@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: Was JFK killed because of his interest in aliens? Secret memo shows president demanded UFO files 10 days before death Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1378284/Secret-memo-shows-JFK-demanded-UFO-files-10-days-assassination.html#ixzz1Jz5438mW

I first heard of that possible link back in 1989 in a speech made by Milton William Cooper. He also predicted Osama Binladen would get blamed for the 9/11 attack back in 6/11. He's dead now.

Last edited by Lou on 19-Apr-2011 at 08:22 PM.

@BrianK

Quote:

Could you and Lou at least get together and decide is 10/28/11 our fated end or is it 12/21/12..

There's a lack of data to be conclusive with regard to the most likely date. As I stated Nibiru will be influenced by other forces when it moves at great distance from our sun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perturbation_%28astronomy%29

Based on current events I would pick the 28th of October as being more likely than the end of 2012.

@Lou

Quote:

I first heard of that possible link back in 1989 in a speech made by Milton William Cooper. He also predicted Osama Binladen would get blamed for the 9/11 attack back in 6/11. He's dead now.

ExNaval and Stragetic Air Command may well have some 'friends' still in operation. Though don't assume just because someone got 1 point semi-correct that everything they say is the Bible... Including me.

Last edited by BrianK on 19-Apr-2011 at 09:42 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

There's a lack of data to be conclusive with regard to the most likely date. As I stated Nibiru will be influenced by other forces when it moves at great distance from our sun.

So, you are saying the Mayan's weren't clear when it comes to their disaster prognostication? Did they have a 'or not' at the end of their work? And this was certainly my criticism is the Elenin/Mayan predictors are all over the board. It's a shotgun approach here, guess every date and if it happens someone is bound to be correct. Should this occurr in the next 2 years result in all the Elenin supporters to rush in and say see we were right.

Here's my expectation -- Nothing is going to happen in 2011/2012 related to anything outside of earth. (There may be some loonies here on earth that do something but the cause is themselves.) And the closer we approach to 12/21/12 the Mayan crowd will start moving the goal post saying the true date is not 2012 they misread and it's now XXXX. Personally, I think we've already seen that happen in this thread.

Last edited by BrianK on 19-Apr-2011 at 09:45 PM.

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @MikeB Could you and Lou at least get together and decide is 10/28/11 our fated end or is it 12/21/12... Or some other date of your choosing at least agree on 1.

12/21/12 is a false date because it doesn't take adjustments to the Gregorian calendar into account. The media isn't corrected because everyone thinks they got nothing to worry about for another year.

And regarding 10/28/2011, it's not the end of time. If you actually watched the video, you'll see it's the end of an era so to speak. The events happening are simply the events that people in the future will associate this transition into a new age with.

Even the Nibiru translations state that all life doesn't end, the planet goes thru extreme weather and then a new era begins. The thing is that it's going to be on a planetary scale instead of the isolated instances we are traditionally acustomed to.

Elenin is not the only comet heading close to earth. Comet Honda has a greater chance of actually colliding with the planet.

You can see Honda's trajectory on Elenin.org as well as well as a summary of the Hopi prophecy.

Last edited by Lou on 19-Apr-2011 at 09:44 PM.

@Lou

Quote:

12/21/12 is a false date because it doesn't take adjustments to the Gregorian calendar into account.

This excuse is immaterial, irrelevant, and entirely beside the point.
These predictions were made using the Mayan calendar. Not the Gregorian, Julian, Jewish, Islamic, or even the Imperial Roman A.U.C calendar. When the date comes and goes with no big event, you will simply make up another set of "connections" to prove that you know more than the rest of the world.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@Lou

Quote:

And regarding 10/28/2011, it's not the end of time. If you actually watched the video, you'll see it's the end of an era so to speak. The events happening are simply the events that people in the future will associate this transition into a new age with.

Wait wasn't this Feb 14, 2009 when we were told we entered the 'Age of Aquarius'?

10/28/11 isn't the closest point Elenin is to earth either it's 10/16/11

Quote:

Elenin is not the only comet heading close to earth. Comet Honda has a greater chance of actually colliding with the planet.

Elenin is ~4km in size and will be 57M km from earth. Honda is about about 1/2 the size ~1.6KM and closer about 9M km from earth. Compared to the distance between earth and Moon, Elenin is 100x farther and Honda is 22x farther. Compared to the moon Elenin is moon sized and Honda 1/2 moon sized.

When the answer is 0% of hitting earth is it really fair to characterize it's chance as greater?

Now getting back to gravity, assuming the same materials, we have an object that's smaller but closer, Honda, we'll see about 10x more gravity from Honda, but still a small fraction, at best, of what we see from the moon.

Last edited by BrianK on 19-Apr-2011 at 10:17 PM.

@BrianK

Quote:

Elenin is ~4km in size (...) Elenin is moon sized

Like what? I've always thought Moon's diameter was about 3,5K km.

@BrianK

Quote:

Wait wasn't this Feb 14, 2009 when we were told we entered the 'Age of Aquarius'?

I clearly remember being told "This is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius" back in 1969.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@recedent

Quote:

recedent wrote: @BrianK Quote: Elenin is ~4km in size (...) Elenin is moon sized Like what? I've always thought Moon's diameter was about 3,5K km.

Smack! Oh thank you I was seeing 3-4km in size and somehow messed up and put it at 4000km in size in my brain. So Wow even less significant than I had estimated.

Halley's comet is 15km. Elenin is 4km. The mass of Elenin is highly unlikely to be more than Halley.

Distance from earth to Elenin at the closest is estimated at .23 AU (34M km)
Distance from the earth to the moon, on average, is 384k km

Assuming Elenin's composition is the same as the moon. We can see at ~100x the distance and 1/1000ths of the mass the gravitational force on the earth from Elenin is significantly less than the moon.

This Elenin will change the planet earth simply isn't supported by physics.

@BrianK

Quote:

So, you are saying the Mayan's weren't clear when it comes to their disaster prognostication?

Correct. The end of the long count calendar marks the beginning of a new age for mankind. It does not specify why or how we enter a new age beyond 2012, just that it is of much importance.

@BrianK

Quote:

This Elenin will change the planet earth simply isn't supported by physics.

You're basing this on just "Leonid Elenin" 's claim / estimate from last year?

I think if there would actually be a cover-up, you would be one of the easiest people to trick.

@MikeB

Quote:

The end of the long count calendar marks the beginning of a new age for mankind.

No it doesn't. The Long Count doesn't 'end', it merely completes another cycle, marking the passage of a large slice of time.

There is nothing in the Maya temple inscriptions that indicates that they believed anything significant would happen at the end of the 4th World's (this world, just to be clear) 13th baktun. To suggest that they did is to deny the written records of the very culture you are trying to interpret.

The Ancient Maya, were they still around now, would have simply got on with the 14th baktun in much the same way as we simply got on with the 21st Century. Big party, then back to work.

Quote:

You're basing this on just "Leonid Elenin" 's claim / estimate from last year?

You're putting Leonid Elenin's name in quotemarks now. Does that indicate that you do not believe he exists? That he was renamed to fit with that 'Extinction Level Event' rubbish? Or what?

And anyway, if you don't trust BrianK's estimates, why not check it out yourself? The physical parameters of Comet Elenin are available on the internet - 4km core plus a tail of sparse gas about 80,000 km long - and the equations to describe motion and gravitation are also freely available and known to be reliable.

Quote:

I think if there would actually be a cover-up, you would be one of the easiest people to trick.

Actually, he'd be very difficult. If I were trying to cover something up and I made any claim that hadn't already been tested thoroughly in the peer-reviewed literature, he'd do the maths and find the holes in the cover story.

Last edited by T-J on 20-Apr-2011 at 01:43 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

BrianK wrote: Quote: This Elenin will change the planet earth simply isn't supported by physics. You're basing this on just "Leonid Elenin" 's claim / estimate from last year? I think if there would actually be a cover-up, you would be one of the easiest people to trick.

Why is Leonid's name in quotes? Do you believe he doesn't truly exist and this is part of the conspiracy?

Halley's comet is 15km. Elenin is 4km. The mass of Elenin is highly unlikely to be more than Halley.
Mass of Halley is 2.2x10^14kg
Mass of Moon is 7.3x10^22kg
Halley is 1/250th the size of the moon and 1/10^8 the mass.

Distance from earth to Elenin at the closest is estimated at .23 AU (34M km)
Distance from the earth to the moon, on average, is 384k km

Assuming Elenin's composition is the same as the moon. We can see at ~100x the distance and 1/1000ths of the mass the gravitational force on the earth from Elenin is significantly less than the moon.

Size, doesn't matter, it's mass. Elenin's current size and a highly likely over estimate of mass (as same composition of the moon) puts the gravitational force at the position to be 1/100^2 * 1/1000 ~ 1/10millionths that of the moon.

Why not do math to see what the mass would have to be to have the same gravitational effect as the moon? (Have you even tried? - seriously answer this)

How about a mass of Jupiter? Well the moon is 1/80th the mass of earth. And earth is 1/95th the mass of Jupiter. This means if Jupiter was in the position of Elenin we'd see 80*95 / 100^2 or ~7.6x the force of the moon.

Now you claim a Brown Dwarf which has even more mass. The mass we're talking would have to be off by more than a factor of 80*95*1000 or a factor of at least 760,000. Such an astronomical error would never be able to be covered up by a conspiracy. A backyard telescope would be able to find that.

I'm easiest fooled only when realism is chucked out the window.

(EDIT: I had to add the pun : End EDIT)

Last edited by BrianK on 20-Apr-2011 at 02:35 PM.

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: Assuming Elenin's composition is the same as the moon. We can see at ~100x the distance and 1/1000ths of the mass the gravitational force on the earth from Elenin is significantly less than the moon. .

O.k. you've undone part 1 of your fail but ....

If I remember correctly the volume of a ball-shaped object is : V = (4/3) r^3 *π, so shouldn't the volume (and therefore the mass) of the Moon be 1,000,000,000 times bigger than that of the comet ?

_________________
- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

@T-J

Quote:

No it doesn't. The Long Count doesn't 'end', it merely completes another cycle, marking the passage of a large slice of time.

Incorrect. They didn't keep track of this for nothing. It's a science/religion related calendar of great importance at the time.

@Kronos

Quote:

If I remember correctly the volume of a ball-shaped object is : V = (4/3) r^3 *π, so shouldn't the volume (and therefore the mass) of the Moon be 1,000,000,000 times bigger than that of the comet ?

The charge by the conspirators is that Elenin is going to have an effect on earth. Gravity is the only way this could occur.

As to relationship of masses. The true mass of Elenin isn't known. So the numbers I threw out were definitely giving the benfit to Elenin being massive.

A way you might like to calculate this is assume Elenin is as heavy as Halley, we know that and even there that's an over estimate.
Halley : 16km diameter and weight of 2.2 x 10^14 kg
Moon : 4000km diameter and weight 7 x 10^22 kg
So the Moon here is ~10^8 times more massive than Halley.

I didn't do a long calculation for 3 reasons. (1) my time, (2) space, and (3) keeping it 'easy' to understand how tiny Elenin's effect is.

You are correct that to truly figure this out one should condsider how volume changes. The effect of neglecting this was to assign far more mass to Elenin then justified. (Sometimes ya gotta give the crazies a significant benefit of doubt and even then they're still wrong.) To keep it simple I'd say use Halley as that's an overestimate and a known quantity.

To sum up -- Elenin will realistically make a very tiny impact due to it's gravity. For ease let's call it small enough to say 0.

Last edited by BrianK on 20-Apr-2011 at 06:35 PM.
Last edited by BrianK on 20-Apr-2011 at 06:28 PM.

@Nimrod

Quote:

Nimrod wrote: @Lou Quote: 12/21/12 is a false date because it doesn't take adjustments to the Gregorian calendar into account. This excuse is immaterial, irrelevant, and entirely beside the point. These predictions were made using the Mayan calendar. Not the Gregorian, Julian, Jewish, Islamic, or even the Imperial Roman A.U.C calendar. When the date comes and goes with no big event, you will simply make up another set of "connections" to prove that you know more than the rest of the world.

I am predicting major events sooner, not later.
Also, you are warping what's being predicted. Let me quote myself because obviously you missed it:

Quote:

And regarding 10/28/2011, it's not the end of time. If you actually watched the video, you'll see it's the end of an era so to speak. The events happening are simply the events that people in the future will associate this transition into a new age with.

And the video in reference was linked by someone else. It was a lecture on the Mayan calendar and it's significance. You should watch it before commenting further on the subject of the Mayan calendar.

The dates when 'big events' are supposed to happen have already been given in the timeline I posted 8 or so pages ago. 10/28/2011 is simply the transition date on the Mayan calendar.

So let me sum this up:
Comet Elenin is found and it's orbit plotted.
On 3 previous alignments with this comet and other celestial bodies, major "events" happened. (see Chile, New Zealand, Japan)
This 'comet' is getting closer. It has more aligments happening listed per the timeline that I posted.

Note:
Quote:

The brightness of the comet also has crossed the 16m boundary, and according to the calculations of Artem Novichonok, has reached 15.4m. Such an estimate is supported by the first visual observations of the comet by Jakub Koukal and Juan Jose Gonzalez on the 4th and 5th of April respectively. It is worth noting that another well-known visual comet observer, Alan Hale, 1995 co-discoverer of comet Hale-Bopp, was not able to find Comet Elenin on April 5th with his 41-cm reflector…

Also, some people calculate the core size to be around 17 KM based on an 80,000 KM coma. Think about that. When it was originally sighted it was "estimated" much smaller and having a much longer orbit. Since then it's "estimated" size has increased and it's orbit shrunk to 11k years. As it gets closer, you'll have even more accurate #'s.

All scientific 'facts' calculated in this thread are using the original 'guessimates' which are wrong based on new estimates taken on or about April 5th. The co-incidences of events happening on alignment periods are hard to ignore.

Rather than post/rant about how wrong you think I might be. Why not just wait for the dates to pass and see what happens? Or is it more important for you to prove to the rest of the world that you know more than me?

Quote:

To sum up -- Elenin will realistically make a very tiny impact due to it's gravity. For ease let's call it small enough to say 0.

What if Comet Elenin was orbiting something? Wouldn't that explain why it's visible sometimes and other times not?

Last edited by Lou on 20-Apr-2011 at 07:08 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Incorrect. They didn't keep track of this for nothing. It's a science/religion related calendar of great importance at the time.

Incorrect.

There is no Maya calendar related to science. They had a calendar approximating the solar cycle, called the Haab, that was used for knowing when to plant crops and such, and a calendar of 260 days that they used for timing religious ceremonies, called the Tzolkin.

They reckoned dates according to their number on the Haab and the Tzolkin, but the problem here is that every 56 years, the first day of the Haab falls on the same day as the first day of the Tzolkin, meaning you start at 1,1 again.

So to count longer periods of time than 56 years they developed the Long Count, which simply counts the number of days passing since the creation of the universe. The Maya believed this to have happened on a date that corresponds to August 11, 3114 BC in the Gregorian calendar.

They were of course wrong about that last point - we now have knowledge of geology that puts the Earth's age at a good four billion years, and the Universe to about 14 billion. So you're drawing your prophesies from an arbitrary calendar based on an ancient society's creation myths.

Is it really so hard to see why some of us treat this with scepticism?

@Lou

Quote:

So let me sum this up: Comet Elenin is found and it's orbit plotted. On 3 previous alignments with this comet and other celestial bodies, major "events" happened. (see Chile, New Zealand, Japan) This 'comet' is getting closer. It has more aligments happening listed per the timeline that I posted.

No, let me sum this up:

Comet Elenin is found and its orbit plotted.
On three previous alignments, nothing happened, so the Nibiru cultists fudged the calculations to make it look like the alignment coincided with conveniently placed disasters. This was easy, because there are thousands of earthquakes every year.
This comet is getting closer and will again align with other bodies, and will have no gravitational effect worth mentioning because its mass is tiny and it will remain safely distant from the Earth.

Quote:

What if Comet Elenin was orbiting something? Wouldn't that explain why it's visible sometimes and other times not?

It is orbiting something. Its called 'The Sun'.