@thread

Consider this a final warning to keep these discussions civil, no need for name calling or abusive behavior.

Regards,
Joachim Birging

AmigaWorld.Net staff

_________________
Common sense - So rare it's almost like a super power

Workbench 5, I understand the reasons for them going the linux root and I'm glad they are being more open and honestest with their goals on their forum for their new OS, I reserve judgement on how good/bad the custom OS is until I see it, the problem is base on C=USA to date many people are guess that its nothing that you can't set up your self by downloading a gui skin for linux (even I'm think that!) but maybe they will surprise us. I think we should be a bit kinder towards them after all this was the same plan Gateway had back in 1999 when they droped QNX for Linux for AmigaOE I belive it was called, then droped the whole thing.

The biggest problem I have is calling it version 5, to make seem like its a natural update of amigaOS line and that it superior or a successor to AmigaOS4, both are untrue.

Another problem I see is the independent Aros computer builders like imica and Ares One offers a much more Amiga inspired modern solution today, so why would I buy an Amiga 1000x when I could get a system that the developers behind it actually support the amiga community and feature loads of legacy apps and I know the money would go back into the community.

-------------BigBentheAussie
Quote:

An Amiga may mean this or that to you, but technically we are the only company with the right to call our new computers an Amiga, or even better, a Commodore Amiga.

As I understand it you only have licences to brand All in One keyboard with the Commodore name not the big computers, so will you actually be able to use the name together? As I thought Commodore Gaming have the rights to use the name on big PC. please correct me if I'm wrong.

Quote:

As for Workbench, it is a cool name from the Amiga's past, coined by Commodore in the beginning, and we have every right to use it for our OS name if we want to (despite what many may think)

Do you agree with Amiga Inc opinion that using the Workbench name would damage AmigaOS, as that is what the whole case is based on,( http://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?pno=91183272&pty=OPP&eno=1 ) if you read the reason Amiga Inc listed out in the court case for the reason Cloanto should not be allowed to use the name do you agree with them? And if you do and if AmigaInc wins based on these reasons then wont Hyperion be able to claim the same thing. Its all very messy!

Last edited by amigang on 23-Jan-2011 at 06:27 PM.
Last edited by amigang on 23-Jan-2011 at 06:22 PM.
Last edited by amigang on 23-Jan-2011 at 06:21 PM.

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AmigaNG, YouTube, LeaveReality Studio

@klx300r

Quote:

BUT why did you guys not support any existing community bounites or at least donate some money to any of the Amiga shows to date ???

Because we're not developing AROS. Read the first paragraph of my post again to see why.
We have our hands full with other things, and we're hardly in a position where we can be spending money like water. The marketing budget is a projected budget over a few years.

Quote:

What have those sheysters at AI done for our community??? now what has CUSA done so far for it??? see a pattern

AI has nothing to do with us, except we licensed the name off them.
With all due respect, has the general community on this forum done for us except complain and call us con artists? Sure, we made some miss-steps, and said some harsh things in retaliation to these comments, but only because we are very committed to this, and feel many of these comments are unwarranted.
We tried to do something to cater to the community from the beginning, but it was not to be.
We acknowledge that the classic OS community is not really our market, and I only post here because I've been a member for several years. The thread was about something we're doing, so I chimed in. Otherwise you'll catch us on our own forum.

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Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

@amigang

Quote:

The biggest problem I have is calling it version 5, to make seem like its a natural update of amigaOS line and that it superior or a successor to AmigaOS4, both are untrue.

i would agree here wholeheartedly. commodore USA can do whatever they like with the amiga brand, but if they are going to create (or contract for) a new linux distro, please don't call it workbench '5' -- workbench X, commodore OS, that sort of thing is fine. that little digit will insult a bunch of people, and, frankly, isn't warrented given that this is the first linux-based 'workbench' if you're going to call it that.

Quote:

Another problem I see is the independent Aros computer builders like imica and Ares One offers a much more Amiga inspired modern solution today, so why would I buy an Amiga 1000x when I could get a system that the developers behind it actually support the amiga community and feature loads of legacy apps and I know the money would go back into the community.

given what happened with steve i doubt many in the AROS community will prefer a CUSA machine over an imica or aresone. the CUSA guys are interested in people buying dell, HP, acer boxen, the mass market -- not our little corner of the world.

i enjoy using my SAM and OS4, whatever the label. i bought it because of the user experience, not the name. i understand the 'amiga' brand is an emotional issue here, and that's fair. but the CUSA guys own it now. they'll do with it what they please, and i imagine, if their kit is competitive, they'll sell a fair number of PCs.

-- eliyahu

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"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

@eliyahu

Quote:

-- workbench X, commodore OS, that sort of thing is fine.

Actually, if you read their forums, those names have been discussed as well.

#6

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This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@number6

Quote:

Quote: -- workbench X, commodore OS, that sort of thing is fine. Actually, if you read their forums, those names have been discussed as well.

yup. they seem to use them interchangably -- i would assume, therefore, that the name has not been finalized. nor the feature-set. would probably depend on who they contract to create the distro for them.

-- eliyahu

_________________
"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

@amigang

Quote:

The biggest problem I have is calling it version 5, to make seem like its a natural update of amigaOS line and that it superior or a successor to AmigaOS4, both are untrue.

It is arguably superior at least!
Would you rather we had called it Workbench 4 and confused everyone?
You might as well tell Hyperion to go with AmigaOS 2012 or Hyperion OS 1.2.
We'll be using the name that makes sense for us.
We might still go with Workbench X, but people feel it is too MacOSX like.
We'll see what we finally decide closer to launch.

Quote:

As I thought Commodore Gaming have the rights to use the name on big PC. please correct me if I'm wrong.

Don't worry about them. I can't go into much more detail than that.
We have an exclusive right to the computer keyboards, which means even the licensors can't do it. This does not preclude non-exclusive rights to desktops or whatever other things we would like to do. We require the licensor's final approval on all products and we have a great relationship with both parties.

Quote:

Do you agree with Amiga Inc opinion that using the Workbench name would damage AmigaOS, as that is what the whole case is based on

I wouldn't worry about the whole Workbench thing.
I really can't go into much more detail than that, other than to say, in my opinion, that Amiga Inc, are likely bringing up the AmigaOS argument in defense of their potential licensing revenue from it. Both Cloanto and Hyperion are likely as entwined with Amiga Inc., through licensing as we are, yet somehow we are vilified as though we are exclusively affiliated with the devil.

Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 23-Jan-2011 at 07:32 PM.

_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:

Quote:As I thought Commodore Gaming have the rights to use the name on big PC. please correct me if I'm wrong. Don't worry about them. I can't go into much more detail than that.

I don't think their role is a secret. It's quite public that they claimed to be the license holder at one point.

From Commodore.ca and numerous other places. From the admin in April, 2010:

Quote:

BRAND: The Commodore brand is apparently in no longer in negotiation. I have an email into Commodore Gaming (the current owner of the Brand) but I have not confirmed it myself.

Quote:

Both Cloanto and Hyperion are likely as entwined with Amiga Inc., through licensing as we are, yet somehow we are vilified as though we are exclusively affiliated with the devil.

That's the cost of being the new kid on the block. Don't pay it much heed.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 23-Jan-2011 at 07:51 PM.
Last edited by number6 on 23-Jan-2011 at 07:46 PM.

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This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote: @Opi, eXec, Linnar, Wraith2021 Its funny that none her knows what Workbench 5 is going to be like, yet there are some people arguing for it like its the 2en coming of Jesus. So what makes this an Amiga? And way do you think it brings Amiga to the masses, way do think any one outside the Amiga community cares? (I have not seen lots of new registered members on this site).

It is true that we do not know how Workbench is!
But we do like everybody else did when Hyperion was developed without that we have seen the results. We went on what was said and what we thought.

To reach any outside Amiga Commodore society must obviously work hard, show some attractive products and not too expensive in relation to performance. Can their computers also run emulate several other os is the one advantage.

I'm not saying it will be fine with Commodore, but it is one of the strongest attempts to let a wider audience access to what the Amiga stands for.

If I buy a Commedore Amiga computer, while I must change the PC, and Workbench are not up to scratch, I can run Windows and program. Probably will I be among the most beautiful pc produced, I think.

I'm not completely sold on the Commodore, but I give it a Change!

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:

We're not hiding the fact, but we're not calling it Linux any more than Google does Android. Linux, by any objective measurement, is technically and functionally superior in a host of ways to AmigaOS, like it or not.

So what it the scope of this operation ?

(oh yes, money, off course!)

Community are not interested in "what happened" in the past from you and Hyperion, if you can't provide any real AmigaOS or AmigaOS like system i don't see any single reason to buy anythings from CUSA.

And this is quite logic, this is the Amiga community, not Linux, Windows, Mac or whatelse.

Try to sell Linux on the Apple community, i'm sure they can shot you ))

Amiga mean its operative system and maybe its old hardware if you talk about classic Amigas.

Any jerk can be able to buy a PC everywhere and put them a skinnable Ubuntu and branded is as Amiga or Mr. Bean

Linux is not superior, is just a different operative system that you renamed as "Amiga" but it's not an Amiga in any way

_________________
BACK FOR THE FUTURE

http://www.betatesting.it/backforthefuture

Sam440ep Flex 800 Mhz 1 GB Ram + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6
AmigaOne XE G3 800 Mhz - 640 MB Ram - Radeon 9200 SE + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6

@samo79

Unfortunately, Linux is superior to anything to come from amiga land. That's why there's a whole bunch of new OSes based on it while AmigaOS hasn't moved much from where Commodore left it in 94'.
In fact, some hobby based OSes have a far more modern features list then any AmigaOID.

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@WolfToTheMoon

This isn't the point, Windows 7 is superior too but it's another OS, completely different, if we are here after all that time is because we like AmigaOS and clones, not a branded name but the software behind it

Ask yourself, why you are reading Amiga forums in 2011 ?

To use Linux ?

Well if you want Linux why you don't browse a Linux website instead ?

My deep impression is that CUSA are just a gang of speculators, sadly i can say like many Americans corporates, they infect us with their criminal financial crisis, derivates, speculations and so on, and the entire world pay again for them ...

_________________
BACK FOR THE FUTURE

http://www.betatesting.it/backforthefuture

Sam440ep Flex 800 Mhz 1 GB Ram + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6
AmigaOne XE G3 800 Mhz - 640 MB Ram - Radeon 9200 SE + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6

@samo79

Quote:

but it's another OS

So what? Windows NT was a new OS... Mac OS X is a new OS.

I don't get it... you want to run the same old OS 3.x till the end of days... Feel free to do it.

The whole point of this entire excercise is...

1)bring AMIGA brand on top notch hardware to compete on equal terms with other branded computers

2)Provide a modern OS that will enable users to engage the full potential of the said hardware...

The 1) and 2) are mutually non-exclusive... one doesn't make sense without the other. So, a new OS is mandatory for them. As is for me. I feel fine using OS 3.x on classic hardware, but common... it's 2011 already.

Last edited by WolfToTheMoon on 23-Jan-2011 at 08:28 PM.

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@WolfToTheMoon
Hmm AROS has Gallium, like Linux. AROS 64Bit has well "64Bit" and a bit memory protection. AROS has WIFI. I see no need to use Linux as base . I would do it only if i had no time to take the hard route to update AROS. But the hard way is the funny road.

Linux + AROS is easy:

Broadway X (i called it X before CUSA replaced 5 with X : D )

I have to say Linux is not my cup of tea...
I wan't a modern AROS with 64Bit, 68k apps running seamless, 16GB RAM and a APU powering it.

_________________
AROS Broadway - AEROS - Aminux - AmiCloud - indieGO! Appstore - AmiWallet - VAN lossless video codec - AMC Amiga media Center -KrypUnite - LibertyNet - MinX - amigaNX

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

So what? Windows NT was a new OS... Mac OS X is a new OS.

No at all

- Windows NT --> Windows 7 are 100% Windows

- MacOS X was rewritten this is true but it is the same MacOS of the past (but more powefull and feature rich off course), it have the same look and feel and it was mostly written by Apple developers

Quote:

I don't get it... you want to run the same old OS 3.x till the end of days... Feel free to do it.

You don't need to pay CUSA for this, UAE already exists everywhere

Quote:

1)bring AMIGA brand on top notch hardware to compete on equal terms with other branded computers

CUSA offer normal Linux PCs, again you don't need anythings from them and they are not Amiga computers

Quote:

2)Provide a modern OS that will enable users to engage the full potential of the said hardware...

They can put Windows as well, ther's no difference at all, surely i will never by a Windows PC in USA from them when i can buy such computers everywhere

_________________
BACK FOR THE FUTURE

http://www.betatesting.it/backforthefuture

Sam440ep Flex 800 Mhz 1 GB Ram + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6
AmigaOne XE G3 800 Mhz - 640 MB Ram - Radeon 9200 SE + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6

@phoenixkonsole

I see the need to use Linux as base... a bit of memory protection doesn't sound what I would like to be selling today.

Also, Linux has tons of drivers and software.


To be honest, I actually suggested to Leo after AROS option failed, to maybe think about Syllable(or Haiku). Yes, I did it

I still think it's(Syllable) one helluva OS and is POSIX compliant and very modern... But even I couldn't justify(to myself) the time and money needed to port the mere minimum of apps and to write drivers and get it going.

BTW, Leo, Syllable is designed so to be easily ported to Linux kernel... if you're having second thoughts . And according to a post over at Syllable forum, even Darwin/BSD

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@samo79

Quote:

No at all - Windows NT --> Windows 7 are 100% Windows - MacOS X was rewritten this is true but it is the same MacOS of the past (but more powefull and feature rich off course), it have the same look and feel and it was mostly written by Apple developers

The point being it was a new OS that broke away from the underlying architecture of the old.

Quote:

CUSA offer normal Linux PCs, again you don't need anythings from them and they are not Amiga computers

To me, they are the possibility of a new generation of Amiga computers. I don't mind Linux as a base... not a bit.

Quote:

They can put Windows as well, ther's no difference at all, surely i will never by a Windows PC in USA from them when i can buy such computers everywhere

they can, sure... you could put many different OSes up there since it's x86. I don't see that as a minus.

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@WolfToTheMoon
About POSIX... you should wait for AROS ABI V1 to be finished...
TONS of drivers maybe be... but if i sell HW i don't need tons of drivers.
See apple HW and SW from the same man = optimal.

What would you say if i show you AROS 32bit with multicore support and full memory protection but still a small footprint? Still interested in Linux? I am not...

_________________
AROS Broadway - AEROS - Aminux - AmiCloud - indieGO! Appstore - AmiWallet - VAN lossless video codec - AMC Amiga media Center -KrypUnite - LibertyNet - MinX - amigaNX

@phoenixkonsole

Quote:

About POSIX... you should wait for AROS ABI V1 to be finished...

And when will that be?

15 years has taken to get there. How many before OS 3.1 API/ABI dropped and some modern features introduced?

Like I said, if I want a small, modern, responsive OS... I'll go to Syllable. It already has everything needed, only devs are in short supply.

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@linnar

Quote:

linnar wrote: If the kernel called Linux,

Its not the kernal, according to the FAQ http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_FAQ.aspx#Q10 , the whole Workbench5 is a Linux distribution and that's much more than a kernal.

It seems you where wrong with this:
Quote:

I get the answer that I should not be worried "there is no Amiga name on Linux or PC".

Source:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=33054&forum=14&start=140&viewmode=flat&order=0#596997

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AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0