@T-J

So you would want one company to market other companies' products?

_________________

@andres

Quote:

With AmigaOne/AmigaOS, MorphOS and AROS, I think that the community and the market don't need and don't ask for another division and another Amiga variant. The best thing for everyone is to find a way to collaborate on the same project, rather than fighting for a very very small market.

I know. Let's all write Amiga Anywhere apps!
But honestly, something cross platform capable could potentially rejuvenate every Amiga-like community.

_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

@WolfToTheMoon

You're pretty good at creatively misinterpreting other peoples' statements to warp the debate, too. Unfortunately, BBTA had already made that interpretation, so you don't get any points for originality.

@BigBentheAussie
You won't see me on your boards spamming. I am registered at several AmigaSite and I ALWAYS use the same name and Avatar.

That said, since you sound like a reasonable person let's recap a few History points (sorry for not mentioning Aros below, aside that it was initiated by people of good will in order to maintain AmigaOS alive, I don't know much about its history, feel free to add it as I am interested):

1)Commodore went bankrupt "before" detailing in public its Amiga intentions.

2) from REPORTS from Dave Haynie we know that they wanted to produce a game console based on the Hombre Chipset (incompatible with Amiga graphics and never to receive AmigaOS in anyform), while concentrating on WindowsNT on the business side.

3)Since they went bankrupt and completed none of their plans, the ball was passed to Escom which produced the last 68K based Amiga Machines.

4)When AmigaInc took controll there were already several PPC boards (Blizzard/CyberStorm) avaialble for existing Amigas, and PPC extensions (PowerUp etc.) that tried to take advantage of them as best as they could.

5)A group of programmers went on in creating from scratch a binary compatible AmigaOS clone, running directly on these PPC boards. the OS was then called MorphOS.

6)Amiga Inc decided to create NG amiga machines called AmigaOne, also based on PowerPC.

7)Negotiations between Mos team (and their HW partners) to adquire AmigaOS brand failed (fine details about this are appreciated).

8)AmigaInc. decided to take AmigaOS 3.1 source Code, hand it to Hyperion Entertainment, and have them make AmigaOS4.0 based on it.

9)Ainc. and Hyperion were at war and in piece at different times, ended up in war (the last long lawsuit) and in the end both AmigaOne and AmigaOS are now made by Hyperion.

11)AmigaOS4 is the Nth evolution of the same AmigaOS codebase, and offers a single environment where legacy applications such as DpaintIV can work along modern ones such as Blender, and where the former can access the same resources, services etc. as Blender does, and even communicate with each other via Arrex.
Simply put, what you would expect from the Nth release of the Amiga Operating System.

12)Amiga OneX1000 is a PPC computer, next in line in the AmigaOne series of machines. It is built from scratch as an AmigaOS computer.

13)a group of good intentioned individuals (you are good intentioned right?) not related to Jack Tramiel's creation, buys the rights to the Commodore name.

14)The newly formed Commodore USA, adquire rights to use the "Amiga" name in their line of Linux based x86 computers.

15)These lines of computers have an Amiga inspired Gnome installation, that while not being AmigaOS , winks to Amiga in more than one way.

So if some of the above truths will be expressed here or on your forums, will they be accepted or treated with hostility?

_________________
SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

@DAX

That's what Wikis are for.
Marketing does not mean we have to provide the intricate details of other people's products history. They are irrelevant.
Would you tell Hyperion to mention AROS or Morphos on their site?
Would you emphasise MorphOS and AROS on Amigans.net?
See how that goes down.

1. We are NOT doing AmigaOS, so why even bring it up.
2. We are Commodore USA so why even bother with anything post Commodore era.
3. Marketing, of course, will be about the return of Commodore. What did you expect?!
4. Marketing, of course, will be about the return of the Commodore Amiga not AmigaOne. What did you expect?!

Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 08-Feb-2011 at 02:47 PM.

_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

@WolfToTheMoon/BigBentheAussie

Quote:

So you would want one company to market other companies' products?

Please read as an example only, and not for being a perfect example:

ACube Systems

(1)If every producer of product wrote their own FAQ
(2)Was approved by all others as being factual and not a sales pitch
(3)Every branch could keep the same central FAQ on site and merely point to it when asked about the C=/Amiga/Amigalike options available

The secondary advantage beyond the obvious universal usage of said FAQ to negate the favoritism argument, is that you won't have to explain/discuss the exact same things every time a question is asked.
I think everyone has better uses for their time, no?

What do you think?

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@T-J

Quote:

Who's the one with the $30m advertising budget?

Projected over several years.

So to recap, there's a small community around various Amiga-like products and projects. Terrific. As you know, I've been one of the people cheering them on for several years too.
I would have liked for there to have been cooperation, but WE haven't shut the door on it.

Look at the situation from our shoes.
We reached out to them and they cut off contact.
We tried to do something with AROS, and they jumped on that.
Fine. They made their point.
So now we have to do something different, or we're going to have Amigas running solely Windows. So we are doing own branded OS and marketing it accordingly with the IP we have at our disposal.

Anyway, this is business, and in business you typically don't do your competitors any particular favours. Hyperion are not doing us any, and we wouldn't expect them to. They wouldn't expect us to either. We are not competitors with the community but with companies, and there is no personal hatred there AT ALL. Everyone's just trying to make the best of whatever IP they've got a hold of. If you like a company's products then you should buy them, and no one is stopping you or taking that right away from you. However, we have every right to exist and pursue a plan as best we can, which we think will work for us and appease the greater majority of people in the end. That is what I am asking you to accept. At the end of the day it is us taking the risk with the money, time and effort we're expending. If it fails it fails, if it succeeds you should keep an open mind to how it might benefit the whole community.

We've been the ones open to cooperation between companies all along, but when things don't work out, you have to move on and do your own thing or you've wasted your investment. Some members of the community agree with our plan, and I'm sorry that there are certain members of the community that don't. But just because people agree with us, does not mean they are against other community efforts or to be considered the enemy.

We are actually taking nothing away from the community. If anything we're adding another avenue for the community to pursue to bring in fresh blood. Amiga is a hobby for you, and that's great, but not necessarily a hobby for our future Amiga customers who will purchase our products because they want a functional high-spec personal computer with the latest cutting-edge tech. This is what we believe an Amiga should be. Everyone has a different opinion on what an Amiga should be, and that's fine. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Unfortunately, different companies have different IP, in various forms, which imposes limits on what they can do. It is really up to the community as to whether they want to try to work together to try to bridge that IP gap between companies and make beneficial advancements for all. This is the way it has always been between the various communities. Or at least should have been.

Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 08-Feb-2011 at 03:05 PM.

_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

Quote:

T-J wrote: @BigBentheAussie If you aren't willing to acknowledge this community and the existence of its platform, your claim that you only want to co-operate is cast into doubt.

+1....c'mon Leo it's obvious

_________________
____________________________
c64-2sids, A1000, A1200T-060@50(finally working!),A4000-CSMKIII
! My Master Miggies- Amiga 1000 & AmigaOne X1000 !
mancave-ramblings
X1000 I BELIEVE

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:

1. We are NOT doing AmigaOS

Finally ! I agree....

_________________
Theres a time to live and a time to die
When its time to meet the maker
Theres a time to live but isnt it strange
That as soon as you're born you're dying

@klx300r

Quote:

If you aren't willing to acknowledge this community and the existence of its platform, your claim that you only want to co-operate is cast into doubt.

This is the presumption of ONE platform.
There is MorphOS, there is AROS, there is AmigaOS and there is classic with Natami and miniMig.
Well, guess what... Now there is a new option, arguably just as relevant as any other.
For all your talk of acceptance of ones' existence you aren't willing to even accept ours.
Our effort was born from the community too.

_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

@T-J

Quote:

If you aren't willing to acknowledge this community and the existence of its platform, your claim that you only want to co-operate is cast into doubt.

Which community? 68K? PPC? X86? ARM? Surely you don't think a company is going to promote other companies that it has zero business or legal ties to?

_________________
Dammy

@BigBentheAussie
acknowledge others doesn't mean you must put a wiki on your site (and i wasn't suggesting that).

Let's make an example: even though I don't care for your amiga projects, I want to build a retromachine out of your x64 cases/PCs.
I come to your forums and while asking some questions myself, I happen to stumble upon an unsuspecting guy asking about "AmigaOneX1000" as he is "confused".

I then use my post #344 "little wiki", and reply his question.

Then he replies: "so what are these Amigas here", again I reply his question using my little wiki.

Will I be banned for simply informing the guy about undeniable truths?

Would you sincerely reply yourself? Or will you deny years of sweat and blood endured by the community?

Don't be surprised if the HardCore will scan your replies and behavior, acting every time "acts of denial" take place.

Read well what happened (as reported in my previous post) that's where, as Amigans (you, me, everyone here) we're coming from.

Where do we go it's yet to be decided, but denial of what's on my post #344 cannot be tolerated.

Last edited by DAX on 08-Feb-2011 at 03:29 PM.

_________________
SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

@T-J

Quote:

Who's the one with the $30m advertising budget?

Your not serious about C=USA treating Hyperion as a charity case, are you?

_________________
Dammy

@DAX

That thing already happend... a guy was asking what is A1 X1000 and he got a honest reply, at least from me.
Everybody on commodore-amiga.org are well aware of the Linux base of the new amigas.

_________________

@DAX

You do realize that C=USA does not run Commodore-Amiga.org, right? If you want a question about CAO posting, please contact any of the moderators. CAO is set up to handle large volumes of postings of various opinions by design, FB wasn't.

_________________
Dammy

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:

arguably just as relevant as any other

Arguably is right. That part you still have to prove (although I'm not baying for blood about it..)

As for the FAQ, I also don't think you're obliged to mention OS 4, especially after the legal threats. No other company would and the most vocal opponents would find another fault to get angry about.

One interesting thing about that AROS action. How far can you go in making your environment Amiga-like, given the legal threats over AROS? Where's the line drawn? What happens if Hyperion decide you've crossed it, even with a Linux base? (or Haiku, hint hint) Do you stand your ground or do you compromise on some details?

Chris

Last edited by clebin on 08-Feb-2011 at 03:41 PM.

@DAX

Quote:

Or will you deny years of sweat and blood endured by the community?

Someone needs an ergonomic keyboard.

Chris

@clebin

Quote:

One interesting thing about that AROS action. How far can you go in making your environment Amiga-like, given the legal threats over AROS? Where's the line drawn? What happens if Hyperion decide you've crossed it, even with a Linux base? (or Haiku, hint hint) Do you stand your ground or do you compromise on some details?

While these are interesting questions, there are too many hypothetical situations to consider.
We will be doing our utmost to comply with the settlement agreement and many can attest that we've been quite anal about adhering to it in private discussions as well.
There shouldn't be any problems.

_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

@WolfToTheMoon

Basically the only acceptable reply as to "what is the AmigaOneX1000", it is to be found in the points below:

Quote:

6) Amiga Inc decided to create NG amiga machines called AmigaOne, also based on PowerPC and running AmigaOS. 8)AmigaInc. decided to take AmigaOS 3.1 source Code, hand it to Hyperion Entertainment, and have them make AmigaOS4.0 based on it. 11)AmigaOS4 is the Nth evolution of the same AmigaOS codebase, and offers a single environment where legacy applications such as DpaintIV can work along modern ones such as Blender, and where the former can access the same resources, services etc. as Blender does, and even communicate with each other via Arrex. Simply put, what you would expect from the Nth release of the Amiga Operating System. 12)Amiga OneX1000 is a PPC computer, next in line in the AmigaOne series of machines. It is built from scratch as an AmigaOS computer.

I didn't read your reply, hopefully all the above was conveyed accurately.

And specially since the forum isn't connected to Cusa (as Damocles specified), if the guy asks "what about Cusa machines then?" the correct reply is to be found below:


Quote:

13)a group of good intentioned individuals not related to Jack Tramiel's creation, bought the rights for the Commodore name. 14)The newly formed Commodore USA, adquired the rights to use the "Amiga" name in their line of Linux based x86 computers. 15)These lines of computers have an Amiga inspired Gnome installation, that while not being AmigaOS , winks to Amiga in several ways.

Truths nobody should get angry about right?

_________________
SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

@DAX

Quote:

Truths nobody should get angry about right?

Not at all, I'm very happy they have decided to go with linux.

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