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      /  Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
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Poll : What do you think?
Plain simple paranoid BS
Interesting reading, still BS
Largely BS as Nibiru isn't nearby at this point
I'm open minded, could be true... But I'm sceptical
I think there's much truth in this
I'm convinced Nibiru/Planet X is looming nearby
Interesting gotta do some research
 
PosterThread
BrianK 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 3-May-2011 22:08:35
#821 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@MikeB

Quote:
Reread your own comments again carefully, I think you may be on track into understanding repulsion between planets.
Exactly Mike and we can confirm which is the greater force.

We go and measure the Sun's magnetism (1Gauss). We go and measure the sun's mass (2 x 10^30kg). We go and measure the earth's magnetism (.5Gauss) and the earth's mass (6x10^24kg). F=qq/d^2 is the electric measure. F=Gmm/d^2 is the gravitational measure, do some unit conversion, and compare qq * ___ = Gmm . What we find in this is that the blank must be filled in by a really large number with a trailing decimal point. This means the Electromagnetic field is much smaller on these objects than the gravitational field. If your hypothesis worked the blank would be a really small number with a leading decimal point. Again observation does not match your guess.

Reread the observational evidence again carefully and you may be able to figure out that the maths don't add up in favor of EM as the present dominate factor on the planetary scale in our solar system.

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MikeB 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 3-May-2011 23:05:26
#822 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6487
From: Europe


Bible Revelation 8:10-11:

"Then the third angel sounded: And a great star fell from heaven, burning like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water. The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters became wormwood, and many men died from the water, because it was made bitter."

Just adding because of being relevant to this thread.

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MikeB 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 3-May-2011 23:18:20
#823 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6487
From: Europe

BTW, I think Sedna does not just orbit the Sun. What does it also orbit IMO? Nibiru!

Last edited by MikeB on 03-May-2011 at 11:27 PM.

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MikeB 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 4-May-2011 0:13:41
#824 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6487
From: Europe

"The “mystery” that is central to the book is how the Dogon allegedly acquired knowledge of Sirius B, the invisible companion star of Sirius A. Temple did not argue that the only way that the Dogon could have obtained what he understood to be accurate information on Sirius B was by contact with an advanced civilization; he considered alternative possibilities, such as a very ancient, advanced, and lost civilization that was behind the sudden appearance of advanced civilization in both Egypt and Sumeria. He personally found the theory of alien contact more convincing, but he did not claim certainty about it."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sirius_Mystery

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T-J 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 4-May-2011 1:18:00
#825 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Aug-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@MikeB

You do nothing more than highlight the fundamental lack of wisdom in engaging with cranks on the internet.

In good faith, I do for you a back-of-the-envelope calculation you could easily have done yourself, using formulae that you have easy access to, and what do I get in return? Because I in my haste drop an order of magnitude, I am accused of blind fundamentalism by someone so dedicated to the writings of a certifiable lunatic that he's willing to throw the whole world into a conspiracy to suit his desperate need to be the next Galileo.

Its entirely my fault of course - I shouldn't ever have bothered to engage with you in the first place. But now I've done the maths - The attraction between the hypothetical Tyche and the sun should obviously read 2.01x10^17, as I have calculated again on the back of an envelope using Newton.

Now, will you please return the favour I have just shown, and the favour that BrianK has given again and again (and far more reliably than I do, hats off to Brian) and show us your equations describing the motion of the planets.

Do the maths. If you can't, then your idea is not a theory. Its not even a hypothesis. Its an eschatological statement with no relevance to anything. Which brings me neatly round to the next point:

Science is not a religion. I have linked you to a simple flowchart explaining why this is so. Please read it before presuming to tell us what science is and is not.

Quote:
. I hope this example makes you understand and you change your ways accordingly (learning process).


You arrogant little...

But then, arrogance is the hallmark of this brand of pseudoscience. That and the good old persecution complex. Watch out, MikeB, I think I can hear helicopters...

Again and again you quote your repulsion between planets and your Nibiru and your Revelations and Nostradamus and Mayans and all the others you've dug up. At no point are you ever willing to consider that you've possibly not got it right, at no point are you willing to do your own maths and at no point do you ever approach within a million miles of anything that could be called science.

Last edited by T-J on 04-May-2011 at 01:33 AM.
Last edited by T-J on 04-May-2011 at 01:28 AM.

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MikeB 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 4-May-2011 1:27:20
#826 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6487
From: Europe

@T-J

Quote:
You arrogant little...


OK T-J, sorry if it looked that way. I don't try to offend you but you seem so intolerant.

I am sorry that I may have offended you. I respect your believe in science, including Einstein's theories. But please accept I don't believe in everything current science professes.

Could you please accept my apologies and continue discussion in a more friendly manner?

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T-J 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 4-May-2011 1:29:43
#827 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Aug-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@MikeB

Of course a more civilised discussion would be welcome.

But the issue isn't whether or not I'm offended. My being offended is of supreme irrelevance. Because science is not a religion, you are in no danger of having the Royal Society issue a fatwa against you, or being the subject of a NASA crusade, or of being excommunicated from your local library...

The issue is that you are cloaking a non-scientific hypothesis - your magnets idea (although the root of that is the need to prove Nibiru, I guess) - in the vestments of science, without providing any of the stuffing - the maths is missing.

As soon as someone comes along with proof of a new theory and equations that work better than Relativity, poor old Einstein is heading straight to the Science History Museum. But you've got to get those proofs done and put those equations down before any alternative hypothesis can become a theory and be accepted.

Last edited by T-J on 04-May-2011 at 01:46 AM.
Last edited by T-J on 04-May-2011 at 01:38 AM.
Last edited by T-J on 04-May-2011 at 01:36 AM.

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MikeB 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 4-May-2011 1:45:42
#828 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6487
From: Europe

@T-J

Quote:
although the root of that is the need to prove Nibiru, I guess


No, it's seperate. But from this viewpoint I am addressing Nibiru. Now I've made my viewpoint very clear in detail, so maybe if you reread this thread some comments make more sense for you to understand what I meant.

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BrianK 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 4-May-2011 1:51:24
#829 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@MikeB

Here's something you might find useful. Some evidence that EM plays a role in the early formation of protostars and galaxies. LINK

Though note we've been stressing observations of the current state of the solar system are gravitational. Like in my hypothesis all the forces may play a dominant role at different points within the life cycle. Think of it as a relay race. No single racer wins, each takes turns contributing. Half way into the race when one asks whose running they don't name the person that started the race but the person with the actual baton.

Last edited by BrianK on 04-May-2011 at 01:51 AM.

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MikeB 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 4-May-2011 2:06:22
#830 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6487
From: Europe

@BrianK

Quote:
Like in my hypothesis all the forces may play a dominant role at different points within the life cycle. Think of it as a relay race. No single racer wins, each takes turns contributing.


Both gravity as well as magnetism played a critical role in the formation of the universe, thus the milky way and thus the solar system. Gravity plays a critical role with regard to local forces (planets and moons), for example creating planets, atmospheres and even stars. But IMO the grand force at play is however magnetism, with regard to how the different stellar objects operate at a distance from each other.

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Lou 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 4-May-2011 2:46:45
#831 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote:
@MikeB

Here's something you might find useful. Some evidence that EM plays a role in the early formation of protostars and galaxies. LINK

Though note we've been stressing observations of the current state of the solar system are gravitational. Like in my hypothesis all the forces may play a dominant role at different points within the life cycle. Think of it as a relay race. No single racer wins, each takes turns contributing. Half way into the race when one asks whose running they don't name the person that started the race but the person with the actual baton.

http://www.electricuniverse.info/Introduction

Quote:
Plasmas are strongly influenced by electro-magnetic forces. A laboratory simulation of two interacting electric "Birkeland" currents, models many characteristics of galaxy formation. The Electric Universe is based on the known properties of plasmas, in preference to unproven theoretical physics, and consequently does not require black holes, dark matter and dark energy, neutron stars and the Big Bang.

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BrianK 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 4-May-2011 3:27:31
#832 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@MikeB

Quote:
But IMO the grand force at play is however magnetism, with regard to how the different stellar objects operate at a distance from each other.
And when you get some actual data so we could even begin considering your opinion give us a call.

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MikeB 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 4-May-2011 7:21:31
#833 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6487
From: Europe

@BrianK

Do you still want to hear my theories about why the Earth is tilted and for example Saturn, or are my efforts mere plain illogical ramblings to you?

IMO the theory of universal gravity will not provide you an answer.

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MikeB 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 4-May-2011 7:52:59
#834 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6487
From: Europe

@BrianK

Or theories on better understanding Einstein's theory E=MC^2 and debunking others.

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BrianK 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 4-May-2011 11:17:57
#835 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@MikeB

Quote:
Do you still want to hear my theories about why the Earth is tilted and for example Saturn, or are my efforts mere plain illogical ramblings to you?
Your statements aren't theories they're guesses. And while sounding logical what's important for reality is observational alignment and predictability.

Tilt of the planet? We know large asteroids have crashed into earth which might indicate gravity plays some role. Evidence indicates the moon is likely a chunk of the earth, if true something big crashed into us. Depending on the size and direction of a crash various effects could occur to things such as spin, tilt, orbit, and acceleration. Afterall as planets were created there should be all this stuff floating around that becomes part of the planet, the star, or other bodies.

The gas giants indicate they may have had an orbit whiched caused them to come in close proximitaty and the gravitational impact here could also impact spin, tilt, orbit, and acceleration.

The problem here is we don't know. I give you that EM may be an answer but you are falsely concluding it is the answer and conflating it to a theory when it's a guess. You have no better observational evidence than anyone else.

And of course there's another theory that an alien race created the solar system and spit out the planets in their present states. They would have done this for a test to determine the question to life the universe and everything. In creating the planets they, of course, put the materials where they need to be to indicate a 'natural' process was really at play. But, this was simply as subterfuge to keep the test subjects from realizing they really are in a test.

So no I don't want to hear a conflated conjecture I want you to bring proof. You seem to have difficulties understanding the difference.

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Lou 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 4-May-2011 13:17:40
#836 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

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BrianK 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 4-May-2011 13:41:14
#837 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@MikeB

The first Thursday in May each year, that's May 5th this year, is the International Day of Reason.

I recommend you celebrate this important event by reading 'The Demon-Haunted World' by Carl Sagan. The approach to rationality and reason (what I contend is regard and consideration and thus most respectful) is written for the layman and is entertaining. It's got a few problems but overall is a very good primer.

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BrianK 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 4-May-2011 13:53:57
#838 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Thanks for the Babylonian thought. Again I'm open to this. One now has to bring evidence of the claimed 12th planet and claimed Tiamat. Of course Tiamat was supposedly a type of monster, so I question if the Babylonians knew this was a non-living object. We know humans throughout the ages invented fanciful stories to explain unknowns. Enough guesses from enough cultures and some personal preference selection and we're bound to find alignment with something.

For example, Mary Shelly wrote Frankenstein. The body parts were taken from the grave and sown together. To bring the creature to life it had to have a zap of electricity. In cloning animals, (Dolly the sheep) we take a cell remove the nucleus and insert a 'new' nucleus. To set the clock back and start it reproduction we give it a zap of electricity. Now while the similarities are striking I think you'd be hard pressed to make the claim that Mary Shelly was secretly writing about cloning.



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MikeB 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 4-May-2011 13:58:11
#839 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6487
From: Europe

@BrianK

Tomorrow is liberation day, there's going to be a big party with over 100,000 people in the city park. So no time for reason.

Quote:
Though when nothing is approaching us too is as equally as interesting.


No, it's a more exciting period for most astronomers:

Big Asteroid's Approach in November Excites Astronomers
http://www.space.com/11556-earth-asteroid-flyby-2005yu55.html



This is only one of various events. For example that weird SO16 approaching. Of course comet ELEnin as wel as various other comets will pass earth nearby (nearer than the nearest planets).

It's strange that comet elenin isn't gaining more attention from the mainstream media as it will take only until 9/11 when it's at its nearest point to the sun and will soon after this align between earth and the sun. We have multiple potential spots where we will pass through the dust of its tail, it is very interesting.

Last edited by MikeB on 04-May-2011 at 01:59 PM.

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BrianK 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 4-May-2011 14:11:34
#840 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@MikeB

Quote:
Tomorrow is liberation day, there's going to be a big party with over 100,000 people in the city park. So no time for reason.
Indeed an important day in my family line as well. It's our understanding the Nazi's killed off my last Dutch family members still living in the Netherlands. So, it's good to celebrate the invaders being outest from the land of my forefathers.

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