31:21
#120 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Mar-2005
Posts: 111
From: Caldwell, Idaho USA

@fairlanefastback

The site is named AmigaWorld (an Amiga Community Portal). I would think that such a description on the site header would welcome anyone who considers themselves an Amiga enthusiast. If not, I would think that the name be changed or a definition as to what is meant by "Amiga Community Portal" be explicitly defined. In my opinion, someone likely considers themselves an Amiga enthusiast if they at sometime used and loved a computer or software that had the label "Amiga" attached to it. Thank goodness for youngsters, we might even have some people who love a rendition created after 1994 regardless of label who may not even have been using prior offerings. So without a more precise definition in the header, the community apparently includes people linked by the label Amiga; past, present, and future.

I would think that increasing the number of Amiga enthusiasts that are welcomed by this site would increase the number of users in all Amiga-inspired incarnations and keep this site alive; presumably the site owners' overall goal and probably the wisest long-term path for keeping "Amiga" alive regardless of the current situations and thoughts as to what is "Amiga".

I read this site for the very purpose that many vocal people spurn it; to keep up with the latest happenings by _all_ Amiga enthusiasts. I would like to keep up with Commodore Amiga happenings for the same reason; people that post here because of it are Amiga enthusiasts; past, present, or future.

So, I believe that there should be a forum for Commodore USA Amigas on this site despite my personal misgivings as to the "shake-up" and "trolling" that will likely ensue; a new player might be coming to town that we will have to figure out how to accommodate within this community. Maybe it will eventually lead to another Amithlon-like or Anubis-like incarnation if we welcome this new blood. I like playing with and supporting all incarnations. Thanks for asking my opinion.

Nathan

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