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NoelFuller 
Re: SAM460 Troubleshooting
Posted on 24-Feb-2011 2:53:16
#61 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2003
Posts: 926
From: Auckland, New Zealand

@anyone who may know

locally (Auckland NZ) I can find a handful of ddr2 2 GB 800 MHz 200 pin sodimms non-ECC, unbuffered CL5.

It seems that ECC versions all have 240 pins so no good for the SAM460ex. Am I right?

There are the lower latency CL6 versions listed by everyone but no one actually has any.
Maybe they did have. Is there any real advantage of CL6 over CL5 for the SAM460ex?

Noel

Last edited by NoelFuller on 24-Feb-2011 at 06:05 AM.

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NoelFuller 
Re: SAM460 Troubleshooting
Posted on 24-Feb-2011 3:01:25
#62 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2003
Posts: 926
From: Auckland, New Zealand

Next Query.

It looks like one should have a 16x9 monitor with both vga and digital inputs assuming the radeon driver gets to support dvi and 3d sometime soon. The mentioned supported 2D radeon boards, being rarer. cost too much here compared to the 3D boards available to be considered as throwaway items. Presumably 3D boards will support 2D vga at the current state of the driver.

Noel

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Hans 
Re: SAM460 Troubleshooting
Posted on 24-Feb-2011 6:31:39
#63 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 5066
From: New Zealand

@NoelFuller

Quote:
There are the lower latency CL6 versions listed by everyone but no one actually has any.
Maybe they did have. Is there any real advantage of CL6 over CL5 for the SAM460ex?


Actually, CL5 is faster than CL6; the higher the number, the greater the latency. Stick with the CL5 memory sticks.

Quote:
Next Query.

It looks like one should have a 16x9 monitor with both vga and digital inputs assuming the radeon driver gets to support dvi and 3d sometime soon. The mentioned supported 2D radeon boards, being rarer. cost too much here compared to the 3D boards available to be considered as throwaway items. Presumably 3D boards will support 2D vga at the current state of the driver.


I don't follow here. What do you mean by "2D radeon boards" and "3D boards"? And what exactly is your query? By "radeon" driver, I assume that you mean the RadeonHD driver, because the atiradeon driver is for older Radeon 7000-9250 cards for which 3D drivers exist.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

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NoelFuller 
Re: SAM460 Troubleshooting
Posted on 24-Feb-2011 12:37:05
#64 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2003
Posts: 926
From: Auckland, New Zealand

@Hans

Quote:
Actually, CL5 is faster than CL6; the higher the number, the greater the latency. Stick with the CL5 memory sticks.


I had just been told the other way round hence the confusion so thanks. I now know what to buy.

Quote:
I don't follow here. What do you mean by "2D radeon boards" and "3D boards"? And what exactly is your query? By "radeon" driver, I assume that you mean the RadeonHD driver, because the atiradeon driver is for older Radeon 7000-9250 cards for which 3D drivers exist.


I've learned a little more today. I'm preparing a SAM460ex for the club and am getting various inputs involving many things I do not really want to know at present. I was told earlier today that according to pricespy there were no ATI HD 4350s about, boards referred to earlier in this thread, but while looking at 4650 specs I stumbled upon a nearby stock of 4350s (HIS ATI Radeon HD 4350 Silence 512MB DDR2 PCIe) requiring less than half the power of the 4060s so am pleased at that.

However, this investigation included a discussion of dual screen operation. Will your driver support that sort of thing?

Noel

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Hans 
Re: SAM460 Troubleshooting
Posted on 24-Feb-2011 19:25:13
#65 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 5066
From: New Zealand

@NoelFuller

Quote:

NoelFuller wrote:

I've learned a little more today. I'm preparing a SAM460ex for the club and am getting various inputs involving many things I do not really want to know at present. I was told earlier today that according to pricespy there were no ATI HD 4350s about, boards referred to earlier in this thread, but while looking at 4650 specs I stumbled upon a nearby stock of 4350s (HIS ATI Radeon HD 4350 Silence 512MB DDR2 PCIe) requiring less than half the power of the 4060s so am pleased at that.


Please note that the Radeon HD 4350s are a low end card, and thus has low end performance. This is why I'm recommending that people get a Radeon HD 4650/4670 for their Sam460ex.

Also, please check that the card that you buy fits cleanly into one slot, and doesn't have a fat heat-sink/cooler that will block the adjacent PCI slot.

Quote:
However, this investigation included a discussion of dual screen operation. Will your driver support that sort of thing?


There is no multi-screen support. Picasso96 doesn't support it.

Hans

Last edited by Hans on 24-Feb-2011 at 07:26 PM.

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

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elwood 
Re: SAM460 Troubleshooting
Posted on 24-Feb-2011 21:17:20
#66 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 17-Sep-2003
Posts: 3428
From: Lyon, France

@NoelFuller

Quote:
It seems that ECC versions all have 240 pins so no good for the SAM460ex. Am I right?

Yes, the Sam460 uses 200 pins DDR2 modules.

_________________
Philippe 'Elwood' Ferrucci
Sam460 1.10 Ghz
AmigaOS 4 betatester
Amiga Translator Organisation

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NoelFuller 
Re: SAM460 Troubleshooting
Posted on 25-Feb-2011 1:47:48
#67 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2003
Posts: 926
From: Auckland, New Zealand

@Hans

Thanks for the link to your recommendations. It seems that nothing that will fit without taking the pci slot can be had anymore in NZ. One firm lists the Sapphire but its record is so bad it probably has no stock and is unlikely to deliver. Maybe overseas, but I think we will have only the onboard vga until something is discovered.

A possibility is to forget a pci card and look for a pci-e sata controller but they are certainly expensive.

Noel

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Hans 
Re: SAM460 Troubleshooting
Posted on 25-Feb-2011 2:08:18
#68 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 5066
From: New Zealand

@NoelFuller

Quote:

NoelFuller wrote:
@Hans

Thanks for the link to your recommendations. It seems that nothing that will fit without taking the pci slot can be had anymore in NZ. One firm lists the Sapphire but its record is so bad it probably has no stock and is unlikely to deliver. Maybe overseas, but I think we will have only the onboard vga until something is discovered.


Have a look at the Radeon HD 4350 and 4650 here. I have bought stuff from this shop before, and am happy with their service.

Quote:
A possibility is to forget a pci card and look for a pci-e sata controller but they are certainly expensive.


Alas, there is no driver for any of the PCIe SATA controllers. Booting over USB and SD-card does work, but I haven't tried either of those personally.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

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umisef 
Re: SAM460 Troubleshooting
Posted on 25-Feb-2011 2:53:50
#69 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Jun-2005
Posts: 1714
From: Melbourne, Australia

@Hans

Quote:

There is no multi-screen support. Picasso96 doesn't support it.


Huh? Picasso96 for 68k most certainly did. What happened to it when it got ported to PPC?

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Hans 
Re: SAM460 Troubleshooting
Posted on 25-Feb-2011 3:52:05
#70 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 5066
From: New Zealand

@umisef

Quote:

umisef wrote:
@Hans

Quote:

There is no multi-screen support. Picasso96 doesn't support it.


Huh? Picasso96 for 68k most certainly did. What happened to it when it got ported to PPC?


Interesting. Were those two Matrox heads on the one card treated as separate PCI devices (or sub-devices)? Or as one device?

All I can say is that I have seen no support within the API for multiple outputs on one card, nor have I seen anything in the way of proper multi-monitor support. By proper, I mean being able to stretch a single screen across multiple monitors, and being able to move the mouse from one monitor to the next without having to click on the screen cycle gadget (or press the screen cycle hotkey combination). I can't think of any method of getting Picasso96 to recognise a Radeon HD card's multiple outputs except for resorting to dirty hacks (e.g., creating a fake secondary board).

I just did a test with two graphics cards, and you're right, I can have screens open on multiple graphics cards simultaneously with Picasso96. I can also switch the mouse pointer between them by clicking on the screen cycle gadget, or using the screen cycle hotkey (i.e. L-Amiga M). However, there still is no proper support for multiple outputs on the same graphics card.

Hans

Last edited by Hans on 25-Feb-2011 at 03:53 AM.

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

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Skuggan 
Re: SAM460 Troubleshooting
Posted on 25-Feb-2011 8:54:19
#71 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 10-May-2010
Posts: 165
From: Sweden

Just found a used 4670-card for a reduced price at a webshop. Ordered it directly. Seem to be thin enough so that it doesnt take space from the PCI-bus.

Description:
Sapphire Radeon HD 4670 512MB -DemoGDDR3, PCI-Express 2.0, DVI-I, native-HDMI, HDCP, Lite-Retail


Ofcourse I keep my HD4350 for beta testing purposes.

Also I have told the my local computer store to give me all ATI-cards laying around so that I can test them.

The picture from the built in SM502 is a bit blurry. Have tried different resolutions and frequenz but its not that sharp.
It might be better with new drivers eventually.

//Skuggan

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SinanG 
Re: SAM460 Troubleshooting
Posted on 26-Feb-2011 15:12:22
#72 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 24-Dec-2004
Posts: 334
From: Unknown

Another Sam460 arrives to Istanbul :)

Take a look at photo from her owner...


Sam460 - Photos from Jacknife

He booted from a SD Card, he is using a Radeon 4830

_________________
AmigaOS4 Beta-Tester
----------------------------------
Amiga X5000 8GB Radeon RX 560
Amiga A1222 2GB Radeon RX 550
Sam 460 2GB RadeonRX 550

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Skuggan 
Re: SAM460 Troubleshooting
Posted on 26-Feb-2011 17:25:40
#73 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 10-May-2010
Posts: 165
From: Sweden

@SinanG

Congratulations!

Thats one monster GFX-card.

//Skuggan

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NoelFuller 
Re: SAM460 Troubleshooting
Posted on 26-Feb-2011 20:43:55
#74 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2003
Posts: 926
From: Auckland, New Zealand

@Skuggan

Quote:
Thats one monster GFX-card.


. . foregoing use of a PCI sata controller, presumably to use the onboard sata port when the driver is finished. Another way is to have a PCI-e sata controller for which there is no driver - yet!

I would like to know if your Sapphire HD 4670 fits when you receive it.

Noel

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pavlor 
Re: SAM460 Troubleshooting
Posted on 26-Feb-2011 21:22:50
#75 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9578
From: Unknown

@SinanG

Quote:
he is using a Radeon 4830


When big isn´t big enough.

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SinanG 
Re: SAM460 Troubleshooting
Posted on 26-Feb-2011 21:32:45
#76 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 24-Dec-2004
Posts: 334
From: Unknown

@pavlor

He will use a 4650.. He just tried if this card is working

_________________
AmigaOS4 Beta-Tester
----------------------------------
Amiga X5000 8GB Radeon RX 560
Amiga A1222 2GB Radeon RX 550
Sam 460 2GB RadeonRX 550

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NoelFuller 
Re: SAM460 Troubleshooting
Posted on 28-Feb-2011 12:41:51
#77 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2003
Posts: 926
From: Auckland, New Zealand

Today I got the SAM460ex working, well almost. I have no graphics card yet so have to use the onboard video. Assembled from disparate sources, irritations and frustrations compounded so I almost gave it away from the start. I nodded metaphorically inTrevor Dickenson's direction on the wisdom or not of buying made-up machines. Here are the main features:

1. The micro-ATX tower did not offer any support for the fixing point under the end of the yet unfound graphics card. I regard that as important in the prevention of broken traces so had to drill a hole and glue in an unused stud. That went OK.

2. On turn-on the power supply gave forth a shockingly loud fan noise with very poor throughput. Not only that but the one SATA feed delivered no power to the DVD, I used a twin IDE to SATA adaptor to rectify this and supply the harddrive. That drive is going back to the supplier.

3. The 3114 SATA controller was bought via 'Trademe' - a local version of ebay. Buyer beware operates I guess. I suspect it has already been used or misused but maybe not for the 3v slot was 0.2mm narrower than the 5v slot so the card could not be inserted until this was scraped a bit wider. Having no info on the card I had no idea if the 4 sockets were arranged in some kind of priority. I plugged the 2 sata drives into the top rear sockets. I'll call these ports 3 & 4.

Now mysterious things begin. This is strictly for geeks I opined!

So I could boot from the SD card but then what? There was no recognition of the DVD drive which with the CD in was endlessly trying to read, Tweaking the plug in SATA port 4 sorted that or so I thought. Now media toolbox could see these drives but I could not boot from the OS4.1 install CD, nor see any CD in the drive while booted from the SD card.

When I tried without the SD I got told that no slv could be detected on any drive so "up you" or words that meant as much!

I had erratic booting from the SD card but eventually, while supposed to boot from the SD, it actually booted from the CD. I was able to install the slv-2 to the hard drive and then to set up partitions.

I continued, however to get "no slv" messages without the SD card and could still not boot from the hard drive or the CD without the SD card. Huh? you wonder. After watching the latest on the Christchurch quake I returned and swapped the sata leads to the rear port with the harddisk connection lowermost. I withdrew the SD card and booted without complaint into the harddisk which seems to have aquired priority over the CD regarless of how things are ordered in uboot. While celebrating I discovered I could not make it to the net which on the A1, windows and linux machines takes no setting up at all. The wizard quite unnecessarily wanted data input that it should have found in the ADSL router/hub.

At this points to some further experimenting with SATA port priorities. I also suspect a dicky phone connection, so tomorrow once I've cleared some junk from my room, I will set up the SAM in a more robust electronic environment and experiment further, see if I can get a better power supply out of the suppliers and achieve some usefulness.

What otherwise went well ?

I have to say that a micro-ATX box full of SATA stuff is marvelously light compared to my A1 to carry around. So is the 58cm (23") LG LED monitor, so far only used on the limited intermal VGA. It is so light and thin it almost levitates into the hand, even compared to the other smaller LCD screens in the room.

Noel

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TheDaddy 
Re: SAM460 Troubleshooting
Posted on 28-Feb-2011 12:45:16
#78 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2005
Posts: 4499
From: Quattro Stelle

@SinanG

>>Take a look at photo from her owner...
Sam460 - Photos from Jacknife
He booted from a SD Card, he is using a Radeon 4830

Where can we get that PCI SATA card he is using on this page:

http://www.commodore.gen.tr/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=9f546d7760b8dbf04d5a14001b8cf46e&topic=4979.msg48892;topicseen#msg48892

It looks like a two port SATA controller...

Please let me know model and make.


_________________
www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

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Spectre660 
Re: SAM460 Troubleshooting
Posted on 28-Feb-2011 12:54:07
#79 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Jun-2005
Posts: 3918
From: Unknown

@NoelFuller

as far is I understand the onboard SATA connector is not enabled in the Beta OS4.1 update 2 forf Sam 460ex. so You can only boot from SDcard or USB device without a PCI sata controller.

_________________
Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

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SinanG 
Re: SAM460 Troubleshooting
Posted on 28-Feb-2011 14:54:21
#80 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 24-Dec-2004
Posts: 334
From: Unknown

@TheDaddy

It's a Digitus DS-33101 which uses Sil3512. I am also using that PCI card.

http://www.digitus.info/produkte/zubehoer/interface-karten/pc-interface-karten/sata-ide/sata-150-raid-pci-karte-2-port-ds-33101/

Digitus also makes PCI-E cards, I guess we (sam460 owners) should open a bounty for this PCI-E SATA-II cards

What do you think ?

_________________
AmigaOS4 Beta-Tester
----------------------------------
Amiga X5000 8GB Radeon RX 560
Amiga A1222 2GB Radeon RX 550
Sam 460 2GB RadeonRX 550

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