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T-J 
Re: US shakes and awakes?
Posted on 12-Oct-2011 20:35:09
#781 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Aug-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@Lou

John Brandenburg? Garden shed antigravity device, humanoid civilisation and nuclear holocaust on Mars John Brandenburg? John Brandenburg who wasn't even in the conversation, as Carl Sagan put it?



And just one little question - he claims he's got a unified field equation. Where is it? Why do none of the 'press releases' on the internet present his answer to E=MC^2?

Hmmmm...

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Lou 
Re: US shakes and awakes?
Posted on 12-Oct-2011 20:53:26
#782 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@T-J

You're off the deep end.
This guy worked on SDI for the Pentagon, who are you?

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Nimrod 
Re: US shakes and awakes?
Posted on 12-Oct-2011 23:44:16
#783 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2010
Posts: 1223
From: Untied Kingdom

@Lou

Quote:
I'm saying that whatever makes up protons and neutrons is too small to see so their existence is merely inferred.
Electrons are also too small to see so their existence is merely inferred. Stick your fingers in a mains socket (over here they are 230V 50Hz) then tell me that what you find is merely inferred.

Quote:
You need to listen to (and towards the end also watch) this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzkPlCzu1WU
I've seen this trick before, we call it the 3b's rule. If you shovel enough bovine excrement, it may fool somebody into thinking that you know what you are talking about. If I waste one hour, fifty eight minutes and twenty seconds of my life listening to some CRAP that you dredged up after a five second search scanning for something that looks closely related,, and find fault then I am looking too deeply, but if I treat it with the contempt that it deserves, then you claim that I am ignoring vital evidence.

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Nimrod 
Re: US shakes and awakes?
Posted on 13-Oct-2011 10:32:39
#784 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2010
Posts: 1223
From: Untied Kingdom

@Lou

Quote:
This guy worked on SDI for the Pentagon,
SDI. Wasn't that when a bunch of salesmen sold the idea of "lasers in space" to a retired actor who took most of his advice from his wifes astrologer. After all of the hype, was it really any more successful than any of the other wierd stuff that they tried.
Even if SDI were an unqualified success, it wouldn't mean that everything this man did would "turn to gold". Remember how you accused others of worshipping the ground Einstein walked on, well you did it for Sitchin, and now you are claiming that this guy is also somehow infallible.

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BrianK 
Re: US shakes and awakes?
Posted on 13-Oct-2011 13:00:43
#785 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Quote:
You need to listen to (and towards the end also watch) this:
Tried watcching the ending. If one accepts science the ending was pure junk. Constructions on Mars don't exist. Again if you accept the science of photography as better resolution pictures exist clearly showing natural events.

Do you have a minute mark I could jump to? As there didn't appear to me to be a new system that's more useful in validating truth.


Quote:
Brandenburg manages to define/unify GEM using 1 extra dimension. Interestingly he says his next project is going to be STRONG force
Just before his death Einstein was attempting to unify the forces...Brandenburg finished his work.
Brandeburg built upon Einstein. That was my read too. Who, as you say, is all wrong about science. So building on Einstein's shoulders is more research would be accepting the false science. Sorry, but using your own statements here show us that Brandeburg is even wronger than Einstein.


Quote:
Your closed minds limit your own perception.
As you can see I'm working hard to accept your version of an 'open' mind. The problem is it's so open everything just falls out.

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Lou 
Re: US shakes and awakes?
Posted on 14-Oct-2011 1:37:09
#786 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote:
@Lou

Quote:
You need to listen to (and towards the end also watch) this:
Tried watcching the ending. If one accepts science the ending was pure junk. Constructions on Mars don't exist. Again if you accept the science of photography as better resolution pictures exist clearly showing natural events.

Do you have a minute mark I could jump to? As there didn't appear to me to be a new system that's more useful in validating truth.


Quote:
Brandenburg manages to define/unify GEM using 1 extra dimension. Interestingly he says his next project is going to be STRONG force
Just before his death Einstein was attempting to unify the forces...Brandenburg finished his work.
Brandeburg built upon Einstein. That was my read too. Who, as you say, is all wrong about science. So building on Einstein's shoulders is more research would be accepting the false science. Sorry, but using your own statements here show us that Brandeburg is even wronger than Einstein.


Quote:
Your closed minds limit your own perception.
As you can see I'm working hard to accept your version of an 'open' mind. The problem is it's so open everything just falls out.

You can bring a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

The man has the credentials. You in your closed world just refuse to accept that I was right so you choose to avoid and ignore evidence. You got what you asked for but it seems you never really wanted it.

I will believe a scientist who worked for the government, who worked on SDI starting in 1986, who was in the Pentagon when it got him in 2001 over any internet warrior. You've spent countless hours writing posts to knock my claims and you can't be bothered to listen to an extremely interesting interview from a man that completed Einstein's work. Your credibility is ZERO in my book. Final word, it's all GEM now you have the rest of your life to deal with it.

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BrianK 
Re: US shakes and awakes?
Posted on 14-Oct-2011 4:15:48
#787 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Quote:
The man has the credentials.
First, you tell us all those science books are wrong and in turn we should reject science as a test for truth. So, I followed your suggestion and am waiting for the criteria we use to validate for turth. In the meantime you then claim someone who has their education in science is able to test for truth. You can't reject and accept science. Either it can test for validity or it cannot.

Quote:
I will believe a scientist who worked for the government

Just checking your understanding of science here - I hope you realize credentials mean fairly minimial. For example, Science avoids the logical fallacy of appeal to authority. I am trying to understand this new framework that's better than science which you've yet to fully explain or refuse to indicate where we find. .I want to make sure I'm reading you right - my understanding here is Authorities who hold certs hold truth in this new framework?

If true could you also explain to me how it appears the Authority this man holds is one in science, which we rejected. Wouldn't we want his certs based in the new framework? So how does the new framework reembrace people that have Authority based on schools of thought we reject?

Quote:
You've spent countless hours writing posts to knock my claims and you can't be bothered to listen to an extremely interesting interview from a man that completed Einstein's work.
You've already told us Einstein was completely wrong and how GEM is based on Einstein. It looks to me you've rejected science and embraced it at the same time? I'm really looking for the philosophical framework to judge the validity of truth. You've told me it doesn't exist yet. So, I'm not sure how you can be all excited for truth when we have no way to validate he's not a Snake-Oil salesman?

As for the insults at the end don't hate on the person. Here I'm taking what you say and my reward is for you to pull the rug out from under me. I've not used skepticism or evidence to validate the truth of this person. What if they're lying? How do I test for that?

Last edited by BrianK on 14-Oct-2011 at 11:25 AM.
Last edited by BrianK on 14-Oct-2011 at 04:17 AM.

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Nimrod 
Re: US shakes and awakes?
Posted on 14-Oct-2011 7:47:58
#788 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2010
Posts: 1223
From: Untied Kingdom

@Lou

Quote:
You've spent countless hours writing posts to knock my claims and you can't be bothered to listen to an extremely interesting interview from a man that completed Einstein's work.
So I take it that you do actually want me to listen to this two hours of CRAP and then point out its internal consistencies, demonstrable fallacies, etc.
When I've done that will you again post
Quote:
After seeing all the investations you've done, I really have only one thing to say: get a life. I would never delve that deeply into something someone posted on the internet. You, sir, have issues...
You really must learn to make up your mind. The so called "evidence" that I looked at to provoke this response took up 3/4 of an hour of an extended lunch break. My frame by frame walkthrough of the Zapruder film barely filled in a tea break, but at least you knew me well enough by now not to complain.

You have run away from my list of questions, you have refused to clarify a point about torsion fields, so now I ask a simple yes/no question.
Do you really want me to wade through this "evidence"?

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When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

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Lou 
Re: US shakes and awakes?
Posted on 14-Oct-2011 16:24:25
#789 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@Nimrod

Do whatever you want.

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Lou 
Re: US shakes and awakes?
Posted on 14-Oct-2011 16:41:13
#790 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

Let's paint the picture clearer.
I made a statement that gravity isn't what you think it is. (Gravity is clearly broken outside of local space.) That it's some side-effect of EM. I said what you currently regurgitate at me from textbooks is wrong because it's out of date despite the fact that they've been teaching it for so long.

You all continue to regurgitate out of date information to me because its the 'accepted science'. So I challenged YOUR 'accepted science'.

The evidence I have presented is the latest and greatest. It even derives big G. It also supports what I was thinking about the effects of EM but worded it badly.

Sorry to burst your(and Nimrod's and T-J's) bubble but you were wrong and I was right.

What's also interesting in the interview is he talks about an experiment done in Japan (and reproduced in Germany) using a Tesla Vortex that showed could accelerate an already moving object... I wonder if someday that this phenomenon will explain why it seems the universe is, you know, expanding.

I look forward to him tackling STRONG force...I guess we'll have to wait a few or more years...

Last edited by Lou on 14-Oct-2011 at 04:45 PM.

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BrianK 
Re: US shakes and awakes?
Posted on 14-Oct-2011 17:13:21
#791 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

So we're keeping science now as a philosophical system to validate truth?

If so perhaps GEM is right. The next, and very big, step is to build the properance of evidence and prove the improved predictability. Until that work is done it's impossible to demonstrate the better representative theory of reality. I've explained this before to ya. Accepting without that demonstrability in place is a leap of faith. As you accept the item as true but have no epistemological basis to know it's true.

Quote:
Sorry to burst your(and Nimrod's and T-J's) bubble but you were wrong and I was right.
This is a total strawman on your part. What I've said time and again is true. Repeated here for clarity: The best and most workable system we have at present is the 4 fundamental forces. I've acknowledged science not only is working on a grand unified force theory. And science is even working at things that'd throw it all out and replace it with something new. --- You've repeatedly made these sort of statements with the foundation that science is static. Speaking for myself I've been very clear that idea is wrong. Science is far from static.

Were you right? Perhaps someday you might be proven right. At present that rightness is based on faith, not understanding. OTOH I hope the answer is found and have no single horse in the show except for the continual use of rationality, observation, and skepticism that's drawn us out of caves and put us on the moon.

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Lou 
Re: US shakes and awakes?
Posted on 14-Oct-2011 20:04:08
#792 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

You are the one using a strawman arguement. The original issue was: gravity is broken, EM is right. You are trying to twist it into science is wrong, always.

Science is open-minded, you were close-minded.
You defended an institution/establishment, I defended new ways of thinking.

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T-J 
Re: US shakes and awakes?
Posted on 14-Oct-2011 22:18:14
#793 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Aug-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@Lou

Quote:
The evidence I have presented is the latest and greatest.


Evidence? What evidence? You haven't presented the one, simple, single little piece of evidence I need before I can consider Brandenburg's notions.

Where's his equations?

Until you can present them, you have zero credibility because you're simply declaring this Brandenburg character to be the Prophet. Based on your faith in the fact that he worked in SDI, which was a ridiculous fantasy, and has a PhD, which is somehow worth more than any quantum theorist's one.

We didn't accept Sitchin as the Prophet who Reveals the Truth, so we're not going to accept Brandenburg.

And neither is the rest of the world.

And you, sir, have the rest of your life to deal with that. You were wrong before you posted your links to Brandenburg, and until you can present his equations with a worked example, you'll still be wrong.

Last edited by T-J on 14-Oct-2011 at 10:18 PM.

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T-J 
Re: US shakes and awakes?
Posted on 14-Oct-2011 22:23:54
#794 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Aug-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@Lou

Quote:
You are the one using a strawman arguement. The original issue was: gravity is broken, EM is right. You are trying to twist it into science is wrong, always. Science is open-minded, you were close-minded. You defended an institution/establishment, I defended new ways of thinking.


Nonsense.

We are open to M-Theory. We are open to Quantum Gravity. We are open to superstring theory. We are open to lines of inquiry that are beyond anything you've brought to the table, which involve systems of arbitrary numbers of dimensions that your vaunted Brandenburg has simply dismissed as:

Quote:
Alice in Wonderland, down the rabbithole...


So, who's closed-minded?

And why's he so scared of revealing his working? Frightened someone will come along and prove him wrong? That's not science, that's not open-minded and that's not worthy of defence.

Furthermore, your stance is that if you can't see it with your eyes, it doesn't exist. Reference your stance on quarks among many other things.

That is the height of closed-mindedness. But I guess it doesn't matter what arguments I make - you haven't seen me, so I guess I don't exist either.

All we ask for is some evidence. Some equations to test. Or failing that, we'd like you to explain to us whatever epistemology you use to derive knowledge. We've outlined our Empiricist system for your benefit, why do you refuse to return the common courtesy of explaining yours?

Last edited by T-J on 14-Oct-2011 at 10:27 PM.
Last edited by T-J on 14-Oct-2011 at 10:26 PM.

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Lou 
Re: US shakes and awakes?
Posted on 14-Oct-2011 23:00:25
#795 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@T-J

Quote:

T-J wrote:
@Lou

Quote:
The evidence I have presented is the latest and greatest.


Evidence? What evidence? You haven't presented the one, simple, single little piece of evidence I need before I can consider Brandenburg's notions.

Where's his equations?

Until you can present them, you have zero credibility because you're simply declaring this Brandenburg character to be the Prophet. Based on your faith in the fact that he worked in SDI, which was a ridiculous fantasy, and has a PhD, which is somehow worth more than any quantum theorist's one.

We didn't accept Sitchin as the Prophet who Reveals the Truth, so we're not going to accept Brandenburg.

And neither is the rest of the world.

And you, sir, have the rest of your life to deal with that. You were wrong before you posted your links to Brandenburg, and until you can present his equations with a worked example, you'll still be wrong.


...

Quote:
Dr. Lance Williams of Konfluence Research , a physicist who has studied Brandenburg’s formula for “G”, commented:

“The formula for G is remarkable because, it is simple, has no free parameters, and yet is accurate to a part per thousand. No other theory predicts G to such accuracy” The formula links the relative strengths of gravity and electromagnetism between subatomic particles to the existence of hydrogen, the most abundant element known in the universe.

Apparently someone's seen his equations and that somebody never has to be you.

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T-J 
Re: US shakes and awakes?
Posted on 14-Oct-2011 23:23:33
#796 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Aug-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@Lou

Quote:
Apparently someone's seen his equations and that somebody never has to be you.


Lou, that somebody has to be everyone, otherwise what we have is a shadowy priesthood telling the rest of us what to believe. That isn't science, that isn't open-minded, and that isn't worthy of defence. Why doesn't he share his equations? What's he hiding?

Even proper religions are open in that they make their source material available for the laymen to judge on its own merits.


And thank you, by the way - you've revealed that you yourself haven't even seen the equations. Its just a matter of faith for you, isn't it?

Last edited by T-J on 14-Oct-2011 at 11:32 PM.

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Nimrod 
Re: US shakes and awakes?
Posted on 15-Oct-2011 10:39:19
#797 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2010
Posts: 1223
From: Untied Kingdom

@Lou

Quote:
Sorry to burst your(and Nimrod's and T-J's) bubble but you were wrong and I was right.
You were, were you? When?
Was it when you said that there was a brown dwarf star nearby?
Was it when you said that humans could not build large structures without help from little green (grey) men?
Was it when you said that I was T-J?
Was it when you said that the Sun had a binary companion?
Was it when you said that there was no difference between stochastic and random?
Was it when you said JFK was shot by his driver?

Quote:
The original issue was: gravity is broken, EM is right.
Actually the original issue was "Nibiru, What if?" and one of the arguments against the possible presence of a dwarf star inside the orbit of Neptune was the lack of evidence of gravitational disturbances. Even Newtons equations, which are universally accepted to be less than totally accurate were good enough to prove that we were in no immediate danger. The fact that we do not yet know how, or even if gravity is propogated does not mean that the apple will ever fall upwards.

Quote:
gravity is broken
You have attempted to justify your original erroneous belief in our impending doom by a two pronged attack, firstly by trying to discredit any scientific facts that do not fit your fantasy, and secondly by adjusting your fantasy nine hundred years into the future. The current gravity equations are like a loose fitting spanner, they will do until our ongoing search for something better is successful. As yet you have no evidence that Brandenburg has produced a spanner at all, let alone something better.

Quote:
EM is right
You keep on repeating this worn out and meaningless mantra without ever showing a shred of evidence to back it up. The relevant equations do not have to be presented to T-J for confirmation, but they do need to be available, even to a simple engineer like me. That way one day somebody clever can improve on them, or do you really believe that science will reach a position where scientists can stop searching for improvements.
You frequently claim that scientists accept any theory that is "good enough". This is a total reversal of the truth. Scientists accept a theory only for as long as is is the best explanation of detectable phenomena. They then immediately set out in search of "a better mousetrap"

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When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

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BrianK 
Re: US shakes and awakes?
Posted on 15-Oct-2011 11:25:00
#798 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Quote:
The orignal issue was: gravity is broken, EM is right
Actually no. The original issue surrounded the thought that an imaginary planet is going to have major impact of life on earth. .. Through many issues the 'EM is everything' mantra was revealed by you.

Quote:
You are trying to twist it into science is wrong, always
I wasn't the one that said all test books are wrong and science shouldn't be taught in schools. Nor was I the one that says science can't validate truth.

Quote:
Science is open-minded, you were close-minded.
You defended an institution/establishment, I defended new ways of thinking.
Science is open-minded and as someone that supports science so was I. I've repeatedly asserted that if EM is true it has the lack of evidence, lack of testing, and lack of predictability that's required to tell it apart from snake-oil.

And that still holds true today. You presented a GEM postulate. LOTS need to be done to demonstrate it's as good, let alone better, than what we have now. I welcome people trying but claiming GEM is right is far from being demonstrable.

I'd also add there's no 'new way of thinking' here on the epistemological level. It's the same - observation, evidence, and skepticism... Aka SCIENCE! (Said as Thomas Dolby.)

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Tomas 
Re: US shakes and awakes?
Posted on 15-Oct-2011 21:41:08
#799 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Jul-2003
Posts: 4286
From: Unknown

Why is this thread even going?? Has everyone on amigaworld snapped completely?
Being skeptical about global warming apparently makes you a nutbag according to some, but this thread is sane?

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Nimrod 
Re: US shakes and awakes?
Posted on 15-Oct-2011 22:30:23
#800 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2010
Posts: 1223
From: Untied Kingdom

@Tomas

Quote:
Being skeptical about global warming apparently makes you a nutbag according to some, but this thread is sane?
Good question, lets take a look at it.
Part 1, 1006 posts. Part 2 This is post 800. and in all that time nobody has been slagged off for having the "wrong" OS.

We're obviously all off our collective trolleys.

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