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      /  AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
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Metalheart 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 17-Jan-2011 14:04:56
#241 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2968
From: Somewhere in the Dutch mountains....

@kas1e

Amazing ! I hope you will succeed.

Keep up the good work.

Martin

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pavlor 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 17-Jan-2011 14:05:17
#242 ]
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Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9389
From: Unknown

@kas1e

Keep up good work!

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Metalheart 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 17-Jan-2011 14:35:53
#243 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2968
From: Somewhere in the Dutch mountains....

Just wondering....

What do you developers do when a piece of code crashes your Amiga ?
Reset it ?
What if an error cant be found easily, and it keeps crashing. Resetting must be a pain in the ass.
Or do you have a better way to deal with this ?

Martin

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When its time to meet the maker
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kas1e 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 17-Jan-2011 14:40:00
#244 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3535
From: Russia

@Metalheart

Reboot of course. 100% reboot. And not only because of fixing of crash, but because if crash happens, your system already "infected" by crappy code , and system already unstable (even if visually its "ok"). So, if not make a reboot, and continue to work, then all the errors which you will have later, can be not because of new code whih you do after crash, but because of first one, which will mess your head.

Of course its still good to have GR, becasue it show you some kind of alarm like "hey, reboot as fast as you can", so you can finish all the stuff, save the code, remember all what you do, reboot , and again :)

Also i for example not have anything in wbstartups, or in system startup scripts (only few little tools), becasue of it reboot its about 5-10 seconds usually.

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samo79 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 17-Jan-2011 14:50:56
#245 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 13-Feb-2003
Posts: 3445
From: Italy, Perugia

@kas1e

So another step solved, very good !

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Deniil715 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 17-Jan-2011 19:49:07
#246 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4226
From: Sweden

@Metalheart

Quote:
What do you developers do when a piece of code crashes your Amiga ?
Reset it ?
What if an error cant be found easily, and it keeps crashing. Resetting must be a pain in the ass.
Or do you have a better way to deal with this ?


I never reset unless I have to, which usually means it locked up or is just completely screwed in some way. Normally, if it crashes the GrimReaper shows up and usually gives valuable information for debugging.
So, try to fix the bug and run again. Still crashing, try another fix. Try again. Crash again. Another bug. Fix, Try again.

I never reboot unless the system locks up or is completely ####ed, like swapping low on memory and can't run normally or something.

I think ppl are two scared of corruption in the system after a crash. I have crashes all the time because of programming but it rarely affects the system so I keep running until something locks up. Even if there is some effect you can still usually test your bug until you find it, then perhaps reboot after all the tests before you start on something new.

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Tomas 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 18-Jan-2011 15:01:24
#247 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Jul-2003
Posts: 4286
From: Unknown

@Deniil715
I think the reason is that it might cause the debug to be unreliable if you dont reboot.
Doubt it would be fun to try to fix a bug that was caused by a previous crash. At least that is how i understand it.

Rebooting OS4.1 takes less than 10 seconds anyways..

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Metalheart 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 18-Jan-2011 15:17:41
#248 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2968
From: Somewhere in the Dutch mountains....

@Deniil715

Ok, so Grimreaper realy made life better for you programmers.
Nice to hear.

I only do stuff using Hollywood or simple scripts, so crashes are not very likely.

Thanks,

Martin

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When its time to meet the maker
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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 18-Jan-2011 15:47:53
#249 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12343
From: Norway

@Metalheart

Only to the point where you know where to look, of cause you can stop the application from running, if it does something bad, I don’t reboot unless I most.
The application I’m working on now don’t crash in a normal way it just slows down my Amiga to point where GCC becomes useable.

I also have some minor problems whit my KWM that’s annoying, almost every time I boot my Amiga it auto reboots when it does not detect the keyboard, the only way I found to work around this is by pressing Caps Lock while booting. (Anyway the new KWM is better than the old one)

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Deniil715 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 18-Jan-2011 15:53:06
#250 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4226
From: Sweden

@Tomas

Since I never reboot until I have to, I can tell you and everyone else that it is very very rare that a previous crash cause the next test to crash or misbehave because of it. And I have worked like this for 15 years from OS3.0 up to OS4.1. It is just not justifiable to reboot after every single GrimReaper that pops up. Think about it, if you damage DOS or intuition or something so badly that *they* cause your program to crash the next time, then it is unlikely that your text editor or compiler would run anyway but also crash or hang. And if this is not happening it means there is no damage and there is no point in rebooting.

Remember, the GrimReaper is there to prevent damage to other areas. Only if you press Continue or Ignore DSI you *may* be into deep water depending on the type of fault. 99% of the times the app only damage itself before it is caught by the Reaper.

If the computer reboots in 1 second or 1 minute is fairly irrelevant since it will take you at least a minute more after it booted to start/open the development environment, open all files, find where you were and get into you code again. Completely untolerable interruption in the work for me.

@Metalheart

Yes the GrimReaper often tells you immediately in what function it crashes and what address that caused the crash. If the address is less than 100 or something it pretty much always means you forgot to allocate memory or initalize something properly, or you mistakenly access a NULL pointer because of missing if-statement or something.

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Deniil715 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 18-Jan-2011 15:56:48
#251 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4226
From: Sweden

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
The application I’m working on now don’t crash in a normal way it just slows down my Amiga to point where GCC becomes useable.


Then it is stuck in a never ending loop.
Use Scout and select Tasks. Then find your task and I bet you it says Ready which means it wants to run all the time. Click Update a few times to be sure. Only idle.task should be Ready at all times.

When this happens, just click Freeze to pause it. Scout is unable to remove a task since OS4.1 so don't try that.

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kas1e 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 18-Jan-2011 22:19:00
#252 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3535
From: Russia

@all
mui-owb progress:

-- with help of Deniil we fix timer stuff (was not so problematic, but still work are too). He also help to rewrite some hooks in vapor.h (what was pretty important should to say), and with who we discuss when he not busy at jobb some stuff :)

-- with everyday help from Fab i understand whole OWB more , write my first mui-test examples with subclasses and so on.

-- and the more enjoyably moment, its that we have very initial window, and there is:

there_is_the_initial_screenshot

Yeah, show nothing, say nothing, but its mean that whole stuff works, main loop works, mui-code, macroses, some hooks, some mos-specific rewriting are works as well. Its empty window in general mean that now we start to deal with bugs and problems which are more interesting and hi-level (mui4 deps, etc).

After we will get rid off from mui4 deps, and everything will works (i.e. windowses spawns, all works), but just without scrollbars, and all the other mui4 deps ,then the last , and maybe much more interesting works will starts (add missing mui4 deps).

But all of you should be sure, that all unpossible to do without Fab's help. If he will say tomorrow "i tired , let's stop", i am almost sure we will not reach final end then. So all "thanks" should going to Fabien.

I even have some kind of "relief" for now, because when we run first working binary, which show that empty window, which resizes, works, and main mui menu works (i.e. all those options, windowses menus are navigatable and can be seen). I even can put marks for example on settings . But its plain intutiion/mui stuff, so nothing surprising, but still.

Still hell of work to be done, but its something. I will keep you all informed, and when something interesting can be shown i will make screen shots or vids (asking for alpha-bins its also pretty early).

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Metalheart 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 18-Jan-2011 22:44:02
#253 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2968
From: Somewhere in the Dutch mountains....

@kas1e

Very OT.... but.... What did you do to change DOPUS's slider knobs ? They look cool. What else did you change ?

Thanks,

also great work your doing... realy !

Martin

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When its time to meet the maker
Theres a time to live but isnt it strange
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kas1e 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 18-Jan-2011 22:46:04
#254 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3535
From: Russia

@Metalheart
Its silver-theme (coming with aos4.1u2 only if i remember right). It change sliders, whole looks of windowses, and make them more interesting in compare with default looks (imho of course).

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Tomas 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 18-Jan-2011 22:49:23
#255 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Jul-2003
Posts: 4286
From: Unknown

@kas1e
Looks very promising. Thanks again for the update.
And of course thanks to Fab as well.

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Troels 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 18-Jan-2011 22:50:09
#256 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2004
From: Unknown

@kas1e
Good work, very pretty window

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samo79 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 19-Jan-2011 0:51:21
#257 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 13-Feb-2003
Posts: 3445
From: Italy, Perugia



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Sam440ep Flex 800 Mhz 1 GB Ram + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6
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realize 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 19-Jan-2011 4:36:16
#258 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2003
Posts: 1797
From: nyc

@kas1e

Excellent! Great progress. Very promising.. Yes FAB IS A MEGA HERO for the Amiga world! Now you too!

Still no word from Joerg? What a jerk...

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tonyw 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 19-Jan-2011 4:59:58
#259 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3229
From: Sydney (of course)

@realize

I think Joerg said that he wasn't interested in helping with a MUI port. Whatever his reasons, it's his decision, you are in no position to criticise him or call him names.

I have reported you for a "Personal Attack".

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Amigo1 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 19-Jan-2011 6:24:52
#260 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Jun-2004
Posts: 1582
From: the Clouds

@realize

Quote:

realize wrote:
[...] What a jerk...



That is most inappropriate.

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