@MikeB

Quote:

Alignment with what, earth? http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/sbdb.cgi?sstr=elenin;orb=1;cov=1;log=0;cad=1#cad As I stated the last alignment according to NASA's data was around March 11. The next algnment will be at the end of September at a much closer distance.

Had a quick poke at the NASA site you linked to. Do you know what I found? The 'alignment' you mention on the 11th... didn't happen! Comet Elenin, Earth and the Sun only lined up on the 16th of March, so your Nibiru friends are nearly a week out. Pretty poor performance, by the standards of modern astronomy, I'm afraid.

Second, do you know what sort of alignment it was?

Elenin - - Earth - - Sun.

Now, let us for a moment ignore the fact that Elenin's mass is insignificant compared to the Earth, let alone the Sun, and set aside the fact that its gravitational impact on the Earth is therefore negligible.

Would those gravitational forces not be acting in opposition to each other? Cancelling out, in other words? Not quite sure how that's supposed to lead to earthquakes if you're proposing that the gravitational forces on Earth are being reduced.

@Kronos

Quote:

The magnetic field of the earth is so weak that a compass-needle has to be positioned at allmost no friction to yield any results (which will be wrong once you come near to any other magnetic field).

Earth's magnetic field is enormous. What you don't seem to understand is that is a lot of emptiness (actually relative emptiness as it's not really a nothingness) and thus there are not significant resistant forces as here on earth (such as gravity, on a molocular levels => the needle pushes away air, etc). Actually the earth and sun's magnetic field is the primary reason for how it orbits and aligns in space (just like the other near circular orbitting planets).

@MikeB

Lets compare earth's magnetic field to it's gavitation.

a) a compass needle perfectly weighted, positioned and magnetized to the max

b) a needle that is little bit heavier on 1 side (vertically mounted)

and now which results would be more reliable ? The compass pointing north, or the other one pointing down

Your free to put you compass into a vacuum, it would still be rather inaccurate without having "to push away air".

Earths orbit can be perfectly calculated without putting magnetism into the equation so unless you explain were that math is wrong.....

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@T-J

Mars and Venus have a (relatively weak compared to earth) magnetosphere.

Venus:
http://dawn.ucla.edu/personnel/russell/papers/venus_mag/fig1.gif

Also our own moon has a magnetosphere:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/04/100414-moon-magnetosphere-solar-wind/

Please, if you don't know what you are talking about then at least don't try to insult others who do...

Last edited by MikeB on 23-Apr-2011 at 12:00 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/04/100414-moon-magnetosphere-solar-wind/

The title of that site really says it all.... 300-600 times weaker than earth's and only at some random spot ..... mini indeed

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@Kronos

Feel free to continue to believe the earth would slam into the sun (or the moon into the earth) if the rotation around each other slowed.

At a time people who thought the earth was spherical were also a minority.

@MikeB

So your saying the suns gavitional force on earth is a myth ?

Well whatever rocks your boat.

Oh, and why did this minority come to the conclusion that the earth can't be flat but must be spherical ?

Guess what because the found flaws in the established view and slowly deductated another theory and made sure they had ways to proove it.

The most obvious one would to monitor a leaving ship on a calm sea and see how the ship slowly disappears at the horizont starting with lower decks and ending with the mast-tip somewhat later.

Show my the "mast-tip" of your magnetic repulsion and I might take you serious.

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@Kronos

That article was from 2010, it merely highlights a lot of your assumptions are wrong that science has unravelled the "misteries" of our own solar system.

The argument was that a planet needs a molten core to have a magnetosphere. If modern day science is to believed our moon does not have a molten core and according to you cannot have a magnetosphere.

This is a false assumption as I highlighted. There are so many things you guys take as facts because science is yet to "prove" something. IMO it is extremely bad scientific conduct to disregard anything that hasn't been proven (if it hasn't been disproven).

IMO scientists should keep an open mind also if something hasn't yet been measured or encountered.

Last edited by MikeB on 23-Apr-2011 at 12:50 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

The argument was that a planet needs a molten core to have a magnetosphere. If modern day science is to believed our moon does not have a molten core and according to you cannot have a magnetosphere.

Quite a magnetosphere indeed .... probraly just lump of magnetized iron-ore created by some impact.

On a related note, most of my screwdriver have a slight magnetic field, barely enought to lift small screw. I still wouldn't call them magnets......

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@Kronos

Quote:

So your saying the suns gavitional force on earth is a myth ?

The gravitional force gets weak quickly the further the mass objects are away from each other and the sun is at an enormous distance from the earth, the magnetospheres are of much greater influence.

@Kronos

Quote:

On a related note, most of my screwdriver have a slight magnetic field, barely enought to lift small screw.

Here on the earth's surface gravity plays an important role. In outer space however the screw will float without this gravitational pull. Of course within a spaceship there are still additional forces (as the astronauts need air to breathe).

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Kronos Quote: So your saying the suns gavitional force on earth is a myth ? The gravitional force gets weak quickly the further the mass objects are away from each other and the sun is at an enormous distance from the earth, the magnetospheres are of much greater influence.

Funny how the orbits set out for satelites work so well when most of them contain very little magnetic material (you know, aluminium, copper, glas, plastics etc),

Heck the math also works out both for passive iron-based objects (like Mars) and the gas giants producing their own magnet-field.

Read, it just doesn't work out if you try to replace gravition with magnetism.

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@Kronos

Satelites are minor and don't orbit the earth at a distance of the moon and beyond. I suggest to reread the material.

@MikeB


> Satelites are minor

Yeah, and so what ? Btw your beloved comet isn't big either.

>and don't orbit the earth at a distance of the moon and beyond.
There have been plenty science satelites send into orbits far beyond the moon and some even to orbit other planets or the sun.

>I suggest to reread the material.
Allways a fine idea, just make sure you don't just reread stuff written be wannebe scientiest trying to sell you tin-foil hats.

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@T-J

Quote:

Had a quick poke at the NASA site you linked to. Do you know what I found? The 'alignment' you mention on the 11th... didn't happen! Comet Elenin, Earth and the Sun only lined up on the 16th of March, so your Nibiru friends are nearly a week out. Pretty poor performance, by the standards of modern astronomy, I'm afraid.

The reason for the wrong date can be see in Lou's past posts. Lou claimed that 3 earthquakes this year landed Quote:

Lou #478: On 3 previous alignments with this comet and other celestial bodies, major "events" happened. (see Chile, New Zealand, Japan)

This didn't happen in ANY of these quakes. The hope of the Elenin Cultists is to make the claim and hope no one fact checks them.

@MikeB

Quote:

The argument was that a planet needs a molten core to have a magnetosphere. If modern day science is to believed our moon does not have a molten core and according to you cannot have a magnetosphere.

The reason the earth has a magnetic field is due to the iron magnetic core. The moon doesn't have a dipole magnetic field like the earth. The reason is it passes through earth's magnetic field and the materials on the planet become magnetic. They don't line up in a way that forms a north or south magnetic pole on the planet. If you were lost and all you had was a compass on the moon you'd never find your way back home.

Magnetism on the moon a good start.


Quote:

The gravitional force gets weak quickly the further the mass objects are away from each other and the sun is at an enormous distance from the earth, the magnetospheres are of much greater influence.

F=Gm1m2/d^2 = Gravitational force
F=q1q2/d^2 = magnetic force
Each rule follows the inverse square law with respect to disance. Thus if two objects are X distance apart and we move them to 2X apart the both forces are reduced by the same amount 1/4. Move it X away again so it's 3X and BOTH forces are reduced by the same amount 1/9th.

What makes the difference is what the 'mass' (m1,m2) of the two objects times Big-G are versus the charge (q1,q2) of the two objects. .

Again do the math -- you can find the charges of the earth and of the sun. You can find the mass of earth vs the Sun And of course Big-G is a constant so go find it. Do the calculation and you'll find the magnetic impact is very small compared to the mass.

Oh and just as we saw how an object at Elenin's closet point to the earth with a mass 1/1000ths that of the moon would have a tiny fraction of the moon's gravity you can see how much charge would need to be present to have a magnetic effect. From here you can estimate mass and determine the gravitational relationship.

Why do you hate math?

Last edited by BrianK on 23-Apr-2011 at 02:09 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Mars and Venus have a (relatively weak compared to earth) magnetosphere. Venus: http://dawn.ucla.edu/personnel/russell/papers/venus_mag/fig1.gif Also our own moon has a magnetosphere: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/04/100414-moon-magnetosphere-solar-wind/ Please, if you don't know what you are talking about then at least don't try to insult others who do...

As I pointed out, they don't have a geo-dynamo.

As Kronos pointed out, their magnetic fields are about 300 to 600 times weaker, and as BrianK pointed out, they are not dipoles.

I happen to know that the magnetic fields surrounding Mars and Venus are now thought to be due to interaction between the solar wind and their ionospheres, generating weak fields. But these are not considered 'magnetospheres' per-se because they are not intrinsic to the planets.

There is also some relict magnetism left over from when those planets did have molten cores capable of sustaining a geo-dynamo. Why did they stop doing that? Well, Mars is too small. Internal heating due to radio-isotopes was insufficient to keep its core molten. It simply froze solid and lost its magnetosphere, leaving only remnant magnetisation of the martian rocks.

Venus is not as well-understood as Mars, but we can still say a thing or two about it. A geo-dynamo requires three things: an electrically conducting liquid, rotation and convection. Venus rotates and its core is believed to be electrically conducting, so that leaves convection out.

On Earth, convection occurs in the liquid core because the bottom is hotter than the top. On Venus, a global resurfacing event (Venus lacks plate tectonics, but has a young crust of largely uniform age, so it seems it was resurfaced in one big volcanic event) would lead to reduced heat flow through the crust. This would cause the mantle temperature to increase, thereby reducing the heat flow from the core.

This means that the upper core isn't much cooler than the inner core, shutting down the dynamo and reducing the geomagnetic field to nearly nothing.

Quote:

At a time people who thought the earth was spherical were also a minority.

Yes, they laughed at Copernicus, Galileo, Columbus...

They also laughed at Bonzo the Clown, but it doesn't mean that he had anything important to say.

There have been many scientific theories that never gained majority support and have been discarded as science moves on. Including the ridiculous notion of a spherical earth. We now know that it is in fact, an 'oblate spheroid'.

Last edited by T-J on 23-Apr-2011 at 02:18 PM.
Last edited by T-J on 23-Apr-2011 at 02:16 PM.

@BrianK

Quote:

Why do you hate math?

Because it won't give the answer he wants it to. Just a thought.

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@ All

MikeB already stated:

Quote:

Feel free to continue to believe the earth would slam into the sun (or the moon into the earth) if the rotation around each other slowed. At a time people who thought the earth was spherical were also a minority.

@MikeB

The effects produced my magnetic forces in the solar system are as consequential as the thrust produced by the exhaust pipe of a car travelling at 60 mph along a main road.

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