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Manu
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Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net Posted on 19-Oct-2010 20:41:05
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Super Member |
Joined: 4-Feb-2004 Posts: 1561
From: Unknown | | |
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| @AmiDelf2
No we don't need AmigaOS to go x86, not anymore since AROS devs has worked hard throughout the years so it's better to support AROS if you want to have high end + affordable hardware. I was pointing my finger back 10 years ago.
But of course to have gone x86 back then would have helped. Amigas biggest problem has been the price. AROS biggest problem is that it has been seen as a step child.
And look how AROS now has catched up to OS4 and MorphOS that shouldn't have been possible since we were all those years behind. To me it means all other's has done badly over the years too.
There's no big interest in Amigas anymore, you can't get back the people you lost over the years only a very tiny fraction of them and that's us here. The damage was done long ago. It's irreparable now. _________________ AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current, hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie |
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digitex
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Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net Posted on 19-Oct-2010 20:42:39
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Joined: 4-Oct-2010 Posts: 48
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| @eliyahu
Tnx, guys.
Leo has been taking the brunt of a huge amount of unwarranted & unfounded commentary of late, so I am stepping in for a while as his relief pitcher and pinch hitter. I respect the fact that this is your forum...your ballpark...your bat...and GOD knows, the huge set of balls some of you carry around. But I'm here to play the game..and I'd be more than happy to call it a tie at the bottom of the ninth. But now we're in overtime...and I do plan to win.
digitex |
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WolfToTheMoon
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Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net Posted on 19-Oct-2010 20:47:06
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Joined: 2-Sep-2010 Posts: 1351
From: CRO | | |
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| @number6
Nor am I arguing with you
But, let's face facts... userbase screams backwards compatibility and custom hardware! XXX responds. What do we have? OS that is behind the times, 2 other amiga-like OSes that are behind the times and hardware that is badly supported and... behind the times.
Seriously, should the userbase atleast take some credit for where amiga currently is? Note I'm not blaming anyone, I do not use OS4 nor do I have anything against anyone who does(or MorphOS and AROS). When some here start screaming it's not amiga, you're killing it, maybe they should take a breath and think before they accuse somebody.
Should we not learn to live with each other and at least give C=USA a CHANCE to see what they can produce?
Note, C=USA is NOT after AOS or AmigaOne hardware/trademark. You will still be able to buy and use those.
C=USA wants to try to remake Amiga into what it once was. A mainstream computer for individuals. Really, hardly a crime worth the punishment taken here.
If they fail, it's their money and their time. We, as a userbase, be it OS4 or any other flavour, LOSE NOTHING, and Amiga, as a trademark/brand, loses NOTHING because it has NOTHING to lose.
Give peace a chance
edit: typos Last edited by WolfToTheMoon on 19-Oct-2010 at 08:57 PM. Last edited by WolfToTheMoon on 19-Oct-2010 at 08:49 PM. Last edited by WolfToTheMoon on 19-Oct-2010 at 08:48 PM.
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marko
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Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net Posted on 19-Oct-2010 20:59:21
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Super Member |
Joined: 17-Dec-2007 Posts: 1816
From: Gothenburg, THE front side of Sweden ;), (via Finland), EU | | |
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| @WolfToTheMoon
Then why not take 1 or 2 million USD from these original 30 for ads and port OS4 to x86/x64, then everything would be so much simpler...
Last edited by marko on 19-Oct-2010 at 09:00 PM.
_________________ AmigaOS 4.1 FEu2 on Sam440ep-flex 800MHz 1GB RAM C128, A500+, A1200, A1200/40, AmigaForever 2008+09+16, 5 x86/x64 boxes Still waiting (or dreaming) for the Amiga revolution... m4rko.com/AMIGA |
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eliyahu
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Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net Posted on 19-Oct-2010 21:01:34
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Super Member |
Joined: 3-Mar-2010 Posts: 1957
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA) | | |
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| @digitex
Quote:
Leo has been taking the brunt of a huge amount of unwarranted & unfounded commentary of late, so I am stepping in for a while as his relief pitcher and pinch hitter. I respect the fact that this is your forum...your ballpark...your bat...and GOD knows, the huge set of balls some of you carry around. But I'm here to play the game..and I'd be more than happy to call it a tie at the bottom of the ninth. But now we're in overtime...and I do plan to win. |
yeah, but barry, this shouldn't be adversarial. if you really see yourself as something more than a white goods distributor, if you see yourself as more than just a badge to make money through, then the folks around here will be your biggest fans.
may i make a few suggestions?
1. don't act like everyone here is your enemy; most of us aren't 2. if leo (or you) intend to post around here, remember that you're professionals 3. if you're going to do something to make your brand unique (other than cases), keep us in the loop on that 4. if you're just going to be a re-badge op, that's fine; but don't put on airs like it's anything more than that
i think most of us imagine that, for you, money is the only motivator. well, this is an enthusiast forum. people here love the platform; they're not automatic cheerleaders for whomever has the torch at the moment.
perhaps what we need is a 'mulligan' around here. let's put everything in the past: the threats, the questionable use of graphics, the name-calling, etc., and let's start over. if you're going to be the steward of the brand, and if you want us on your side, it's still possible. but we're gonna need to start from scratch.
-- eliyahu
_________________ "Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal." |
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WolfToTheMoon
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Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net Posted on 19-Oct-2010 21:05:28
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Joined: 2-Sep-2010 Posts: 1351
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| @marko
it would have made sense 10 or so years ago... sadly, today it is not worth it, especially considering C=USA is a start up. That's too risky for them. And also, take in mind HYPERION OWNS OS4. When you start making suggestions like that aimed at a completely other business entity, remember it is not in their power to decide that.
I say let's wait and see what they bring to the table. Maybe you'll be surprised positively. We can only go up from here. _________________
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marko
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Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net Posted on 19-Oct-2010 21:11:53
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Super Member |
Joined: 17-Dec-2007 Posts: 1816
From: Gothenburg, THE front side of Sweden ;), (via Finland), EU | | |
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| @WolfToTheMoon
Quote:
We can only go up from here. |
Yep, let's hope so... Last edited by marko on 19-Oct-2010 at 09:24 PM.
_________________ AmigaOS 4.1 FEu2 on Sam440ep-flex 800MHz 1GB RAM C128, A500+, A1200, A1200/40, AmigaForever 2008+09+16, 5 x86/x64 boxes Still waiting (or dreaming) for the Amiga revolution... m4rko.com/AMIGA |
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Plaz
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Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net Posted on 19-Oct-2010 21:23:38
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Super Member |
Joined: 2-Oct-2003 Posts: 1573
From: Atlanta | | |
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| Welcome digitex, nice of you come by.
I'm intrigued actually by this and maybe you would mind a question or two....
I said above C=USA stands to do well in the right market based on my limited reading. At the same time you've decided to take a very different path than others before. I can understand that from a business point, though it stands that it wouldn't be a popular choice among us who enjoy the classic OS.
Sure, we've been a small and shrinking bunch advocating the return of AmigaOS/hardware and we could use alot of help. However you're primarily going in a completely different direction and market. There's no way I can see that our merry band can do much more than cringe about it though.
So... why the effort to convince us? Do you believe there's something more that can be mutually gained? Personally I hope so and that's why you've come. I'm very interested to know how x86 based warez can appeal to those of us with interest in a different type of OS?
Plaz
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Plaz
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Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net Posted on 19-Oct-2010 21:26:27
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Joined: 2-Oct-2003 Posts: 1573
From: Atlanta | | |
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| @eliyahu
Very well said.
Plaz |
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Rob
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Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net Posted on 19-Oct-2010 21:38:09
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Elite Member |
Joined: 20-Mar-2003 Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales | | |
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| @marko
Quote:
Then why not take 1 or 2 million USD from these original 30 for ads and port OS4 to x86/x64, then everything would be so much simpler... |
It would make more sense to use the money to take existing PowerPC hardware to mass production levels, they'd at least stand a better chance of recouping the millions.
Remember the problem for OS4 is not that it doesn't run on X86, but that the hardware it does run on is very expensive.
Remember also that what Commodore USA is doing is risky enough as it is.Last edited by Rob on 19-Oct-2010 at 09:38 PM.
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Manu
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Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net Posted on 20-Oct-2010 5:29:39
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Joined: 4-Feb-2004 Posts: 1561
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Rob
IMHO that's not possible. You can't demand that anyone should mass procudce a custom board only to make it cheap. You an I know that would end up in a lot of unsold boards in stock which will in 12 months time be considered even more low-end than on release date. You can't trick the market.
The ONLY way to do it is to pick a board already produced where price and performance is fair then put OS4 on that board sell it inside one of CUSA's upcoming cases. And if such a board doesn't exist then you're ideas sadly aren't realistic. Last edited by Manu on 20-Oct-2010 at 05:30 AM.
_________________ AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current, hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie |
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fairlanefastback
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Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net Posted on 20-Oct-2010 5:42:33
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Joined: 22-Jun-2005 Posts: 4886
From: MA, USA | | |
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| @digitex
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We "know", not "think" who we are. We are the ONLY licensed Commodore & Amiga branded manufacturers for these trademarked computer products. WE ARE COMMODORE, & WE ARE AMIGA!! Hasn't that sunk in yet? |
I have not been around much lately so I might very well have missed this. So Amiga, Inc. has publicly confirmed that they granted you a license to the "Amiga" brand? Personally after the engadget articles etc about you I would not believe that until I see something from Amiga, Inc. confirming it. Again, I have not been around much so I probably missed it. Can you just point me to where that is?
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Our AMIGA products will be badged "AMIGA" followed by a space and an alphanumerical designator. NOT 'AMIGATWO, NOT AMIGATHREE or any other cludged combination that is required by a very limited & self explanatory legal settlement. |
Best of luck to you. But at the end of the day your Amiga is an x86 PC maybe running AROS right? There is nothing wrong with that of course. And I know you have an obvious enthusiasm for the form factor you are promoting (PCs in a keyboard). I actually wish everyone would unite behind AROS. And I'm all for folks making nostalgia purchases that also address modern wants. I've certainly done the same. Hell its why the 2005 Mustang was so popular for instance. But why the backhanded swipe at the AmigaOne brand? Most folks coming to this site come here because of interest in AOS 4.x. I don't particularly see this as a way to endear yourself to the average user here.
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With the exception of a very small group, I haven't seen any evidence of "heart" in this forum. Just a large, decaying mass of frozen stone |
And yet your CTO is on here often trying to drum up enthusiasm and business. And this poll is trying to see how to accommodate discussion of your product. If you don't like the site and/or its inhabitants why are you and your representatives here?
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WOW!!!! that is great, what a goal! backwards compatible to a antique OS. How about something FULLY functional that is compatible with today's requirements? |
Does this mean you will be funding AROS to make it such? Or are you talking about your computer-in-a-keyboard products?
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Yup, you sure got us there! We are terrible at that...only 1.8 MILLION articles about our company on Google search |
Yep I read some of them. Like doubts that engadget brought up. And then seeing your website and disclaimer it had at one time. Paris Hilton has plenty of articles too. The amount does not mean you've done good PR per se.Last edited by fairlanefastback on 20-Oct-2010 at 06:14 AM. Last edited by fairlanefastback on 20-Oct-2010 at 06:01 AM. Last edited by fairlanefastback on 20-Oct-2010 at 06:00 AM.
_________________ Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0 Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS) EFIKA owner Amiga 1200 |
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Rob
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Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net Posted on 20-Oct-2010 8:33:47
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Joined: 20-Mar-2003 Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales | | |
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| @Manu
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IMHO that's not possible. You can't demand that anyone should mass procudce a custom board only to make it cheap. You an I know that would end up in a lot of unsold boards in stock which will in 12 months time be considered even more low-end than on release date. You can't trick the market. |
I wasn't making any demands and I certainly wouldn't expect C=USA to deviate from their plan to sell branded Windows PC's.
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The ONLY way to do it is to pick a board already produced where price and performance is fair then put OS4 on that board sell it inside one of CUSA's upcoming cases. And if such a board doesn't exist then you're ideas sadly aren't realistic. |
I was just answering one unrealistic idea with another, that's allLast edited by Rob on 20-Oct-2010 at 08:56 AM.
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Manu
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Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net Posted on 20-Oct-2010 8:44:05
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Joined: 4-Feb-2004 Posts: 1561
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| @Rob
Yes I guess it's not realistic to think OS4 ever will be ported to x86. It's getting real late for that now. But you could still use cases from Commodore. _________________ AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current, hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie |
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ruben
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Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net Posted on 20-Oct-2010 9:30:57
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Regular Member |
Joined: 8-Mar-2003 Posts: 364
From: Portugal | | |
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| @fairlanefastback
I think you picked a wrong example. If there's a personification of the phrase "no such thing as bad publicity", Paris Hilton would be it.
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Rob
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Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net Posted on 20-Oct-2010 9:33:29
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Elite Member |
Joined: 20-Mar-2003 Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales | | |
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| @Manu
I think Olaf Barthel said that you would have to more or less start from scratch again, and I guess he'd be best qualified to make such an assessment. |
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ChrisH
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Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net Posted on 20-Oct-2010 12:48:18
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Elite Member |
Joined: 30-Jan-2005 Posts: 6679
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Manu Quote:
And look how AROS now has catched up to OS4 and MorphOS |
AROS has made some nice progress in certain areas, but that claim is a bit excessive. Wander is still horribly basic, for example. No real drag'n'drop (AppWindow) support that I can see, for example. I would be wary of making AROS out to be more advanced than it is, or you may end-up with a lot of disappointed people who never give AROS another look. (This is something that OS4 & MOS also have to be careful of.)Last edited by ChrisH on 20-Oct-2010 at 12:53 PM.
_________________ Author of the PortablE programming language. It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue... |
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ChrisH
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Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net Posted on 20-Oct-2010 12:51:33
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Elite Member |
Joined: 30-Jan-2005 Posts: 6679
From: Unknown | | |
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| @digitex Quote:
Our AMIGA products will be badged "AMIGA" followed by a space and an alphanumerical designator. NOT 'AMIGATWO, NOT AMIGATHREE or any other cludged combination that is required by a very limited & self explanatory legal settlement. |
Here's a clue, Hyperion has the rights to "Amiga One" WITH A SPACE, rendering most of your argument moot. So yes, they can call something an Amiga One if they want, but they seem to prefer AmigaOne (no space) as that's how it's been used in the past.
_________________ Author of the PortablE programming language. It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue... |
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Manu
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Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net Posted on 20-Oct-2010 13:15:35
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Super Member |
Joined: 4-Feb-2004 Posts: 1561
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| @ChrisH
AROS is not advanced, it just became very useful. We are heading for advanced. I see that as a catch up but I don't say it's on a par with the others on each level, but I can say it's more advanced in certain areas. Last edited by Manu on 20-Oct-2010 at 01:26 PM.
_________________ AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current, hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie |
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persia
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Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net Posted on 20-Oct-2010 14:06:40
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Super Member |
Joined: 14-Jul-2009 Posts: 1059
From: Unknown | | |
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| @digitex But Barry why must you even fight in this arena? What's the point, most of us won't ever be your customers, you aren't going to win us over, so why bother? You are selling novelty items, computers in a keyboard which you mis-label as "all in ones." They are meant to grab peoples attention because they look different. They look vaguely like something that people remember from the past. So if they are cheap enough people will buy them as a novelty.
But we aren't novelty buyers, we're retro enthusiasts, we aren't looking for a netbook motherboard in retro style case, we're looking for an old machine in whatever case. To us it's the machine that matters. ####ing us off accomplishes nothing unless you are someone who enjoys ####ing people off.
I'm not saying that there isn't a novelty market, people buy all sorts of faux retro stuff all the time. The shops are full of it. There is a place for kitsch, but unfortunately it's not here. AW.net is a place that takes old stuff seriously. You wouldn't go to a group of antique collectors with plastic replicas, you don't come to us with novelty netbook motherboards in a retro case. Why is that so hard to understand? You don't need us and we don't need you. Both of us can be quite happy pretending the other doesn't exist....
Last edited by persia on 20-Oct-2010 at 02:07 PM.
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