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      /  [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
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Poll : How should AW.net handle Commodore USA's Amigas?
Treat it as off-topic except in General Technology, Alt Amiga OS, & Free for all.
Create a new forum for Commodore USA Amigas.
Allow it to be discussed in Amiga general chat like any other Amiga (classic, AmigaOne etc).
Some other option (explain in a post).
 
PosterThread
T-J 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 16:33:40
#121 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Aug-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@WolfToTheMoon

Way back in the mists of time, on the previous version of CUSA's website, they had a section entitled 'Amiga'.

It said something along the lines of 'emulation only, but A-Eon Technology and Hyperion Entertainment are producing the AmigaONE X1000, running AmigaOS4.x, the latest version etc etc.'

Why can we not have that back, rather than these blatant attempts to grab attention and confuse the customer?

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clusteruk 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 16:41:10
#122 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2008
Posts: 1544
From: Marston Moretaine, England

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:
Unfortunately keeping up means shedding *some*of the legacy aspects.


By some do you mean the entire operating system and going to windows.

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http://www.checkmate1500plus.com/

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Nimrod 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 16:48:50
#123 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2010
Posts: 1223
From: Untied Kingdom

@clusteruk

They can get Linux cheaper than Windows
Quote:

BigBentheAussie
Windows7 is an option. We intend to ship with Linux


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_Steve_ 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 17:00:13
#124 ]
Team Member
Joined: 17-Oct-2002
Posts: 6807
From: UK

@NathanH

Quote:

NathanH wrote:
@fairlanefastback

The site is named AmigaWorld (an Amiga Community Portal). I would think that such a description on the site header would welcome anyone who considers themselves an Amiga enthusiast. If not, I would think that the name be changed or a definition as to what is meant by "Amiga Community Portal" be explicitly defined.


Something to consider here is that the site was created when there was a singular "Amiga" to deal with - the Original Classic Amiga range made by CBM, and as Amiga users and enthusiasts, the site was set up to help and support users of these systems.

Now fast forward 10 years, and we have a new editiion of the Amiga OS in the form of OS4 written to support both old (Classic Amiga with PPC) and new PPC based hardware.

The main contentious point here is that you will now have some hardware called a Commodore (USA) Amiga, that is in fact incapable of actually running the Amiga OS. I'd love to see some of the support enquiries you will get from that particular issue.

Quote:
In my opinion, someone likely considers themselves an Amiga enthusiast if they at sometime used and loved a computer or software that had the label "Amiga" attached to it. Thank goodness for youngsters, we might even have some people who love a rendition created after 1994 regardless of label who may not even have been using prior offerings. So without a more precise definition in the header, the community apparently includes people linked by the label Amiga; past, present, and future.


The main issue of this particular thread was geared around whether or not a separate category should be created for any of the new "Amiga" licensed branded machines - whilly unrelated to the Amiga or AmigaOne systems.

As pointed out, a majority of the forum areas were geared around Operating Systems and to a lesser extent the hardware - simply because there were only a few choices (classic Amigas, classic Amiga OSs, OS4.x and OS4.x hardware). The arrival of AROS and MorphOS just meant that a new area for their posts to appear in was created, but in both cases MorphOS and AROS are to some degree, supported on the original Commodore Amiga machines.

Commodore USA Amiga systems by all accounts are going to essentially be a re-badged PC which will not be running AROS or any form of Amiga OS (or even MorphOS). As such, postings for these machines would need to either appear in a General Technology or a newly created area.

Quote:
I would think that increasing the number of Amiga enthusiasts that are welcomed by this site would increase the number of users in all Amiga-inspired incarnations and keep this site alive; presumably the site owners' overall goal and probably the wisest long-term path for keeping "Amiga" alive regardless of the current situations and thoughts as to what is "Amiga".


The issue here is that someone buying a machine today branded as a Commodore Amiga (Gaming PC), is unlikely to have even used the original machines from the 80s. To them, a Commodore Amiga is some high end PC, and so the support a site like ours can offer is diminished as most of its membership have limited or little interest in providing technical help with configuring a PC (using various flavours of x86 OSs be that Windows or Linux).

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number6 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 17:11:16
#125 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@_Steve_

Quote:
The main contentious point here is that you will now have some hardware called a Commodore (USA) Amiga, that is in fact incapable of actually running the Amiga OS. I'd love to see some of the support enquiries you will get from that particular issue.


and

Quote:
To them, a Commodore Amiga is some high end PC, and so the support a site like ours can offer is diminished as most of its membership have limited or little interest in providing technical help with configuring a PC (using various flavours of x86 OSs be that Windows or Linux).


Maybe they will offer their own support staff for such new forums?
How would AW view such an offer?

How much traffic is AW getting presently vs Commodore USA?

It makes one think.

#6

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BigBentheAussie 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 17:13:21
#126 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia

@T-J
@ChrisH

Confusion? Really? And if so, who do you think will benefit? Surely not us.
Would you want us to drop the the little 'x' entirely and be confused with the classics? Can you imagine that in conversation?
When x was included in our model names it was not at all influenced by A-Eon's model name. It was actually carried over from the suffix we'd been using for the C64 ie C64x as in x86 based. A-Eon was the last thing we were thinking of. I was actually surprised when this was first brought up. It really is a little anal retentive of you to be so hung up on that. I imagine you're going to be freaked out when we release an A1000x too.

_________________
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Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

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vox 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 17:16:43
#127 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3731
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@_Steve_

While Amiga enthusiasts are always welcome (no AROS or MOS restrictions as seen), CUSA is just a liceence of both CBM and Amiga names and logos, not continuing the old machines, just rebranding for better salles.

As stated above, they do not provide any information on current Amiga development on the web site or with the machines (or at least have not announced to do so).

Even when reading usual PC users with retro nostalgia on Amiga (not aware of OS4 development) they either believe this will be some Amiga recreation, which is also untrue ... and even last CUSA web site stated it as AMIGO not AMIGA.

So,its all just Auzzies fight for human rights without any humans.

Bottom line: its still announced product, not even demonstrated. When its done.

Best I have seen is Aussies triple boot demo including AROS on You Tube.
I was happy that they are going to invest / boost AROS growth, and every PC user would greet that, but then it turned out in discussions not to be so. So it`s not just spoiling the AmigaOS 4 name and hardware announcement (also late and not on sale) and creating confusion.

They are same kind of Commodore company as Amiga companies were after the AmigaOne was out of production - nice cover up with just a symbolic name.

_________________
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Akiko 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 17:22:27
#128 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Mar-2004
Posts: 781
From: UK

@Wizzard_o

Quote:
Bill McEwen has pretty much left the AMIGA brand to us to do with as we please.
WE ARE AMIGA NOW! No matter what your take on that is.
2011 will *likely* see CommodoreUSA release AMIGA desktops, an AMIGA laptop and an AMIGA tablet.
This will lead to a renaissance in terms of the AMIGA brand.
Our AMIGA machines will have an unmistakable AMIGA flavour and should be competitive in the mainstream.
Don't expect us to produce cheap Walmart computers though.
Our motto and what we intend to deliver is
"Beautiful, High Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."
We want to recapture as much of what made the original AMIGA great as we can, and you, as forum members are in a position to guide this development to a large extent through your suggestions and an open dialogue.
You all know how to contact me if you would like to discuss your ideas.
Either PM me or e-mail me at lan@commodoreusa.net
We are listening, but your suggestions have to be viable in the mainstream, and not be purely hobby related. We are selling x86 machines....period. That is the only market we believe an AMIGA can flourish in without being hamstrung.
It is a given that we will never be able to please everyone in the community, at least as it exists today.

If things go to plan our website should be relaunched in November...but even then it will likely not portray our full plans which will hopefully be ready for product launch in 2011.
When we have shared our plans in full, closer to product launch, this poll would be more appropriate.

I do not take this burden of being the new bearer of the AMIGA flame lightly, and I will try my best to ensure that our AMIGA machines will be befitting of the hallowed brand.



Lots of hype and nonisence, the perfect successor to AInc if ever there was one.

Maybe you should keep your plans to yourself, atleast until you have something abit more tangible to show than "borrowed" artwork and empty words.



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T-J 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 17:22:44
#129 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Aug-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@BigBentheAussie
Quote:

Confusion? Really? And if so, who do you think will benefit? Surely not us.
Would you want us to drop the the little 'x' entirely and be confused with the classics? Can you imagine that in conversation?
When x was included in our model names it was not at all influenced by A-Eon's model name. It was actually carried over from the suffix we'd been using for the C64 ie C64x as in x86 based. A-Eon was the last thing we were thinking of. I was actually surprised when this was first brought up. It really is a little anal retentive of you to be so hung up on that. I imagine you're going to be freaked out when we release an A1000x too.


Of course you were surprised.

Well, I wasn't expecting a constructive reply anyway. It was an act of purest optimism to take you up on your offer of engaging in an open dialogue in the first place. If you haven't got anything else to say about what I've suggested, I think I'll leave you to it.

Last edited by T-J on 17-Oct-2010 at 05:23 PM.

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Mechanic 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 17:39:03
#130 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Jul-2003
Posts: 2007
From: Unknown

To:
DaveyD, _steve_ , Sibbi, Mark, All Moderators, site developers;

This may seem 'off topic', but since this topic involves modifying this site.
*************************

"One of the newer portals for the community, the site is a breath of fresh air.... a great online home
for those of us who like to find out the latest Amiga news...."

"All in all it's an engaging site worth adding to your hot-list".

*first and foremost a friendly place where the Amiga community can communicate without being
flamed, second my love of Amigas, and third my love of web site development.*

*and keeping it the friendly place we originally aimed to create.*

*It turned out to be a nice flame free amiga orientated community and I never turned back.*

*I heard about AmigaWorld in 2002 I think it was. I figured that I would find the same bickering so I
did not visit until early 2003. After a few months of shadowing the site I liked what I saw so I joined
up. I really like this site.*

This is your site. You know who supports your vision, and those that would just as soon
destroy it. Who donates to its operation, and those that spit on your TOS.

Have a meeting. Rewrite the About page (please) and the TOS as necessary to get this site
to where you want it. Add, subtract, modify what ever you feel is proper to keep YOUR
vision of this place to your standards and desires.

Get it done. Announce it. Post it. The present and future members will then have their
choice weather to remain, leave, join, support, or simply say 'Not for me'.

Most Sincerely,

Mechanic.

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koft 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 17:39:37
#131 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Mar-2007
Posts: 493
From: USA, TN, Memphis

@BigBentheAussie

Cute website. Love the design work y'all have put into the pc64 case, very interesting. On the OS section of your site, would it be possible for you to release a high rez version of the C= and Checkmark logos, those pictures would make a very nice background. Also, do you have any plans to make cases for some of the hardware projects floating around such as the minimig?

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rebraist 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 17:45:59
#132 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Jul-2010
Posts: 148
From: Italia - Napoli

Do you like to be hobbists?
This is the result...
Did you really think that you could have continued forever and ever to play with the dead and no one would have come to say: "hi children, recreation time has ended!"
amiga, commodore, apple and so on are brands. and, luckily, sell.
c-usa has rights on these names.
we can like it or not, but commodore amiga (all in one keyboard pc) belongs to them.
i really don't like the idea it will be "a simple pc" without something special (at least the os), but "commodore amiga" is theirs and they have the right to sell, distribute, promote and so on commodore amiga.
the other machines are simply no commodore amigas...
one last thing: weren't you the guys that hate mcewen and ainc? who's put on ppc road, that road you like it so much? ainc, i think...
best luck to commodore usa but surely i won't buy another pc. i already have my little boing ball stickers on my aros box black case. they're enough.
really i'm angry... and mainly angry with hyperion and ainc.
still do you like to be hobbists?

edit:
as paolone said would be very unkind, unpolite or whatever, if a new "friend" will arrive, after having bought a commodore amiga pc, and we look at him a bit strange. please let's not be "applefankids". we're amigan gentlemen...

Last edited by rebraist on 17-Oct-2010 at 05:47 PM.

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number6 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 17:47:14
#133 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@Mechanic

Quote:
To:DaveyD, _steve_ , Sibbi, Mark, All Moderators, site developers;


@_Steve_

Let me correct Mechanic's post for you.
He's basically asking you to sit down and discuss this with yourself. Heh.

#6

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rebraist 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 17:51:09
#134 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Jul-2010
Posts: 148
From: Italia - Napoli

the new this.site manifest!!!
aworld.net.manifest("the amiga computer community portal website" - "commodore amiga");
i think there would be a segfault...
what a paradox

Last edited by rebraist on 17-Oct-2010 at 05:52 PM.
Last edited by rebraist on 17-Oct-2010 at 05:51 PM.

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Hondo 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 17:54:35
#135 ]
Super Member
Joined: 10-Apr-2003
Posts: 1370
From: Denmark

@NathanH

Quote:
I would think that increasing the number of Amiga enthusiasts that are welcomed by this site would increase the number of users in all Amiga-inspired incarnations


Well said! - of course amigaworld.net should welcome anything amiga

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NathanH 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 18:30:04
#136 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Mar-2005
Posts: 111
From: Caldwell, Idaho USA

@_Steve_

Thank you for your reply.

I guess that I have made an a-priori assumption that a purchaser of a Commodore USA Amiga would go to the Commodore USA site for specific support of their purchase; especially if they had never heard of "Amiga" in any other context. I.e., if I buy a "Dell" and have troubles with the hardware I go to the Dell site for specifics and/or suggestions for other sites for non-Dell related items such as OEM Windows or compatible third-party hardware addons.

Likewise, I expect that those that purchased it because of past associations with "Amiga" are interested in the Amiga-aspects of the product; whatever that might be at some point (BigBen has somewhat indicated their tack - look/feel, UAE, AROS, etc.). As such, they are likely sophisticated enough users to know the difference between expecting Ubuntu or x86 support from a site like AmigaWorld so likely only (newly) found the site itself or are interested in posting here solely because of their "Amiga" background and the Amiga-aspects within the product.

An operating system contains aspects of look/feel/user_experience. They are apparently trying to make Ubuntu or Windows or whatever look/feel/operate in the Amiga way. As such, I would think that discussion of the Amiga-aspects of their product is quite on-topic to this site - where there are many experts already present -; simply a different context. A good context to collect/manage such discussions would be a Commodore USA Amiga forum.

As such, I expect the content posted in a Commodore USA forum on this enthusiast site to be similar to that in other forums; how to advance "Amiga" in whole but from a differing perspective of what "Amiga" means to that person. Especially in their beginning I think that it is in everyone's interest to have a place to discuss their gameplan and how we can mutually benefit each other. Thanks.

Nathan

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Nimrod 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 19:02:51
#137 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2010
Posts: 1223
From: Untied Kingdom

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:

Confusion? Really? And if so, who do you think will benefit? Surely not us.


Since I do not wish to be banned for life by the moderators I will not give a full reply.
Suffice to say that it is good for the roses.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 19:03:51
#138 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1351
From: CRO

When it comes to customers of C=USA and newcomers to amiga brand I think the best thing to do for them would be for C=USA to open a community portal oriented towards x86 amigas and commodore.



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number6 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 19:10:30
#139 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:
When it comes to customers of C=USA and newcomers to amiga brand I think the best thing to do for them would be for C=USA to open a community portal oriented towards x86 amigas and commodore.


Sure. That's an option too.
But currently (and I realize that only means currently) if you use google (people still use that right?), the word Amiga gets you headed straight to Amiga.com. (1st entry after wiki).
You might want to think about addressing that since it's still a blank page.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 17-Oct-2010 at 07:11 PM.

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BillE 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 19:21:54
#140 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Nov-2003
Posts: 1195
From: Northern Scotland

@jas_mc

Quote:

Quote:
Drinking a Budweisser out of a glass with Theakstons Old Peculiar written on it will not make the drink a good beer.


You're rightBut if Theakston's went bust and Budweiser bought the "Old Peculiar" brand for their flagship beverage, and sold it legally under the name Old Peculiar, then that's what the fizzy stuff would be: Old Peculiar. Sad for real ale fans but true.


The thing is no one that knew what OP was meant to be like would buy it. The same would go for the C= so called Amigas, they simply are not Amigas nor have any relationship to an Amiga.

Actually Theakstons *was* for a while bought out by Scottish and Newcastle, the big brand responsible for that dire McEwens stuff. OP did really go downhill, thank goodness one of the Theakstons bought it back and brew proper stuff again.

Regardless of what some overpaid and unscrupulous lawyer may "say" the drink would never be Theakstons Old Peculiar, people would know better. The name is nothing by itself. Especially if was over cold, over fizzy crap with no taste.

That is what C= USA seem to miss. The name Commodore *once* meant something as they made good products which in turn made the Commodore name stand out. Today Commodore means NOTHING, other than a company that tried to sell PCs instead of what they were good at, so went bust



Quote:
I think the Commodore Amigas proposed by Commodore USA will be pointless


Exactly because Commodore is dead, the Amiga is already existing so all this legal #### means nothing.

In fact I wish we could just by Hyperion computers as the Amiga was something that died ages ago in the minds of the public so the name no longer means anything. We of course know that our Hyperion or MOS machines are Amigas as both descend from the origianl.

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