Nice to see such progress. Arosm68k in combination with Natami SuperAGA will be true up to date classic amiga.

As one of our beloved Amiga extension hardware builders once said, the moment Commodore went PPC was bust...

(despite my nick name)

I hope lots of us will buy and use it and help evolve it further. With this on images we can have: Native soft without emulation and enough speed for daily tasks.

Also, open source OS which teams of enthusiast can upgrade at will.

For me that is promising for small community like ours because hoping that super-expensive PPC machines will become mainstream is ridiculous i think.

And one more thing, optimizing AROS for 68k machines could make it super fast because at this time it struggles to run on as much hardware it can and it is so hard to follow with small development coders base.

@amigappc

Quote:

the moment Commodore went PPC was bust

Commodore went PPC? I thought they were going PA-Risc in Hombre...

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All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@amigappc

I support AROS 68k since its really for all UAE users and a solution for Natami without legal mumbo jumbo. Software side of Natami will be almost done with it, just drivers and some examoles. Hope to see Natami 2011!

PPC boards will not conquer the world for sure, but its better to have them, then not to have them. Same is with NAtami: I respect even those who think OS 3.1 is last AmigaOS (even as OS 3.5/OS 3 .9 and OS 4.x user I see no real reason for it).

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Future Acube and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionals. Learn it harder way!

@billt

Expansion cards Phase 5. ESCOM wanted to go PPC with PPC support in OS 3.5 and beyond and with new machine, as Phase 5. But I believe this was more natural progression then e.g. What AAA/Hombre would be with Amiga emulation. At last, it provided the next gen OS free of custom chipset.

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@amigappc

Who's writing the C compiler that take advantage of the 68050/70?
It'll need to have a very good optimizer to produce fast code.

Kamel

@kamelito

The VBCC guys have expressed interest in adding N050/N070 support. LLVM will probably be supported later on too. Using the LLVM-GCC layer will probably be better than trying to fix GCC:s ####ty 68k code generation.

@amigappc

The where bust long before that, Amiga1200 whit planar graphics in 1992 the year doom hit the selves in 1993 whit chunky graphics (VGA) 640x480, pc where running circles around Amiga's (3D graphics), in 1994 Commodore died, and then 15/16bit graphics came to pc's, A4000 was released in 1993 they should have taken notes after all Commodore where in the x86 pc market as well.

I guess the marketing department did not care what they sold, leader did not know what they had, and hardware people where too in love whit planar graphics to think new, and when ship started sinking they did not have any money to change the direction of the ship before they hit the iceberg.

1995 the year Sony PS1 hit the selves whit simple 3d accelerated graphics, new pc's where running at 90Mhz, Apple had changed to PowerPC and MacOS7 was running emulated on top of it.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

The following years after Commodore died, ESCOM owned it for while, Viscorp owned it for while, they did not quite know what do, there were all sorts of speculations in the magazines about the NG Amiga, was going to have alfa, was it going to be PowerPC.

It was Phase5 that made the decision by introducing PowerPC as upgrade card for old Mac's and Amiga computers 603 and 604 at 166 to 233mhz in 1997, at the time apple where rally happy about there PowerPC choice some thing that where about to change.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Cf3m_YUzCM

Phase 5 where planing there own computer inspired by Amiga the A/Box, this ended up as the Pegasus under different company running MorphOS.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

H&P was the 2en company that made the decision for PowerPC,

Phase 5 was company that introduced Amiga for PowerPC, but there software PowerUP sucked, so H&P made the alternative package called WarpOS,
Hyperion introduces AmigaOS to 3D by releasing Warp3D,

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@NutsAboutAmiga
Quote:

Hyperion introduces AmigaOS to 3D by releasing Warp3D,

wrong:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warp3D

hyperion has just taken over (i dont know on what base).

@wawa

Warp3D Developer(s) Sam Jordan, Hans-Joerg Frieden, Thomas Frieden

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

the year doom hit the selves in 1993 whit chunky graphics (VGA) 640x480

Doom ran using 320x200 screenmodes, not 640x480. And most PCs didn't ran it much better than accelerated Amigas do. E.g. 486/33 with ISA were usually slower than 030/50+AGA. VESA/PCI gfx cards were only in newer expensive machines. Id could have released it for accelerated Amigas without problems. People would have upgraded their machines. As game publishers kept releasing games that didn't take advantage of extra hardware gamers didn't upgrade

Quote:

hardware people where too in love whit planar graphics to think new

Do you know what project "Hombre" was? BTW, it was management people the ones that killed chances of survival. Hardware guys wanted to use DSPs as standard, that feature was much better than any chunky mode could have offered. I don't know why you think they didn't like chunky modes. AGA was an extension of ECS and had to keep compatibility in mind.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

Phase 5 was company that introduced Amiga for PowerPC, but there software PowerUP sucked, so H&P made the alternative package called WarpOS,

really? It looks to me as an effort from H&P to gain some control over a future AmigaOS. Getting control of AmigaOS was in H&P (and friends) roadmap, the second move was done by Ben Hermans advising Amiga to refuse MorphOS as AmigaOS4 and "sell them" the idea of Hyperion creating a new much better OS using WarpOS as a base. It took many many more years than they promised and development even stopped completely (but in the meanwhile they screamed "on schedule and rocking", "keep the momentum going", "BBRV is Evil" and "MorphOS uses stolen code".

most arguments against PowerUp came from Steffen Hausser claiming ELF was a "monster". When OS4 team noticed it was WarpOS what sucked they choosed ELF like PowerUp programmers. They even dropped WarpOS support completely and just added it at a later stage. Now ELF is not so Evil for him.

Another funny argument against PowerUp was that it wouldn't allow using other hardware or future OS. MorphOS supported PowerUp since first version and still does.

Quote:

Hyperion introduces AmigaOS to 3D by releasing Warp3D,

Rubbish. It was phase5 the ones that introduced 3D to Amiga in the form of Rave3D. And Rave3D was the only solution having serious software like Tornado3D with real time high quality previews. Never saw a commercial 3D modelling solution using Warp3D, just some amateurish efforts. Games OTOH were released by Hyperion using H&P Warp3D (that was mainly developed by Sam Jordan at the beginning when Hyperion didn't exist and Friedens were making experiments with Descent ports)

BTW, serious software like Tornado3D, Wildfire, ImageFX and others used PowerUp.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

Phase 5 was company that introduced Amiga for PowerPC, but there software PowerUP sucked, so H&P made the alternative package called WarpOS,

It did? I always thought it was other way around. Anyway, PowerUp and WarpUp was intended only as an intermediate solution when Amiga (Technologies) failed to deliver new PPC native AmigaOS in 96/97.

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Hmm, i didnt want to start this. Just wanted to say that combination Aros + Natami will rock.

@Crumb

Quote:

Hyperion didn't exist and Friedens were making experiments with Descent ports

I don´t think it is wise to try to rewrite this part of Amiga history. At that time (1999/2000) Frieden brothers contributed to the Warp3D more than any other members of our community that are still active today.

Quote:

advising Amiga to refuse MorphOS as AmigaOS4

It was MorphOS Team who refused conditions of Amiga.Inc...
...and so created its major competition - AmigaOS 4. How ironic.


More than 10 years old events aren´t probably the best argument for current discussions.



To the topic: What (if any) 3D drivers want to use AROS developers in this port to 68k?
Sure, there are many other areas that must be adressed with much higher priority (eg. stability, compatibility and speed). However improvement of 3D drivers for "classic" Amiga computers would be nice.

@pavlor

as terminills writes he sent jason his spare mediator board. see post 46. i think we can expect aros hidd solutions working on amiga pci sytems via open pci, as long as system independent expansions are used this would be practically for free. i dont know what to do about zorro or cyberstorm expansions, maybe some dedicated uses/devs will want to pick up this subject. matthey indicated that warp3d drivers provided with mediator boards might also run under aros68k at some point. it would be up to users if they want to use this software or not.

Last edited by wawa on 27-Jan-2011 at 08:07 PM.

@pavlor

Quote:

I don´t think it is wise to try to rewrite this part of Amiga history.

Exactly, so let's refresh your memory: Hyperion didn't exist when Warp3D was released. And Warp3D came later than Rave3D.

Friedens programmed directly Virge for Descent before Warp3D was created by Sam Jordan.

Quote:

It was MorphOS Team who refused conditions of Amiga.Inc...

Since it seems you are unaware of it Amiga Inc's contract was redacted by Ben Hermans.

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@Crumb

Quote:

Hyperion didn't exist when Warp3D was released

I wrote about Friedens, not Hyperion...
I hope we both agree that Friedens existed at that time.

Quote:

Since it seems you are unaware of it Amiga Inc's contract was redacted by Ben Hermans.

It seems you are unaware that it was MorphOS Team who turned down offer of Amiga.Inc. (To quote one of members of the MorphOS Team: the conditions were unacceptable.)


I think Hyperion must be grateful to the MorphOS Team for such noble deeds. Current OS4 wouldn´t be possible without them.

(only joking of course)

Last edited by pavlor on 27-Jan-2011 at 10:25 PM.

@pavlor

Quote:

@NutsAboutAmiga Quote: Hyperion introduces AmigaOS to 3D by releasing Warp3D, wrong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warp3D hyperion has just taken over (i dont know on what base).

all this ot discussion was ignited by above statements. so lets not twist it around and agree that *hyperion* was not the one to introduce warp3d. i even remember that in the nineties ive heard about warp3d, but ve never heard of any friedens at that time.