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Interesting 
Re: Video evidence presented in support of a fraudsters "theory"
Posted on 13-Jul-2011 14:56:33
#521 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1812
From: a place & time long long ago, when things mattered.

@all I looked into this some time ago, if (big if) then by Nov-Dec. of this year we should be able to look up in the sky and see it.

Some material to debate:



Link to story

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"The system no longer works " -- Young Anakin Skywalker

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Lou 
Re: Video evidence presented in support of a fraudsters "theory"
Posted on 13-Jul-2011 16:28:02
#522 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@Nimrod

What's the matter? Are you afraid you will be put in an undefensible position?

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Nimrod 
Re: Video evidence presented in support of a fraudsters "theory"
Posted on 13-Jul-2011 17:01:06
#523 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2010
Posts: 1223
From: Untied Kingdom

@Lou

Quote:
What's the matter? Are you afraid you will be put in an undefensible position?

Despite having had the theory of wave-particle duality explained to me over forty years ago I have to admit that I cannot explain it in words of less than one syllable, in a way that would be necessary to put my point across to somebody who lacks any form of intellectual integrity, as demonstrated by your persistent refusal (inability) to answer the questions posed in post #510.
I currently have better things to do with my spare time.

@MikeB

Remember what you said about George Soros and his media acquisitions?
Seems like you had the right idea, but the wrong lowlife

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Lou 
Re: Video evidence presented in support of a fraudsters "theory"
Posted on 13-Jul-2011 18:59:09
#524 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@Nimrod

Quote:

Nimrod wrote:
I currently have better things to do with my spare time.

I call shenanigans! Prove you have something better to do.

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Lou 
Re: Video evidence presented in support of a fraudsters "theory"
Posted on 18-Jul-2011 16:58:51
#525 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

Peer Review you say?
Self-publishing is CRAP you say?

http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2011/07/do-we-need-an-alternative-to-peer-reviewed-journals.ars

Quote:
A common criticism is that peer review is biased towards well-established research groups and the scientific status quo. Reviewers are unwilling to reject papers from big names in their fields out of fear, and they can be hostile to ideas that challenge their own, even if the supporting data is good.

A kite for you to fly I say.

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BrianK 
Re: Video evidence presented in support of a fraudsters "theory"
Posted on 19-Jul-2011 2:50:07
#526 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

You've invoked common sense a few times. On that topic..."Most of us develop a sort of intuitive logic about how the natural world works. Unfortunately, a lot of that informal reasoning turns out to be wrong, which complicates scientific education" Scientific college upper classmen have a mix of science and intution in their decision making ... Simply : Scientific education needs to convince people to move past their intuitions if they want a more accurate picture of how the world operates.

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BrianK 
Re: Video evidence presented in support of a fraudsters "theory"
Posted on 19-Jul-2011 11:33:08
#527 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Quote:
Peer Review you say?
Self-publishing is CRAP you say?

A fair enough question. Afterall any process by man is inbided with some degree of politics. It's the nature of man. Perhaps as emotionless AI starts doing more science we'll see some change here.

But, again don't make the mistake that because X is imperfect we must accept Y. The same question must be posed to self publishing and to industry publishing. There are magazines out there that publish only anti-evolution or only anti-climatology articles. Between the Scientific peer reviewed journals and the mags that publish anything to ensure their politics are in place the former is clearly a better system.

One thing didn't make sense to me and that was the use of social sites. This devolves science to a popular vote. Sorry, doesn't work that way. For example, the bulk of doctors, at one time, would have voted germ theory as dislike. We indeed did see this happening as Semmelweiss was discarded. And in the end he was proved right. So having a Facebook like feature is again worse than Peer Review.

I go back to the question is fair, how do we best get politics out of the science. Certainly there are some in Scientific Peer Reviewed journals, they are people afterall. I'd think democratizing and self published are both even more political and therefore worse than the Journals.

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MikeB 
Re: Video evidence presented in support of a fraudsters "theory"
Posted on 19-Jul-2011 12:33:24
#528 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6487
From: Europe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfH1xJMJxjk

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Lou 
Re: Video evidence presented in support of a fraudsters "theory"
Posted on 19-Jul-2011 13:27:09
#529 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

Quote:
You know we receive an education in the schools from books. All those books that people became educated from twenty-five years ago, are wrong now, and those that are good now, will be wrong again twenty-five years from now. So if they are wrong then, they are also wrong now, and the one who is educated from the wrong books is not educated, he is misled. All books that are written are wrong, the one who is not educated cannot write a book and the one who is educated, is really not educated but he is misled and the one who is misled cannot write a book which is correct.

The misleading began when our distant ancestors began to teach their descendants. You know they knew nothing but they passed their knowledge of nothing to the coming generations and it went so innocently that nobody noticed it. That is why we are not educated.

Ed Leedskalnin, 1936

With every piece of new research, there is more and more evidence that it's an electric universe. The concept of the atom is only a paradigm used to simplify and make sense of matter. Same for concepts such as gravity. You have all been attempting to disprove things using old and out of date paradigms...this is why I reject them.

Self-publishing is the here and now. MikeB in the original thread attempted to show how new science that challenges the old brigade is squashed and now comes arstechnica telling you the same thing. ...but the old brigade HERE rejects them in predictable fashion... Self-publishing to science is what open source/GPL is to computer programming.

The dinosaurs need to evolve or die.

To answer you more directly:

If something is wrong, it's usually obviously wrong and easily disproved. The dinosaurs have rejected alot of data simply because it is not peer-reviewed and merely self-published. They are called dinosaurs for a reason, perpetuating the establishment. They could not disprove the data with actual science merely on archaic principles designed to keep the established brigade in power so to speak.

As the Arstechina article goes on to say, that regime is slowly tumbling as the baby-boomers get displaced...

As for the Facebook like/dislike principle, that's already what has happened on the small scale in the niche that has been the scientific establishment. Big establishments say 'this is right' and smaller ones out of fear 'Like' it. Making it easier for an scientist to like/dislike without fear of backlash is what is being proposed, not letting hobos on the street like/dislike certain concepts.

Last edited by Lou on 19-Jul-2011 at 01:37 PM.

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Lou 
Re: Video evidence presented in support of a fraudsters "theory"
Posted on 19-Jul-2011 17:56:54
#530 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfH1xJMJxjk


http://news.yahoo.com/7-500-earthquakes-shake-resolve-nzealand-city-161243790.html

This seems to be what dinosaurs call 'normal'...

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BrianK 
Re: Video evidence presented in support of a fraudsters "theory"
Posted on 19-Jul-2011 23:40:01
#531 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Quote:
With every piece of new research, there is more and more evidence that it's an electric universe.
Perhaps. Though I'd say the problem here is you've yet to present any compelling experiments, evidence, or formula which we could judge the planets must move by this force.

Quote:
Self-publishing is the here and now.
Of course it is.

What you seem to not understand is the method of publication is unimportant to the question of scientific validity. Even things in peer-reviewed don't stand up, in fact many items don't. Peer-review is an important step towards proof of concept, it's not the end.

What is science? It's building an understanding of the universe that's dependant upon observation, replication, and predictability. The concept of Quote:
As for the Facebook like/dislike principle, that's already what has happened on the small scale in the niche that has been the scientific establishment
Certainly this may exist in the politic. Importantly politic has no value in establishment of validity. It never has. I recommend you read up on Galileo's inquistion to understand more the hows and why that politics don't and can't hold any value within to scientific validity.

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BrianK 
Re: Video evidence presented in support of a fraudsters "theory"
Posted on 19-Jul-2011 23:49:33
#532 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Quote:
This seems to be what dinosaurs call 'normal'...
What you've told us, repeatly I may add, is that earthquakes happen due to the alignment of Elenin. In this case you've provided us evidence that's opposite to your supposition. 20 earthquakes a day on average? So therefore no stopping when alignments are off and no turn back on when alignments exist. Clearly shows us that alignments are unimportant.

How do you get there? Here's my suggestion - take the earthquakes per day and plot them per day over time. Overlay the alignment of Elenin in our Solar System and demonstrate some sort of repeative pattern. While this wouldn't explicitly demonstrate a casual relationship it might at least get us back to the point where you could claim coorelation. Cuz with this you've dumped that turnip truck.

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BrianK 
Re: Video evidence presented in support of a fraudsters "theory"
Posted on 20-Jul-2011 0:05:59
#533 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@lou

Do you have a GPS, perhaps in your car or cellphone? If not one of your friends likely does. Interesting enough to keep your GPS in sync with satellites is a time dilation. Based on Gravity.
http://www.allanstime.com/Publications/DWA/Science_Timekeeping/index.html

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Nimrod 
Re: Video evidence presented in support of a fraudsters "theory"
Posted on 20-Jul-2011 10:49:42
#534 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2010
Posts: 1223
From: Untied Kingdom

@Lou

Quote:
I call shenanigans! Prove you have something better to do.
Vastly more interesting

Quote:
With every piece of new research, there is more and more evidence that it's an electric universe.
So you say, but until your so called "evidence" can produce answers to the six questions that I posed in post #489 then your Clearly Ridiculous Alternative Proposal is just so much hot air.

Quote:
The dinosaurs need to evolve or die.
A strange quote from one who is proud of his refusal to change. I note also that you still lack the courtesy to reply to my request for clarification. Ever consistent, never changing.

Quote:
If something is wrong, it's usually obviously wrong and easily disproved.
Absolutely true, and I refer you, once again to my post #489 to show how full of holes your Clearly Ridiculous Alternative Proposal really is.

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Lou 
Re: Video evidence presented in support of a fraudsters "theory"
Posted on 20-Jul-2011 13:18:20
#535 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote:
@Lou

Quote:
This seems to be what dinosaurs call 'normal'...
What you've told us, repeatly I may add, is that earthquakes happen due to the alignment of Elenin. In this case you've provided us evidence that's opposite to your supposition. 20 earthquakes a day on average? So therefore no stopping when alignments are off and no turn back on when alignments exist. Clearly shows us that alignments are unimportant.

How do you get there? Here's my suggestion - take the earthquakes per day and plot them per day over time. Overlay the alignment of Elenin in our Solar System and demonstrate some sort of repeative pattern. While this wouldn't explicitly demonstrate a casual relationship it might at least get us back to the point where you could claim coorelation. Cuz with this you've dumped that turnip truck.

It doesn't contradict anything. The plates were moved greatly during alignments causing the major quakes. However magnetic fields are always in play, alignments are just the peak of the effect, not the sole instance of it. The fact that since Elenin has entered the solar system that all earthquake meters have gone up is what's rather unsettling because theoretically it means the worst is yet to come.

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Lou 
Re: Video evidence presented in support of a fraudsters "theory"
Posted on 20-Jul-2011 13:20:02
#536 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote:
@Lou

Quote:
With every piece of new research, there is more and more evidence that it's an electric universe.
Perhaps. Though I'd say the problem here is you've yet to present any compelling experiments, evidence, or formula which we could judge the planets must move by this force.

Quote:
Self-publishing is the here and now.
Of course it is.

What you seem to not understand is the method of publication is unimportant to the question of scientific validity. Even things in peer-reviewed don't stand up, in fact many items don't. Peer-review is an important step towards proof of concept, it's not the end.

What is science? It's building an understanding of the universe that's dependant upon observation, replication, and predictability. The concept of Quote:
As for the Facebook like/dislike principle, that's already what has happened on the small scale in the niche that has been the scientific establishment
Certainly this may exist in the politic. Importantly politic has no value in establishment of validity. It never has. I recommend you read up on Galileo's inquistion to understand more the hows and why that politics don't and can't hold any value within to scientific validity.

The peer review process was well critiqued by the article, any arguments you have for it were addressed within it. It's flawed and out-dated and used to maintain a status-quo.

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Lou 
Re: Video evidence presented in support of a fraudsters "theory"
Posted on 20-Jul-2011 13:25:25
#537 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@Nimrod

Quote:

Nimrod wrote:
@Lou

Quote:
I call shenanigans! Prove you have something better to do.
Vastly more interesting

That's not proof.

Quote:

Quote:
With every piece of new research, there is more and more evidence that it's an electric universe.
So you say, but until your so called "evidence" can produce answers to the six questions that I posed in post #489 then your Clearly Ridiculous Alternative Proposal is just so much hot air.

Hot air is the old text books you quote from. I accept the proof of the links I've presented, you do not because they are "self-published". You are a dinosaur because the peer review process is flawed as the article I linked that crtiques it explains.

Quote:

Quote:
The dinosaurs need to evolve or die.
A strange quote from one who is proud of his refusal to change. I note also that you still lack the courtesy to reply to my request for clarification. Ever consistent, never changing.

I will consistently tell you that your thinking is that of the out-of-date system that has maintained the status-quo.

Quote:

Quote:
If something is wrong, it's usually obviously wrong and easily disproved.
Absolutely true, and I refer you, once again to my post #489 to show how full of holes your Clearly Ridiculous Alternative Proposal really is.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.

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Nimrod 
Re: Video evidence presented in support of a fraudsters "theory"
Posted on 20-Jul-2011 13:33:47
#538 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2010
Posts: 1223
From: Untied Kingdom

@Lou

So by you consistent inability and unwillingness to address my points you demonstrate your moral cowardice and dishonesty.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

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Lou 
Re: Video evidence presented in support of a fraudsters "theory"
Posted on 20-Jul-2011 14:11:31
#539 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@Nimrod

Quote:

Nimrod wrote:
@Lou

So by you consistent inability and unwillingness to address my points you demonstrate your moral cowardice and dishonesty.

You do make me LOL.

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BrianK 
Re: Video evidence presented in support of a fraudsters "theory"
Posted on 21-Jul-2011 1:53:30
#540 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Quote:
It doesn't contradict anything. The plates were moved greatly during alignments causing the major quakes. However magnetic fields are always in play, alignments are just the peak of the effect, not the sole instance of it. The fact that since Elenin has entered the solar system that all earthquake meters have gone up is what's rather unsettling because theoretically it means the worst is yet to come.
You seem to have difficulty understanding what evidence is all about. With this response you've still yet to demonstrate coorelation. You have provided no evidence to back your claim. Instead you've backed up one conjecture with another conjecture. If this statement is a fact you should be able to provide us with the evidence and your source. If we're going to accept this we should be able to audit the data and validate the conjecture.

Quote:
The peer review process was well critiqued by the article, any arguments you have for it were addressed within it. It's flawed and out-dated and used to maintain a status-quo.
My arguements were clearly not addressed in the article. Summary -- every system is flawed with some sort of politic. What's important for science is the ability to generate validity, Neither self publishing nor Like/Dislike were demonstrated to produce a greater ratio of validity. There is strong reason to believe that those systems will produce a much smaller amount of validity.

Quote:
I accept the proof of the links I've presented, you do not because they are "self-published".
Okay if you really want to play a tit for tat game. You accept the proof because they are self-published. This is science my man. Validity is what you should be accepting not politic. Publishing how/why simply does not matter.

Last edited by BrianK on 21-Jul-2011 at 02:53 AM.
Last edited by BrianK on 21-Jul-2011 at 01:55 AM.

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