@nimrod7

Quote:

what's the point comparing these two sites ? how about a-eon site ?

Ruben was only quoting one part of my post.
I had asked about AW traffic and C= traffic, merely to help those who would make the decision about any new forum which might incorporate them.
As it only concerned traffic on 2 sites, there was no need to discuss other websites. Ruben was not ignoring A-Eon or anyone else, if that's what you had thought from his post.

#6

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@Fransexy

Quote:

Acorn computers (2006 company) also thought that bussines sense was to put the brand on a X86 machines instead of invest in ARM computers running RiscOS.Do you know what? the 2006 Acorn computers have disappear whereas RiscOS and their custom ARM based machines are still between us.

Re: Acorn - Yes, so I have read countless times here. Being north american, I'm not as familiar with the Acorn story. Perhaps the same will happen to C=USA in the end - or possibly before they even get off the ground - , but I think that they nonetheless have a better chance at success than they would by creating yet another a PPC-based system to run AOS4 for a potential market of 2000 users at most. The only interest I have in C=USA's success is that they will re-kindle interest in the platform in all of it's forms within a wider audience and that somehow the Amiga platform in all of it's current incarnations will benefit from it one way or another. If we're lucky, we may end up with a rebranded AROS distro that is stable on a common hardware profile, like some other folks have started to do with AROS already. Or this may instead mean a renbranded Linux distro with not only an Amiga look and feel but also with some other forward looking Amiga-only technology added in some distant future. Or perhaps in some alternate or parallel universe where pigs fly, this might mean AOS4's future grandchild ported to and running on x86.

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@elatour

Quote:

I find it quite amusing that there is such a crisis about this C=USA topic when I'm sure that no such crisis existed when the Amiga PPC Linux forum was discussed

I realize you are here somewhat off and on, so you probably missed the key.
People do tend to play follow the leader. Not all, by any means...but some.
Ben threatened legal action against C=USA almost immediately after their initial arrivial on AW. It was only human nature then, for many supporters to also try to show them in an unfavorable light.

#6

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@elatour

Quote:

Perhaps the same will happen to C=USA in the end - or possibly before they even get off the ground - , but I think that they nonetheless have a better chance at success than they would by creating yet another a PPC-based system to run AOS4 for a potential market of 2000 users at most

They claim to have the kind of money that would be needed to make affordable PPC hardware. If OS4 capable hardware was significantly cheaper then the potential market would be larger then 2000. However they would probably end up with a large volume of unsold stock so it isn't worth the risk.
Mind you I think they are taking a huge risk here anyway and there is a good chance they will end up in that situation anyway.

I really don't know why they decided to license the Commodore and Amiga names anyway, especially just stick on some X86 PC. This model is proven to fail time and time again, so if C= USA don't fail they deserve some kind of prize.

As for C=USA support on Amigaworld then I think they have to give a little to get a little. If they are just selling Windows/Ubuntu PC's then they should set up their own support forums.

@Rob

To finalize the issue: voting shows it can be either discussed on general topics (when its done anyway) like AROS and general hardware. It might be good for AROS, as well as dose of this CBM USA Amiga (as it would be properly named, since Commodore Amiga existed before) euphoria is not really realted to this community.

CBM USA ignored all the community desires., even to incorporate info on current AmigaOS 4/MOS development, to improve AROS etc. and significantly changed the info on their web site droping mentioning of their own OS, WinUAE, AROS ...

Their "Amiga" page currently indicates old Amiga logo, which was replaced with BoingBag, and that would be all.

Aussies and other fans efforts to prove its real Amiga are a bit unrealistic, and do not indicate their affiliation to real Amiga community, as well as hash words used againts amiga.org and AROS developers.

Let them create their own user base.

If we look realistic, it might be a sucessfull product, but also is a cheat using or abusing the name of belowed computer.

Then again, X1000 was publicly demonstated, OS beta testing started, showed with current AmigaOS 4.1.2 as work in progress, while Commodore Amiga is still a press realise. Even their "Case design" even A-Eon was asked about in their recent interview, is still A1200 recreation known as Amiga Dream. If they make this case ITX and on sale, that might be a good case for A1 Micro, SAM EP as community desired long time ago.

The traffic is generated by a general community approach with full Commodore Amiga name, quite unaware of AmigaOS development, often even after OS 3.0

No, situation is not the same as with Linux PPC since it was shipped with A1 until first developer OS4 versions started to run. When looking to Amiga history it existed before as APUS and 68k Linux for Amiga Classics/PPC equipped Classics and was well add on to AmigaOS in development, as it is even today.

It was alternative OS running on AmigaOS supported bord, while CBM USA Amiga is standard PC board put to run WinUAE/AROS which can be run on most x86 boards anyway. So there is nothing new but the case (maybe) and the badge.

If the "Chinese hardware" is mentioned as bad bage to CBM USA, that is because
current Amiga hardware is produced in Europe, which gives a lot of belief in durability since its not only worklabour cheap but also low quality components and life of 2-3 years that makes current Chinese made PC components so cheap.

Only constructivness I see from CBM USA promoters here is criticsim of what OS4 needs to be more developed OS. That`s good, but lack of belief that OS4 (or MOS) can grow is completely unAmigan, while promoting their x86 as Amigesque.

So, if I manage to buy some licence from CBM USA or AmigaiNC to call my toaster AmigaToaster, does it make it Amiga in more then a name?

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@Hammer

Amiga (ESCOM) announced transition to PPC in 1995 but failed to deliver.
So, there is a lot of legal mumbo junbo with owning the name and investing
that stoped OS4 for seeing light before 2006. For so little developed OS, its
quite developed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC#History

PPC was supposed to be Apple and IBM alternative to Windows world,
but failure to deliver boards and desktop OS`s (OS/2 and Windows NT beyond 4)
and gain wider developer userbase has lead us to where we are, not the obsoletenes
of PPC techonology per se.

Yes, PentiumPro was also a failure in terms of sales, but provided excellent base to every x86 chip of today, so much I call today x86 chips "P6 on steroids"

History cannot be changed, but ATOM chips show something different:
Not so much CPU power is needed to run most of apps of today, if OS is properly done.
In these terms, PPC hardware is not as much obsolete as you would like to present it.
Just AmigaOS needs to be developed beyond and more quantities of hardware made and sold to get it cheaper. Now when a lot of PPC Amiga software is done, only solution even for OS 4 x86 would be kind of Rosetta Stone PPC emulator, that only Apple has done well so far

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@vox

Quote:

vox wrote: @Rob Aussies and other fans efforts to prove its real Amiga are a bit unrealistic, and do not indicate their affiliation to real Amiga community, as well as hash words used againts amiga.org and AROS developers. Let them create their own user base. If we look realistic, it might be a sucessfull product, but also is a cheat using or abusing the name of belowed computer.

They're after the userbase. They're after the name.

I'm not going to lie to my son and say the PC is a Commodore.

If they had something like $33 million dollars to advertise, how come none of that has come here?

@vox

Quote:

Not so much CPU power is needed to run most of apps of today, if OS is properly done.

Yes.

Quote:

In these terms, PPC hardware is not as much obsolete as you would like to present it.

Is there any PowerPC CPU comparable with Core 2? No...
For your information, 970MP (5 years old!) is still the fastest PowerPC CPU (at least until e5500 arrives). Core i5 is more than 3 times faster (in sense Y=3*X) in single core operations (and has also 4 cores with 2 threads/core...).

What PowerPC CPU you can choose for mini notebook/netbook? etc.

@pavlor
I am experimenting with a powerxcell in my Aros box ... so sure there are PPC Cpu's comparable.

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@phoenixkonsole

Quote:

am experimenting with a powerxcell in my Aros box ... so sure there are PPC Cpu's comparable.

Do you have any benchmarks? Original (old) Cell (like in PS3) had not that impressive PPE.

Last edited by pavlor on 18-Oct-2010 at 09:08 PM.

@pavlor

I am speaking of that fast Celeron Pentium III is
good enough to run e.g. WinXP with Office 2003 and Firefox,
which is most of what people need.

In those terms of power (surf, mp3, office) PPC is not underpowered.

My few years old dual core Athlon has a lot of hosepower, 2GB of RAM,
but yet I just feel a bit of comfort in XP or Win7 and none of "gigaZ".
So, its more a benchmark myth then a real daily use experience.

Point is PPC is much more powerfull then any 68k Amiga ever was
or Natami/Minimig will ever be.
Some of the PPC designs like dual core Apple and Cell were comparable at the times,
however simply there is no one no longer investing in making chips that can run
old Mac OS X realise, a bit older Linux or last AmigaOS.

So, please lave this argument alone. And even CBM USA is not a strong PC,
if you forget the price, I believe in real tests X1000 would be faster equiped with fast RAM and nice Radeon.

Back to subject, who can afford it (and I can`t) reason to buy X1000 is to have
most powerful OS4 and PowerPC Linux computer avail now as new.

Reason to buy CBM USA Amiga is to fool people you have new Amiga,
when you can do all the same on your standard desktop or laptop PC.

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@vox

Quote:

which is most of what people need.

You need much more power for games and emulators. I can play Dungeon Keeper in DosBox on Core 2 based computer of my brother, try this on Pegasos II...

Quote:

In those terms of power (surf, mp3, office) PPC is not underpowered.

Of course.

Quote:

if you forget the price, I believe in real tests X1000 would be faster equiped with fast RAM and nice Radeon.

X1000 will be fully comparable with Pentium D based computers with same specifications. (Enough for most today applications and even games.)

Quote:

Back to subject, who can afford it (and I can`t) reason to buy X1000 is to havemost powerful OS4 and PowerPC Linux computer avail now as new.

Yes, that is my plan for 2011.

Quote:

Reason to buy CBM USA Amiga is to fool people you have new Amiga,

Maybe. However, I don´t think it is so bad, if they want to gain some money this way.

@pavlor

And I hope you will be able to play Dungeon Keepr 2 in DOSBox once you buy X1000. So it will extend AmigaOS possibilities due to the muscles

However, I will be able to reach just EP440 with East European standard, and I will be satisfied with it. But I cross fingers for all good people that will support X1000, as it`s a long road for people with 300 euros salary to reach it. However, I will not give money to CBM USA knowing that I can do whatever they intend to on my old Athlon X2.

I don`t blame CBM USA for realising any new machine, just for abusing the Commodore Amiga (Commodore Amiga 500 by the Auzzies thread name) and not informing people AmigaOS actually exists. AS well as Amiga Inc kind of gloomy scheme of not actualy knowing what will they bundle, since they sliped their huge OS list to only Linux now.

And that`s exactly what my next EP440 (EP460 or X1000 one day) could also run well. So I don`t see what is to be found there exciting no matter how much Aussie and few dudes insist in it. Neither why should it be of any more hype here. It won some hype to AROS community, obviously, but they were hashly left out that not even a slight precent of the income will be invested in them. Even that Amiga side of the CBM USA Amiga is based on AROS. And WinUAE Scheme is gloomy unless they contact
Hyperion and Cloanto to buy legal kickstart and other files needed. So it will hardly became even a good Amiga emulated machine, like my AmiKIt with my legal OS 3.5.

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Maybe I'm being paranoid, but a thought struck me today.

As they "are now Amiga", it would be within reason that C=USA could issue "take down" notices to sites like this one day. It would make this whole question mute eh?

Plaz

@Plaz

Companies have tried to control Amiga forums before, ANN.LU and Amiga.org are two examples

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Yes, I recall. But they didn't have the muscle to back it up. A.Inc of the past could rarely even retain a lawyer. C=USA might be a differnt story. Just playing devil's advocate here. Not trying to paint them as the evil empire or any thing.

A.Inc of old saw these sites and users as their customer base. C=USA is taking such a bold new tact that such sites could be seen as a confusion to their new market.

BTW, Amiga.org actually had some type of agreement with A.Inc from way back when.

Plaz

Last edited by Plaz on 19-Oct-2010 at 01:26 AM.
Last edited by Plaz on 19-Oct-2010 at 01:21 AM.

@Plaz

I'm not talking about Amiga Inc, anyway its water under the bright,
her is a clue: you might look it up who did CK work for?

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 19-Oct-2010 at 02:02 AM.

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@Plaz

You are paranoid. They have threatened a bit Amiga.org for using the old Amiga logo, but truth is that they have got the right to use the logo and the name for hardware, not to control the universe.

Also, it remains quite unclear does the product trademark is related to Classic Amiga or this way (they are doing with CBM and Amiga logos) you could just recycle them for ever for non related products.

So, everything Amiga so far remains Amiga, and they are first fake Amiga`s and Commodore`s looking up to Nostalgia, and offering nothing new but All In One cases and old names.

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@Chuckt

Yup, seems they want everything for themselves, explaining it as "leap forward". Leap forward to what? I have a PC too and have tried AROS and WinUAE and I am not going to fall for All In One computer even if it resembles my old A1200

This 33 mil is yet to be proven, and even if there is it, a bit could be given to "x86 Amiga users" (new generation?) to try to push it here, or to websites to publish the news as this is new Commodore Amiga ... And what they will deliver remains yet to be seen. In Amiga world the negatives are:

- The same old fishy bad web site
- No official communication to community requests
- dealing with dead company Amiga Inc that has no real credits here
and interesting, to be only one they have licenced tha name to milk some money
at the end.Such CBM USA PC endevour probably since they could pay more then Acube (which requested it a long time ago)

In PC world
- Nothing new about their product apart fron custom case
- Not to strong specs that can fade in one year
- Shipping default with Limux to cut the price, but yet it directs them to hobby world
- Competing to net tops, laptops by specs and desktops by price

In PC and Amiga gaming world
- Not building AROS to be a real nostalgia replacement (See, its WB 3.x and its faast!)
- Not buying ROMS and OS 3.9 licences/AmiKit to make emulated 68k envirovment

So let them do their thing, so far they have same status as X-1000 and EP460 "yet to be done". EP460 is on horizon, X1000 will be further demonstrate and CBM USA is still on press realises ...

And after all, they expect support, credits even customers and forums?

This level of hype is too much, not worthy of more of my time.

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@vox

Quote:

You are paranoid

Yeah, you're probably right.

And for the rest of it I'm not specifically talking about currnet 2010 A.Inc, but previous incarnations.

Sorry N.A.A., I'm not up enough on my Amiga history triva to remember who CK is right off. Probably could google it easily enough though to jog my memory.

Plaz