@eliyahu

Argh lets stay on topic. If you want you can email me if you want to talk. :)

@klx300r

Afraid of that thing considered "trolling" around here, but called "freedom of speech"? welcome to democracy! or go creating your own elitist forum

Last edited by vision on 24-Jan-2011 at 07:29 PM.

@vision

nope only thing I'm afraid of is the Mrs

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@fatman2021

Do we know who's behind it? The description sounds vaguely like the now defunct chicken killer, Anubis....

Thank you for posting this.

"A native x86 Amiga OS would spell the end of all serious commercial development for Amiga OS."

Is there in 2011, with a ppc amiga a "serious commercial development for amiga os"?


"because the Amiga market is only of marginal economic importance to us."

Let me ask: what's your other "main" work? And if amiga is a "marginal economic importance" why do you have gone in legal issues with amiga inc.? Why didn't you let it to some stronger sw house? Why do you tie to you this marginal etc etc etc? If it's for the sake of love to amiga why don't you return it to amiga community?

"We moreover do not wish to be drawn into a debate about the respective merits of the PPC versus x86 architectures. Both CPU families deliver the goods in terms of performance and have their respective strengths and weaknesses."

Right. Totally right.

"Unparalleled multimedia performance (Altivec), low power consumption and a clear 64 bit upgrade path for the PPC family and rapid development, raw horse-power and low price-point for the x86 family."

Ten years later the first part is totally wrong. The second is totally true. A totally defeat.

"We also do not want to belittle the technical feats accomplished by VMC: their Amithlon product is technically impressive and very fast. It also holds the danger of ending all serious commercial development for Amiga."

Amithlon endangering something? Totally out of the world. We didn't and don't need ideology!! We need technology!


"Because as soon as a x86 enters the picture, along tags Windows. In essence, the temptation for x86 users to have Windows installed in parallel to a native Amiga OS x86 will be irresistible and we will be seeing «dual boot» systems as we saw on Beos and now Linux x86.

Both Beos and Linux serve as a stern warning about what happens if you try to compete with Windows on the same hardware: you become relegated to a Windows add-on product without any native software to speak of."

Totally false: look at linux, look at osx with a market share growing in spite of windows. The only "serious" os that lacks apps is amigaos with its ppc glue.


"Beos, despite being a very impressive OS, failed to get any marketshare, never had any serious applications and Hyperion has more game licenses than there were ever games for Beos."

The same 3 licenses you had 15 years ago?

"Take a look at the Linux situation which we experienced first hand. How many native apps and games does Linux have?"

TOO MUCH.

"Despite the very large installed base, Linux only has one serious game developer (Loki) and the number of serious (non-server related) native apps can be counted on one hand."

Future prediction is not your art...

"The reason is simple: why would a software company invest money in porting its software to another x86 OS when it knows people can also boot into Windows or run an «emulator» like Wine or VMWare which allows you to run Windows software under Linux x86 at near native speeds? The costs could never be recuperated through sales."

Ask again to apple... If you have a REAL good product there will be people that will even make HACKINTOSH to have it!!!


"The result is clear: nobody is buying any product for Linux. A major, brand-new game-title can at best expect to sell a few thousand copies on Linux and several tens of thousands on Mac. Plus on Linux x86 you need to keep your pricing in line with the Windows version (without having the benefits of the economies of scale that the Windows market offers) otherwise you will provide even more incentive for people to buy Windows products."

False, again false. In EU many countries administrations have adopted Open Source solutions with software and tech experts working in this. And everyday, when i worked in the it, i had to fight with linux sw houses that made lawyers, public notaries specific software for this professionals.

"Linux x86 is currently relegated to the status of a Windows add-on with a lot of software (like the Corel products and media-players) just working on Linux x86 because it uses Windows code in some way or another."

...I use an acer notebook totally on linux. I code, i play, i surf, i write and so on. As a geek I bought a windows 7 i5 to make space shuttles but actually it only plays youtube videos... Yes!! And it double boots with aros!!!

"Linux has carved out a very nice niche in the server and embedded systems markets but the desktop market is a joke with all major Linux companies closing down or shedding jobs because nobody was making any money with desktop Linux."

You've got no linux! You've got AMIGAOS! If you believe it's a good project sell it! Otherwise you're telling me you don't believe in it and the people who buys it is not so clever...

"So when somebody asks you: who has the bigger market-share on the desktop, Red Hat Linux or Apple Mac, the answer is: who cares? The real question is: who is making (more) money on the desktop and what desk-top platform has a wider range of native applications and games."

Osx. Apple Mac. And makes even bigger money!!!LOL

"Mac OS X could be brought to x86 relatively easily. The core of Mac OS X already runs on x86 but there isn’t a hair on Steve Jobs’ head that thinks about giving up his nicely insulated niche-market in favor of head to head competition with Windows on the same hardware. Apple wants its developers to stay in business so they can keep Apple’s users happy by providing them with software not available on other platforms."

I really don't even care to answer to this because i should start to cry...


"The resources that large commercial developers on Windows can command and the price-point they can reach by the sheer number of sales cannot be matched by developers on a niche-platform who can only survive in their niche-market if that platform is insulated from the Windows market."

Hey man but you really think msoft is the devil??? Well. Let's have this niche market. But a niche market is not a stupid ones market. I would like to buy your pcc machine and your ppc os but show me i can do the same things i can do with that "linux" you name or that windows you hate. If i write an hello world app i don't show it to others if my version doesn't print to screen the ! letter and pretend because it's a niche hello world app.

"People advocating a native x86 Amiga OS should look beyond the cheap hardware and understand they are condemning the Amiga desktop platform to become an emulation platform for old software with no new native software available."

You, and not me, have condemned amiga to be an emulation platform because we each know that there's more cloanto amiga forever users than os4 ones on this earth.Amiga's gone dead and it's not my fault.

"Nobody but a handful of fanatics will pay more money to run a slower (partially emulated) version of the same or similar software on Windows when they can instead buy a cheaper, faster, native Windows-version which can run on the same hardware."

Yes. we have native software on slower hardware.


"What good is cheap hardware when you have no software to run on your native x86 OS and you are forced to boot into Windows all the time? How long would it take before the development of such an OS would fall by the wayside because of low sales, which is exactly what happened to Beos?"

What good is slow and absurdly prized hardware when you have no software to run on your native ppc OS?

"Ben Hermans Managing partner Hyperion Entertainment"

Raffaele Perillo, an Italian crying Amiga user.

Last edited by rebraist on 24-Jan-2011 at 10:06 PM.
Last edited by rebraist on 24-Jan-2011 at 10:03 PM.

@rebraist

""by rebraist on 24-Jan-2011 21:59:44 Thank you for posting this.""

You do realize that took place in 2001. It was A-incs product at that time. It was not supposed
to be Hyperions main focus at that time.

Gee, what ever happened to the NextOS? And the guy whose brainstorm it was? Sheesh,, can't
nobody say or do anything ever that doesn't get shoved back down their throat 10 years later?

Wait,,,,wait,,,,,,alas no,,,, no NextOS under the teapot.

@jahc

I think you may feel better staying outside of this kind of thread, lately Amigaworld seems fantastic to lose users and developers, even when Amiga situation isn't that bad :-/

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@vox

You should not worry about the right to the name Workbench.

Windows 7 is entirely logical. Windows Vista = 6, Windows XP = 5, Windows NT = 4 and 3.1, etc.

There was a sense that the Commodore first wanted to collaborate with Hyperion and then with Aros. But as we know, shut the door for various reasons. I think it was good that they closed the door to the one chosen is a better option.

It's nice that you are concerned for the name Wprkbench5. But do not worry too much for the name is not finally decided yet. However, I believe that it will Workbench 5th 5 is a corollary of 1-2-3-4-5 and so on. Unfortunately, there were never any 4 for Commodore what I know. It is understandable that the new Commodore takes No. 5. Nr4 can confuse because there is an Other OS Amiga with the name that has the No.

Your proposed name must not contain Workbench, then it's not interesting.

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@linnar

... has to be AmigaOS 5 to make Workbench 5, and AmigaOS is currently at 4.1.2

Beside that, you can call it Cool Wet Crazy 2011

Windows naming is not that logical, since there are two genetations of Windows,
one up to Millenium and other with Windows NT and neither is seventh incarnation.

Exponation is verrry ... subjective

The very first release of Windows was Windows 1.0, the second was Windows 2.0, the third Windows 3.0. Here's where things get a little more complicated. Following Windows 3.0 was Windows NT which was code versioned as Windows 3.1. Then came Windows 95, which was code versioned as Windows 4.0. Then, Windows 98, 98 SE and Windows Millennium each shipped as 4.0.1998, 4.10.2222, and 4.90.3000, respectively. So we're counting all 9x versions as being 4.0. Windows 2000 code was 5.0 and then we shipped Windows XP as 5.1, even though it was a major release we didn't want to change code version numbers to maximize application compatibility. That brings us to Windows Vista, which is 6.0. So we see Windows 7 as our next logical significant release and 7th in the family of Windows releases...There's been some fodder about whether using 6.1 in the code is an indicator of the relevance of Windows 7. It is not. Windows 7 is a significant and evolutionary advancement of the client operating system. It is in every way a major effort in design, engineering and innovation. The only thing to read into the code versioning is that we are absolutely committed to making sure application compatibility is optimized for our customers.[12]

Yours also simply cant be fifth.

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@vox

Microsoft is telling us they have sold 30 version of 7 Operating systems
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_versions
and CUSA tells us customized Linux is AmigaOS 5?

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@vox

No C=USA have the rights to Workbench, not AmigaOS, they're different things, cheese and chalk. Hyperion would have to go to court to have a Trademark overturned, no easy task, especially when C=USA can outspend then by a considerable margin with no guarantee that they would win.

As for starting with 5, does anyone bloody care what number you start with? Apple should be on MacOS 17, but they'd be stupid to give up the X. There's no law that says you have to start from one. No law that says when or how you increment.

Here's the thing, we live in a ver tiny society where all this matters, a few thousand people out of billions.

99%+ of people couldn't tell you what AmigaOS was, what made it unique or what software ran on it. It's a name from history.It has just a little cachet. So does the Commodore name. So they create a keyboard computer novelty item, they create an OS novelty item and maybe, just maybe it snags some customers. The customers don't care about everything we've been fighting over, it's irrelevant. They might try Workbench 5 but more than likely they'll buy it with MS Windows. They'll load MS Office and they'll be happy.

C=USA will succeed or fail and we will have nothing to say about it. If the keyoard computers generate enough revenue they can get to compete in the home video market, it's not yet mature, there are TV's with built in browsers, boxees, Apple TVs all just emerging, plaed right C=USA has a chance, just a chance of succeeding.

Do I think they'll make it? No, but who knows, a jobless Apple may not be able to swat them in time, Microsoft may miss yet another market.

@vox

No C=USA have the rights to Workbench, not AmigaOS, they're different things, cheese and chalk. Hyperion would have to go to court to have a Trademark overturned, no easy task, especially when C=USA can outspend then by a considerable margin with no guarantee that they would win.

As for starting with 5, does anyone bloody care what number you start with? Apple should be on MacOS 17, but they'd be stupid to give up the X. There's no law that says you have to start from one. No law that says when or how you increment.

Here's the thing, we live in a ver tiny society where all this matters, a few thousand people out of billions.

99%+ of people couldn't tell you what AmigaOS was, what made it unique or what software ran on it. It's a name from history.It has just a little cachet. So does the Commodore name. So they create a keyboard computer novelty item, they create an OS novelty item and maybe, just maybe it snags some customers. The customers don't care about everything we've been fighting over, it's irrelevant. They might try Workbench 5 but more than likely they'll buy it with MS Windows. They'll load MS Office and they'll be happy.

C=USA will succeed or fail and we will have nothing to say about it. If the keyoard computers generate enough revenue they can get to compete in the home video market, it's not yet mature, there are TV's with built in browsers, boxees, Apple TVs all just emerging, plaed right C=USA has a chance, just a chance of succeeding.

Do I think they'll make it? No, but who knows, a jobless Apple may not be able to swat them in time, Microsoft may miss yet another market.

@vox

Windows has two main lines:
WindowsDOS and WindowsNT

WindowsDOS:
Windows 1 - 3.1 (For more dos) Version 1 - 2 - 2.x - 3 - 3.x
Windows 95 - ME (Minor dose) Version 4

WindowsNT:
WindowsNT 3.x - 4 (dos like)
Windows2000 - No. 7 Version 4.x - 5 - 6 -7

Windows2000 based really on WindowsNT 4.x

There are server versions that are based on the above and some other versions with the same version number as above.

If I do not have a version number just right, it's two lines with two different number series.

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@samo79

Quote:

samo79 wrote: @jahc I think you may feel better staying outside of this kind of thread, lately Amigaworld seems fantastic to lose users and developers, even when Amiga situation isn't that bad :-/

I was thinking the same. It's really becoming a sad place although we've never had so much going on in the last 10 years AFAIR.

Sam440 is there, Sam460 is coming, AmigaOne X1000 is coming..

And people arguing and dragging others through the mud, about things said 10 years ago! That's so easy to do, isn't it?!
Funnily enough those "I-knew-how-to-put-an-Egg-on-it's-tipps-guys-kinda-guys" are well doing being outside of the decision taking class. I wonder why, them being so much better than the others, they have not achieved enough in their business life to be able to come to the fore and guide their apparently loved Amiga to something better that it is now...

I hope B. Herman, T. Dickingson are going to endure this. As I hope MOS is too.. although I am one of those people who hoped AROS MOS and OS4 could somehow join forces. (at least MOS and OS4 since they're on the same platform).

peace

@rebraist

Why are you discussing something that was posted 10 years ago??? It's so easy to be the clever guy if you have the benefit of hindsight! Why don't you write an e-mail to Bill Gates, mocking him about the "640K should be enough for everybody" comment he made 30 years ago?

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@Trixie

Quote:

Trixie wrote: @rebraist Why are you discussing something that was posted 10 years ago??? It's so easy to be the clever guy if you have the benefit of hindsight! Why don't you write an e-mail to Bill Gates, mocking him about the "640K should be enough for everybody" comment he made 30 years ago?

That is funny, or real multitasking can't be done in under 4MB of RAM

@ all
Personally i'd have loved to see Hyperion work with C= to make a better future platform with AMIGA OS at the helm. Linux is like a spiders web of bits. AMIGA OS still has the Linux abilities but all neatly organised with a easy GUI. If both companies teamed up, development would go so much further quicker. 1 hand helping the other.

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@jahc

Quote:

Naming their OS "Workbench" is misleading.

So is having "#1 Dad" mug. If they have license to "Amiga" name it's pretty safe to assume they can use "Workbench".

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@Trixie

Quote:

Bill Gates, mocking him about

a thing he never said.

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@opi

So you don't disagree with me? :)

@persia

When? Where? How?

No C=USA have the rights to Workbench,

Proper software version naming is now subjected to industrial psychology.
Real IT people know

Similar like with the Internet domain naming. You can take whatever name you want but there is way how and why.

This jump to Workbench 5 will make CUSA look more like enemy (not even frenemy)
and is a bit too high ego for customization.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_versioning

Why not CUSA customized Ubuntu v1.0?

By the way,official version number for Windows 7 is 6.1

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