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      /  [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
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Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 Next Page )
Poll : How should AW.net handle Commodore USA's Amigas?
Treat it as off-topic except in General Technology, Alt Amiga OS, & Free for all.
Create a new forum for Commodore USA Amigas.
Allow it to be discussed in Amiga general chat like any other Amiga (classic, AmigaOne etc).
Some other option (explain in a post).
 
PosterThread
number6 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 16-Oct-2010 13:47:26
#21 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@_Steve_

Quote:
Well perhaps just create a Commodore B.V. licensed products area instead


Heh. Good one.
But seriously, I understand why you draw the line between if AROS then Alt Amiga OS vs if ubuntu then general or separate forum.
But even IF one of these companies secures AROS, I think it could clog up the Alt Amiga OS forum with hardware posts and issue. I don't see that as fair to AROS and MorphOS.
After all, this same planning went into dividing the Amiga OS forums into several smaller forums to keep OS, applications, and hardware separate, no?

#6

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number6 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 16-Oct-2010 14:00:39
#22 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@BigBentheAussie

Would appreciate your input here Leo.
Staff is undoubtedly considering your feelings on this as well, not just the AW membership.

#6

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amigang 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 16-Oct-2010 14:53:53
#23 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 2018
From: Cheshire, England

@number6
I was nearly going to go with treat it off topic, but as other have pointed out its is a little early to judge what they are doing and what they will be offering, so far very little at the moment I would nearly say treat it as spam as they dont even have a product to advertise, apart from Commodore Phoenix which is a simple a re branded cybernet pc.

I remember when Commodore Gaming PC where out on the market, I think there may have been one tread on it about the nice commodore casing and that's all this new company should of got not the dozens of treads it has got.

Maybe when they have a product that is there own, like a custom built case, then they should perhaps get there own section, but for right now I think all future threads on the subject should be locked until a product is released and there are more than enough threads already made to continue the discussion.

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redfox 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 16-Oct-2010 15:51:47
#24 ]
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Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 2064
From: Canada

@fairlanefastback

IMHO, it belongs in the same catagory that we used for all those discussions about products from ACK, Troika, etc.

General Technology

If the hardware products materialize, someday we might see some valid discussion about AROS or Amiga Forever.

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Chuckt 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 16-Oct-2010 17:06:01
#25 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2008
Posts: 445
From: Unknown

Until Commodore USA cleans up their act (stop offending the users) and stop advertising the Commodore name on a PC then I'm not interested. All they are offering are overpriced PC products which I won't buy. Unless they have a corner on the market, I'm sure I can get AROS elsewhere. I can also get a PC forum elsewhere without the hypocricy of being a Commodore.

If they wish to manufacture Amiga products with custom Amiga chips then tell them we will be interested in talking.

If someone wants to have AROS on a Commodore branded case, it doesn't bother me but the case doesn't have to be the center of attention and it can get enough attention in photographs and things like that.

I can't help who comes to my door but Commodore is dead and I would more likely to be welcoming them on Halloween than on the message board. Until Halloween comes around, they can take off the Commodore mask because Commodore is dead. This is how I feel.

Last edited by Chuckt on 16-Oct-2010 at 05:07 PM.

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jas_mc 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 16-Oct-2010 17:51:55
#26 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-May-2010
Posts: 232
From: Unknown

@BillE

Quote:
No, they will be PCs with a label stuck on them.


If Commodore USA is telling the truth about its licensing arrangements and gets the product to sale, then I'm afraid that's exactly what Commodore Amigas will be in the modern day: PCs with a label stuck on them. Sad for Amigans but true.

Quote:
Drinking a Budweisser out of a glass with Theakstons Old Peculiar written on it will not make the drink a good beer.


You're right

But if Theakston's went bust and Budweiser bought the "Old Peculiar" brand for their flagship beverage, and sold it legally under the name Old Peculiar, then that's what the fizzy stuff would be: Old Peculiar. Sad for real ale fans but true.

Quote:
It is what is in the glass that matters not the lable stuck on it.


Again, agree totally

But never lose sight of the fact that Commodore Amiga and all other brands are just sticky labels that can be bought or sold. That's the way that brands work. They're just names.

I think the Commodore Amigas proposed by Commodore USA will be pointless, but at the end of the day, either you do care about the label or you don't. If a label is worthless, then it shouldn't matter if you lose it to someone else. Commodore Amiga is a magical set of syllables in my mind, but really, all it means - all it ever means - is "products that are legally branded and sold as Commodore Amigas".

EDIT: My preference is to keep Commodore Amiga-badged PCs out of AmigaWorld, but then I think you have to make it clear that the forum is for Amiga and Amiga-like OSes. Otherwise anyone who owns any Amiga-branded product might expect a warm welcome at an "Amiga community portal".

Last edited by jas_mc on 16-Oct-2010 at 05:56 PM.

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Hondo 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 16-Oct-2010 18:07:51
#27 ]
Super Member
Joined: 10-Apr-2003
Posts: 1370
From: Denmark

Instead of discussing this you should be discussing why MOS and AROS don't have their own forums on this very site ????????? What's going on here. I made a poll a long time ago which clearly showed that MOS and AROS is very much supported here, so why are there only specific AOS forums?

Maybe this is why OS4 get's so much heat from the usual suspects....because they can't find their own forum (only maybe)

and when the time comes...if ever, then Commodore should have their own forums.

News on the frontpage should have a color and a tag related to the "camp" they come from. This would make it so much easier to see the news that interest a user from a particular camp.

Just my two kroner


edit:typos

Last edited by Hondo on 16-Oct-2010 at 07:13 PM.
Last edited by Hondo on 16-Oct-2010 at 06:09 PM.

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Manu 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 16-Oct-2010 19:03:15
#28 ]
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Joined: 4-Feb-2004
Posts: 1561
From: Unknown

@Hondo

I'm with Hondo here, well said!
Thanks for being fair.

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ruben 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 16-Oct-2010 20:19:40
#29 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 364
From: Portugal

@jas_mc

Quote:
Otherwise anyone who owns any Amiga-branded product might expect a warm welcome at an "Amiga community portal".


Yes, and we wouldn't want that, now would we?
Please give up the narrow minded, small village mentality. We need to get everyone that has some interest in anything Amiga related, be it MOS, AROS, OS4, classic, emulation, Natami, C=USA, whatever....Either a new forum or General Technology, Alt Amiga OS, & Free for all sound good to me.

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_Steve_ 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 16-Oct-2010 20:20:16
#30 ]
Team Member
Joined: 17-Oct-2002
Posts: 6807
From: UK

@Hondo

There is no possibility that news is going to be colour coordinated. To be fair, I don't think there should be a "camp" colouring system employed for that - news is news irrespective of the system it is for. The title of the article is usually sufficient to see what system it is for.

Regarding the splitting up of AROS/MorphOS from the Alt OS area, at the moment I do not see that the number of posts in there actually warrants it. Most are for MorphOS presently.

As I recall, some of the polls to whichh you refer were aimed to remove all non Amiga posts from the site entirely and banish them to their respective sites (AROS-exec and MorphZone). We did not set out to be a support site for those alternative Operating Systems, but will not stop users from discussing them (and helping where possible). But problems surrounding them are best aimed at their specific supporting sites where more users of them and their developers are found.

Even if I were to create two separate places for MorphOS and AROS right now, I doubt it would solve the in-fighting that still takes place in other threads unrelated to them - that is sadly human nature.

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jas_mc 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 16-Oct-2010 21:34:06
#31 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-May-2010
Posts: 232
From: Unknown

@ruben

Can't give up the small village mentality 'cos I don't have one.

Diversification in a brand is no bad thing - I can think of a few Linux PC-y things I personally would like to do under the Amiga brand - but if a brand diversifies too much, it ceases to become a helpful theme for a forum.

I think a forum should have a coherant theme and target demographic, simply so you end up with a community of people who have something in common.

When I said they'd turn up expecting a "warm welcome", I didn't mean Amigans should flame them or shun them as outsiders. But if someone turns up wanting to talk about the Ubuntu software centre or something, they might be surprised when they don't get many replies, because the majority of people didn't register here to talk about Ubuntu. I don't think it would be helpful to create subforums if Amiga Inc started making phones or mp3 players.

Bear in mind that if Commodore USA succeeds, the vast, vast majority of their users won't have even heard of AmigaOS 4.1, AmigaOnes, Sams, Aros, MorphOS, Natami, or Amiga Forever. Simply because so few people in the world have heard of those things. If Commodore USA ends up in a position where most of their customers are "scene" people, then they'll have sold few enough units to either go bust or leave the market. So what's the point of having an influx of Linux users who don't know anything about the kind of things that are discussed here every day? For better or for worse, this is already a long-standing community with a clear "theme".

I don't get this "we've all got to band together" stuff. It's not a competition to have the biggest or busiest forum so we can try to prove to Mac and PC users that Amiga is still thriving. I think people should form online communities to talk about (or flame each other over) shared points of interest. The topic of discussion on this and similar forums is "things that either seek to continue, update, or recreate the original Amiga computing experience." Adding a single manufacturer of Linux PCs to the mix simply because of branding just doesn't make sense.

Of course, you can talk about pretty much anything in any forum that has off-topic sections...

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paolone 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 16-Oct-2010 21:50:55
#32 ]
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Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1143
From: Unknown

I have to disagree.

I'm sorry to be the molestor, but I can't really stand people that once said "AROS/MOS/Whatever haven't THE NAME, so they aren't Amiga", and now are saying the exact opposite: "eve in C=USA's Amigas have THE NAME, they aren't Amiga". Like it or not, the fact that they will have THE NAME, officially makes them "the new Amiga computers", even if they don't run the original OS or its evolution form Hyperion. Even if they don't run AROS at all.

And, like it or not, there are far more potential customers for those Amiga-branded PC clones than the ones willing to buy a X1000 or a SAM. Those customers will gladly buy a computer whose name is Amiga, and if they come here they will simply expect to be treated as legitimate part of this community. And that's because once there were Commodore Amiga computers with custom chips and AmigaOS, and tomorrow there will be Commodore Amiga computers with Ubuntu, AROS or whatsoever.

So yes, it will be a time for confusion. But a solution will be necessary, and closing doors or badly treating people that could easily become "the majority" in few months, is extremely short-sighted.

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clusteruk 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 16-Oct-2010 22:20:42
#33 ]
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Joined: 20-Nov-2008
Posts: 1544
From: Marston Moretaine, England

@paolone

Agreed

If we get people from sales of C=USA sales arriving they should be welcomed and then convinced that using Aros, (which is there only choice) will be fun. It could be the start of something good and I for one look forward to there arrival as long as they do not ask for Windows or Ubuntu advice

This is a chance to spread the Amiga philosophy and way of computing.


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samo79 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 16-Oct-2010 22:34:37
#34 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 13-Feb-2003
Posts: 3505
From: Italy, Perugia

Treat it as total off-topic as this C= only offer standard PC with Windows or other not Amiga related things ---

At this point how about opening a PC Windows area ?

Someone can say that a PC Windows can also run AROS or not ?

Last edited by samo79 on 16-Oct-2010 at 10:35 PM.

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jas_mc 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 16-Oct-2010 22:42:14
#35 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-May-2010
Posts: 232
From: Unknown

@paolone

Quote:
I have to disagree. I'm sorry to be the molestor, but I can't really stand people that once said "AROS/MOS/Whatever haven't THE NAME, so they aren't Amiga", and now are saying the exact opposite: "eve in C=USA's Amigas have THE NAME, they aren't Amiga". Like it or not, the fact that they will have THE NAME, officially makes them "the new Amiga computers", even if they don't run the original OS or its evolution form Hyperion. Even if they don't run AROS at all.


Paolone, I'm not sure who you think you're disagreeing with, because I've argued this exact same point myself.

Where we differ is, to me, this particular question has nothing to do with what is or isn't a official Amiga.

AmigaWorld isn't some kind of public service forum that is legally mandated to fairly balance every piece of activity that involves the word "Amiga", official or not. It's a site run by guys who are, presumably, not especially interested in Ubuntu or generic PCs, and attended by likeminded individuals.

What if the Amiga brand was licensed for something unrelated to home computing or any of the Amiga-like OSes? Say, a successful line of Windows-powered touchscreen ticket dispensers. Would you want that to be part of the forum's remit? Or would you say, presumably the guys who run the forum set it up because they're interested in certain things, and the guys who come here are interested in certain things, and we don't have to embrace something completely different whenever a brand is bought, sold, or licensed?

What if Amiga left computers all together and started licensing the name out for GPS? Or digital cameras? Or ice cream...?

I get the impression that people have come to think of the extended Amiga community as something they're "part of" and should "support", but really, people should just run and join forums for the stuff they're interested in. It's daft to welcome something unrelated into an online community just because it shares the same branding (and equally daft to try to shun something meaningfully linked like AROS or MorphOS, just because it doesn't have the branding). The backbone of a community shouldn't be a brand - it should be commonality of interest (and not just interest in a brand!).

@clusteruk - nice idea... suck them in and convert them... but absolutely can't imagine it happening. The Acorn-branded Windows laptops didn't get anyone interested in RISC OS (which people are still using!) and this feels like a similar story

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ruben 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 16-Oct-2010 22:57:58
#36 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 364
From: Portugal

@jas_mc

Quote:
I think a forum should have a coherant theme and target demographic


If it becomes real, C=USA's machine is a replica of the Amiga 500 case. If a product like that is not coherent and doesn't target the demographic of a site about Amiga, I honestly don't know what does.

Quote:
Bear in mind that if Commodore USA succeeds, the vast, vast majority of their users won't have even heard of AmigaOS 4.1, AmigaOnes, Sams, Aros, MorphOS, Natami, or Amiga Forever.


Correct! And that is precisely why we want to bring them here. Most of the people who'd buy C=USA PCs would do so because of the nostalgia, most likely because they were Amiga users back in the day. A lot of them could easily become interested in the other Amiga related things.

Quote:
It's not a competition to have the biggest or busiest forum

No, but it is a matter of having enough users to support interesting new developments that you and I can enjoy. Do you think it costs nothing to develop hardware or an Operating System? Companies and individuals behind all this need money to live (even Aros), and this comes from the user base.

Less users = Less money = Less development.

We're not in position to be picky about who might be interested in our community. Trying to keep the Amiga closed to some sort of "enlightened elite" will only lead to community shrinkage. How much fun will this site be when all you have is a couple dozen old timers hanging around? We have to think "Growth", always. The definition of "Amiga" must be broad, petty intra-community discussions about "The True Amiga" must end.

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sundown 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 16-Oct-2010 23:01:26
#37 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5120
From: Right here...

@paolone

Quote:
Like it or not, the fact that they will have THE NAME, officially makes them "the new Amiga computers", even if they don't run the original OS or its evolution form Hyperion. Even if they don't run AROS at all.

You can play the name game all you want, Amiga Inc & Commodore are dead to most of us. To me, AI & c=usa are not part of the "real" Amiga community.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 16-Oct-2010 23:07:05
#38 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1351
From: CRO

@jas_mc

Quote:
nice idea... suck them in and convert them... but absolutely can't imagine it happening. The Acorn-branded Windows laptops didn't get anyone interested in RISC OS (which people are still using!) and this feels like a similar story


Well, I have to agree with you on that one... but let's say that C=USA sells 10 000 Amigas(per year)... I think that's a realistic number if we factor in the entire desktop line + laptops... in fact, I'd say if properly marketed, they could sell a helluva lot more, but let's take a very conservative number. If 1 in 10 of those users takes a interest in AROS, it could be huge(for AROS folks at least). I can see AROS taking a lead in the amiga-like OS "battle" for users and coders. I know a 1000 new users is not much, but in today's terms, that's probably doubling the number of people that use AROS.

But I'd like to see them(AROS developers and C=USA if they do go for AROS) introducing some modern solutions to AROS and, khm-khm BRAKING OS 3.1 compatibility... I'd say going to 64bit would present a perfect opportunity for that and running AROS32 in AROS64 could solve possibly all compatibility problems for older apps(I've read some posts on aros-exec going in similar direction).

If that happens, I would be pleased to use and code in AROS as well


edit:typos

Last edited by WolfToTheMoon on 16-Oct-2010 at 11:08 PM.

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jas_mc 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 16-Oct-2010 23:32:58
#39 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-May-2010
Posts: 232
From: Unknown

@ruben

Well the idea that incoming people of any kind is a good thing is similar to clusteruk's suggestion, but like I said to him - it didn't work for Acorn and my prediction is that history will repeat itself.

On an unrelated note, seriously... please stopping putting words in my mouth and making assumptions about my position that aren't justified by what I've written! The village mentality comment was uncalled for and I've got no idea what you're referring to here:

Quote:
Trying to keep the Amiga closed to some sort of "enlightened elite" will only lead to community shrinkage... petty intra-community discussions about "The True Amiga" must end.


Like I said in my last post, I literally don't care what is or isn't a true or official Amiga, and I have argued *against* those who say that Commodore Amiga PCs wouldn't be Commodore Amigas. I certainly have never said or hinted that I regard AmigaOS, MorphOS, or AROS users as an "enlightened elite" (lovable die-hard fools more like). It's almost like you've scanned my post for keywords and just tried to shoehorn me into one of the AmigaWorld poster stereotypes.

To put it bluntly, I don't care enough about the survival of the Amiga community to compromise on what does and doesn't interest me in the hope of attracting newbies. I think it's fine to let something die a death or walk away from it, rather than extending its life by moving too far away from the original point of it.

Where brands are involved, if they go in a direction you don't like, you can acknowledge that it's a legitimate incarnation of the brand but simply not be interested. I think the majority of people who come to these forums don't want to embrace the Commodore Amiga proposed by Commodore USA, and personally I think the forum should do likewise.

In five years time, if this forum is full of people chatting about their Commodore Amiga Ubuntu PCs and only 2% of the active members remember Aros, Hyperion, MorphOS, or Natami, then the community I know will dead - just as dead as if the forum's deserted and there haven't been any new Amiga-related topics at all. I don't see how one is less dead than the other.

If you don't have forums dedicated to discussing Amiga-like OSes, I'm not sure how people are going to learn about them. I think you'd stand more chance of capitalising on the success of Commodore USA (if it happens) by preserving AmigaWorld and the other old forums as places to discuss Amiga-like OSes. People might stumble across them searching for Commodore Amiga PCs and be curious about what they read - especially if you have a prominent faq designed to catch and educate them.

Ultimately, like I said, amigaworld.net isn't some kind of public service. If the owners agree with you, then Commodore Amiga PC users will be welcomed and encouraged. If they agree with me, then the remit of the site will be refocused on the discussion of Amiga and Amiga-like OSes, plus the hardware that runs them - and Ubuntu boxes of any kind will remain off-topic.

Lastly... I'd be surprised if Commodore USA doesn't go the same way as the relaunched Acorn brand anyway, so this might all be moot

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Plaz 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 1:28:41
#40 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Oct-2003
Posts: 1573
From: Atlanta

Unless they're going to seriously partner with one form or another of Amiga like OS projects, I can't see how it qualifies any differntly than a typical x86 topic around here. Without additional info, it seems they best they can do is an x86 running Aros or UAE like so many others.

I haven't read every detail on CUSA, but I can't see by what measure they would hope to prosper by printing Amiga on an x86 case.

Plaz

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