@MikeB

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And again, why doesn't the sun have a much greater influence on the tides than the earth's moon considering its gravitational pull on the earth is many times greater? Really, just think about it.

We have been here before but once more unto the breach
First take a look at how tides work.
The suns gravity is attracting all of the Earth to it, not just selected bits, and it is almost exactly equal to the forces acting to keep the Earth going in a straight line. The moons gravity is acting on the Earth independently of any other extraneous forces. In a hypothetical situation where the Sun inexplicably vanished, the Earth would stop orbiting and instead travel in a straight line. The moon would continue to orbit the Earth and would continue to exert tidal influences. These would become less noticeable as the planet froze.

Returning to your hypothesis, and with all due apologies to Monty Python.Quote:

'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This hypothesis is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-HYPOTHESIS!!

Last edited by Nimrod on 19-May-2011 at 04:19 PM.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@Lou

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Now ask yourself. If the general populace believes it really was a ufo, wouldn't it now be ok to release the info officially? They seem to be working their way up to it with the FBI file I linked in the part 1 thread.

I agree releasing the truth is a good thing. Now if that truth is a UFO I agree that would be fine to release at this time.

As for the data you linked to. If memory serves this was a UFO document found under a FOIA request. This document was a transcription of a discussion had with a military staff which was describing an event as described to him by someone else. Hearsay isn't wrong but by itself is not compelling either.

@BrianK

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I know of no formula ancients used on such a thing.

Long before Newton was born:

"Cicero's De re publica, a 1st century BC philosophical dialogue, mentions two machines that some modern authors consider as some kind of planetarium or orrery, predicting the movements of the Sun, the Moon, and the five planets known at that time. They were both built by Archimedes and brought to Rome by the Roman general Marcus Claudius Marcellus after the death of Archimedes at the siege of Syracuse in 212 BC"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism

The found Antikythera Mechanism is based on ancient summerian/babylonian astronomy. It's an analog computer, observations (position of the earth relative to the sun and planets) were later translated into a mechanical cycles.

And this all without guesstimates and bogus theories (and bogus theories supporting the bogus theories).

Last edited by MikeB on 19-May-2011 at 05:05 PM.

"the five planets known at that time"

But actually the summerians knew about 10 planets within our solar system next to the moon and the sun. But they could only track 5 of them with the technology they had. The piramids however hints towards the direction of the 10th planet (constellation of Orion, the kingdom of Osiris, Marduk's star Nibiru).

How did all this knowledge get "lost"?

Abrahamic religion. Destruction of and theft from the egyptians, summerian/babylonian, persians and olmec/mayans.

But be sure that a lot of this knowledge wasn't actually destroyed but instead brought to the vatican.

@Lou
I probably have not made myself clear on this issue as the main point of debate has been "is Nibiru coming?"
On the issue of extra-terrestrial life I can state categorically that "We are NOT alone"

I do not base this statement on having seen UFO's because I have never seen a UFO. I have seen a crowd of people looking at the sky and saying UFO, but I saw nothing out of the ordinary.
I base my statement on mathematical probability, the number of stars and galaxies that have been detected, the number of planets orbiting nearby stars, and the wide range of hostile environments on this planet that harbour such a wide range of life. There are bacteria that eat nylon, there are bacteria that include A.r.s.enic* in their DNA, and there are things living on the edge of volcanic vents at the bottom of the Atlantic ocean.
One day a probe may find evidence that life once existed on Mars, or that there are bacterial lifeforms on Europa, or Titan. On the day that extraterrestrial life is discovered the bible thumpers will lose another brick in the wall of their belief that we are in any way "special" or "unique" or possessed of "divine rights"

The mathematical certainty that there is something out there does not mean that little grey men crossed 39 light years of interstellar space just to talk to Nancy. If I had FTL capabilities I would want a more appreciative audience, and if I didn't, I would want a better return on the investment of time and effort.
They are also just as likely to be technologically 1000 years behind us, as to be a similar leap ahead of us, so probably not coming any time soon.

When I say that you have no proof of aliens, I am not trying to be awkward. I want there to be evidence of extraterrestrial life. Any extraterrestrial life.

*The things we have to do to get inheritance powder through the sensors.

Last edited by Nimrod on 20-May-2011 at 01:19 PM.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

I think many scientists including Einstein, Newton, da Vinci, Darwin, etc were all illuminati allowed to "rediscover" many ancient discoveries (as well as make up fake new ones) through the backing of the illuminati vatican system.

The illuminati system mainly cares about power. They want a one world government to maximize their might.

Last edited by MikeB on 19-May-2011 at 06:08 PM.

This coming Saturday some christians believe the world will be coming to an end.

Based on ancient writings the first observations will actually be like seeing a cross in the sky. If such an observation will come true the christians will of course claim it to be a sign of christianity / Jesus' second coming, but is actually not directly related to christianity per se at all.

In any case IMO the world will not come to an end this coming Saturday, but maybe, just maybe, there may be a sign in the sky.

@MikeB

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism

referring back to your original XFacts link
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It was an astronomical device, you could chart your position to the stars and navigate your way through the seas. It was also an astrological device.

He started so well describing it as a navigational aid, but then fortune telling?
Steer North by Northwest for three days to get to Athens where you will meet a tall dark handsome stranger.
Seriously though, the Antikythera mechanism is a clockwork dial indicator. Its level of technology is not inconsistent with the technology of the time it was made. Its pointer indicate the positions of planets and the moon against the backdrop of fixed stars. (The instrument locates on polaris, charts provide reference to all other stars.)
I have a grandfather clock. it doesn't need a formula to tell the time, a weight on a chain provides power to a release mechanism that controls the descent of the aforementioned weight. the speed of the release is controlled by a swinging pendulum. If the clock runs at the wrong speed getting the time wrong I do not need to understand Einsteinian relativity in order to adjust the length of the pendulum, correcting the speed of release. Watching the second hand of a grandfather clock reveals another interesting detail, but you already know that, being an expert on everything.
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But actually the summerians knew about 10 planets within our solar system next to the moon and the sun

And back to this weird word "evidence" where is your evidence
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The piramids however hints towards the direction of the 10th planet (constellation of Orion,

Did you not start this thread saying that Nibiru could only be tracked from the South polar observatory? Orion is clearly visible in the northern hemisphere. Nibiru however, is not.
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But be sure that a lot of this knowledge wasn't actually destroyed but instead brought to the vatican.

Was that the Illuminati again, or the Freemasons.
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I think many scientists including Einstein, Newton, da Vinci, Darwin, etc were all illuminati allowed to "rediscover" many ancient discoveries

O.K. So not the Freemasons this time. I notice that you are falling back on the good old reliable "I think" again.
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This coming Saturday some christians believe the world will be coming to an end.

I am not a Christian, does that meat that my world will not come to an end?
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In any case IMO the world will not come to an end this coming Saturday

Good guess! This time you are correct. And the reason why you are correct is that Harold Camping has no evidence.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@Nimrod

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Did you not start this thread saying that Nibiru could only be tracked from the South polar observatory? Orion is clearly visible in the northern hemisphere.

Yes and no, certainly not after "second sun" sightings (like we had in China). When it is far away it's in the direction of the constellation Orion (just like NASA's 1983 announcement). Once it approaches the sun and starts to go round the sun its positioning as viewed from earth will be at a very different location.

Looking at the Summerian picture in the OP, Nibiru should be smaller than Jupiter. This would make sense if it's a brown dwarf star with more mass than Jupiter (gravity pulls the atmosphere closer to the planet's surface).

@MikeB

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As the orbits are observed empirically you can put this into a formula like the ancients did. The ancients certainly didn't need Newton's help to accurately predict a solar eclipse happening thousands of years into the futureQuote: I know of no formula ancients used on such a thing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism The found Antikythera Mechanism is based on ancient summerian/babylonian astronomy. It's an analog computer, observations (position of the earth relative to the sun and planets) were later translated into a mechanical cycles. And this all without guesstimates and bogus theories (and bogus theories supporting the bogus theories).

Great example that proves my point! The Antikythera Mechanism works based upon a Geocentric model of the solar system. So no the ancients didn't have an emperical formula that correctly predicted the positions of planets. While it's accurate to a degree of eclipses it's fairly inaccurate with other things. Our universe is clearly not earth, moon, venus, sun, mars, jupiter. And while things tend to line up with earth other relationships are out of alignment.

And of course being able to make a prediction, as all things, must be validated. We know the planets don't live on gears nor is the solar system geocentric. The Antikythera Mechanism fails once we introduce other evidence. Newton's is even better... And Newton fails once we introduce other evidence. And Einstein's is better. The problem is magnetism, at least so far as the MikeB and Lou version, hasn't been able to make ANY useable predictions, let alone better ones.

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And this all without guesstimates and bogus theories

Geocentrism is fairly good enough bogus theory to clearly demonstrate your idea here is false.

Now interesting this Nibiru is no where in the Antikythera Mechanism. You claim the ancients all knew of it but they failed to model it? It must certainly be that the Nibiru coverup started 2200 years ago. Way before the Vatican existed, perhaps the Catholics have time machines.

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The piramids however hints towards the direction of the 10th planet (constellation of Orion, the kingdom of Osiris, Marduk's star Nibiru).

That's one hypothesis of Egyptian knowledge. There are others.

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This coming Saturday some christians believe the world will be coming to an end.

And Christ's Apostles believed the world would be coming to an end 2000 years ago in their lifetimes. The Christians, and every other religion in the world, have all failed to predict the end times. Maybe the Bible has a clue - "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night" and perhaps a bit of Mark "Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is"

Mike you made Nibiru predictions, location, size, distance, and speed. Yet with all the qualifying characteristics you have found 0 observational evidence. Nibiru is uncompelling as you present it.

@MikeB

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Yes and no, certainly not after "second sun" sightings (like we had in China).

The observed evidence has been proven without a doubt to be a optical illusion. If Nibiru, as you claim, is smaller in size but more massive than Jupiter and at Jupiter's position it could not have possibly made the reflective 3/4 sun object. The laws and theories of optics are your swag's downfall here.

@MikeB

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And as magnetism is of no effect according to you, why is its orbit tilted in the same way as the earth is tilted? Really, just think about it.

Strawman. I have never suggested magnetism has no effect, nor has anyone else on this thread. We have told you that the evidence shows that gravity is the dominant force in the solar system.

You have chosen to close your mind, put your hands over your ears and repeat your initial assertion, without evidence and without mathematical proof.

I am not going to explain the orbit of the moon to you, I am going to point you towards a friendly, simple, easy to understand source for you to find that information yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbit_of_the_Moon

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But actually the summerians knew about 10 planets within our solar system next to the moon and the sun. But they could only track 5 of them with the technology they had. The piramids however hints towards the direction of the 10th planet (constellation of Orion, the kingdom of Osiris, Marduk's star Nibiru).

No. They. Did. Not.

The sumerians knew of five 'planets'. Every single shred of archaeological evidence tells us this. And don't preach the Vatican conspiracy to me. The archaeology has been done after the period during which the Vatican had any tangible power, and largely by people not under the authority or influence of the Vatican.

You have no evidence to support your Sumerian 'archaeology' except the works of Sitchin, which have repeatedly been shown to be fraudulent.

Let me make this absolutely clear - Sitchin has been proven to be a liar. A fake. Not able to accurately translate a single Sumerian tablet.

Oh, and the Antikythera Mechanism again? We've been over this one before. Its a remarkable achievement, but one with many, many flaws. It is also the product of an astronomy dominated by geometrical thinking and limited to five planets. Like every astronomy preceding it.

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I think many scientists including Einstein, Newton, da Vinci, Darwin, etc were all illuminati allowed to "rediscover" many ancient discoveries (as well as make up fake new ones) through the backing of the illuminati vatican system. The illuminati system mainly cares about power. They want a one world government to maximize their might.

The Illuminati are a Dan Brown plot device. The Vatican is irrelevant to modern science. Newton, Einstein and Darwin had nothing to do with them. I mean, seriously, are you actually telling us that Darwin was somehow in cahoots with the Pope?

Paranoid delusion. Lucky for you, paranoid delusions require no evidence, or rather, they are their own evidence. So there's no point trying to convince you of anything here, is there?

@BrianK

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perhaps the Catholics have time machines.

Ah, well, time travel, now that's a much more sensible story. Its a shame MikeB and Lou have fallen for Prince Phillip's cover story about space aliens and invisible planets.

Would you like a jelly baby?

@MikeB
So Nibiru was close up but behind the sun in 2007 only visible from the south pole in 2008, but only 6 months from the orbit of pluto, and already forming a tail, while being behind the sun in October 2008, but still not visible using an inexpensive 150mm telescope available to back garden astronomers around the world. By now it would have been visible to the naked eye if it hadn't kept changing direction.
Talk about "in, out, in, out, shake it all about" Its the hokey cokey doomsday.
That blank square in Google sky will need to be busy, if it wants to keep the secret safe.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@BrianK

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The Antikythera Mechanism works based upon a Geocentric model of the solar system

That's wrong. Don't you think the people who thought out this device aren't intelligent enough to figure out the planets go round the sun? Seriously do you honestly believe that?

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MikeB and Lou version, hasn't been able to make ANY useable predictions

You may have more luck visiting a fortune teller...

@MikeB

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That's wrong.

Evidence, please.

Actually, there's no point asking you to provide any evidence, so I've done an elementary googling for you. The Antikythera Mechanism represents the five then-known planets in a clockwork model, positioning them with respect to the Earth.

That is to say, a model centric on the earth. Geocentric, you might say.

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Don't you think the people who thought out this device aren't intelligent enough to figure out the planets go round the sun? Seriously do you honestly believe that?

You adopt that tone, which is quite amusing, because its the same tone most people would use to question your magnets BS. Do you seriously honestly believe that? Aren't you intelligent enough to understand that gravitation is the dominant force in the solar system?

Regardless, you raise an interesting point. Using archaeology to gather evidence, we can find two schools of thought in Ancient Greece. Geocentrism was the leading view which eventually became dominant. Aristarchos of Samos was the main proponent of heliocentrism, but was unable to convince his contemporaries.

So, yes, they did actually believe the Earth was at the centre.

By the way, you still haven't been able to counter any of the geological evidence disproving your 3600 year Nibiru idea...

@ BrianK

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is smaller in size but more massive than Jupiter and at Jupiter's position it could not have possibly made the reflective 3/4 sun object

As for actual exact distance at the point of the second sun sighting I don't have a clue. But it should have been in near alignment as: sun-earth-nibiru.

In the above configuration Nibiru could be a little brighter than normal compared to being far away due to heating up by the sun. However most of the light hitting the earth's atmosphere is a pretty direct reflection from the Sun onto Nibiru. Due to magnetic interaction between Nibiru and the earth, this reflected light was bend around the earth's atmosphere significantly enlarging this reflection compared to reality. Light bent by magnetic field (Einstein's version would be bending space-time).

The earth's atmosphere wil also have acted as a plano-concave lens, so observed position is different from actual position (yes an optical illusion, but not of the sun but of nibiru).

Last edited by MikeB on 19-May-2011 at 11:16 PM.

@T-J

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your magnets BS

OK, I was already ignoring you sometimes (due to your behaviour). I'll talk to you again when you demonstrate you can actually count and apply your advertised equations. Not like the last time when you were off by say a *factor* of no less than a couple of *hundred millions* times. This while your attitude was less than constructive (to say the least...).

Calculate the moon's orbit around the earth and sun. I would advise to use vectors. For momentum, forces of the sun and earth on the moon and maybe other factors you would like to take into consideration (but no magnetism of course!).

If you can do at least one thing right I'll know you aren't just defending a blind faith in 3rd party equations you don't even can begin to understand. Sounds fair to me, agree?!

If you can do this however I'll tap my hat for you, so to speak and I will of course scan this thread to answer your earlier questions.

@MikeB

Double standards.

As was explained before, I used the figure of 1AU rather than 15000AU as required by the Tyche hypothesis. That was a courtesy since you seemed unwilling to even attempt to use the equations.

As I said in a previous response to this issue, I understand that I will now hear this from you every time I make a point you can't immediately answer, and it remains an intellectually dishonest practice on your part, making rational debate nigh-impossible.

Answer my points about the geological reasons why your 'theory' is BS, and I may consider the possibility that you aren't just defending a blind faith in 3rd party revelations you don't even can begin to prove.

And if you don't like the way I describe your 'theory', may I suggest you put an abuse report in, rather than baiting me into making less diplomatic suggestions to you?

@T-J

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Evidence, please.

What's in the middle of our solar system? It's a star called the sun.

Those people who made that amazing device easily understood how the solar system functions and goes round the sun. Imagine yourself making such a device. What would be your approach?

First take the sun as middlepoint and use cogs of different sizes relative to the size of the orbital path. Then use different gear ratios to adapt for orbital movement speed.

Draw the design on a piece of paper and it's plain obvious they knew the planets go round the sun.