@number6

About them duplicate postings, this is a new feature of OWBMUI...

After posting I retrace my steps by clicking the arrow button in the upper L/H corner of the window and then I get some requester of sorts asking me something about POST and whether I want to continue or not to which I answer something akin to 'Yes'.
The results are now clear rto many of us. See if this on gets duplicated as well.

EDIT: Confirmed with this posting that it is a OWBMUI issue.

OldFart

Last edited by OldFart on 04-Sep-2011 at 07:25 AM.

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@redrumloa

Quote:

They are all way too expensive for me.

For me as well. I've wanted to replace this A1 XE for ages, but it's always been too expensive. Still, while I don't agree with Hyperions chosen way, and I'd love to discuss it with them, they are a entitled to do what they want.

Quote:

How many people get the itch to try out OS4, until they see the cost of entry?

At least you're free to chose for yourself if you want to play around with AmigaOS 4.x. No one is forced to pay these prices, which some people almost seem to imply with their posts.

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@OldFart

Quote:

EDIT: Confirmed with this posting that it is a OWBMUI issue.

Every browser would do that if you press "Yes" in such a requester since you're telling it to POST it again.

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@hyperionmp

So, you share an issue with a popular product. That's a good thing, right?

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@realize

Quote:

realize wrote: Yes I was going to mention this when I read the post about the guy with os4 crashing on the txt hook. This should help for sure. Its on the official imagefx ml.

Of course, If they are running IFX Lite, this is not going to help.......

And to finally put this to bed, there is a work around for Fonts that cause the Text Hook to Crash. I believe this works on both IFX4.x and Lite.

Link

Kudos to Cecelia for posting details of both of these issues.

-john

I am a classic user (OS3+), for fun. The issue with third party dependencies-mainly libraries- was identified years ago. Basically in many cases a library was used when in fact the required function could and should have been coded into the executable. On my 3'x system I have numerous small obscure libraries of under 100k that I have no idea what they do and what uses them,. But I bet in many cases only one or two at most programs actually use some of these libraries. A solution to this nonsense is for software writers to just include the functionality in the executable, or if thats not possible include the damned library with the software archive, and have the installer install it.

Last edited by stefcep on 04-Sep-2011 at 01:07 PM.

@zerohero

Quote:

Who is going to reward the developer?

The users will when they see he/she has put together a well made product that just works. As well as the developer being rewarded for creating such a fine piece of work.

My point is if you are going to create an application do it right and don't expect half an app to work out in the public arena. If they need help with support files or the like then ask. A place like OS54Coders should be a good resource for aasistance.

Quote:

The truth is that there are few users, few developers and very few companies around. That is not likely to change in the foreseeable future. With these prices I think it can only get worse.

That true as well. Which is more of a reason to support each other so everything can work. I'm just trying to encourage some good practices in the Amiga scene. It needs it if it wants to remain strong for what it is.

@kas1e

Quote:

How anyone in clear mind, can compare

My point was Linux is full of open source software where people donate programs to the community. And not all are big projects needing manpower. Of course there are thousands more of them than us, I don't deny that.

Quote:

There is no excuse at all, there is brutal truth : most of amigaos and morphos developers (if not all) are just spare/free time developers.

And yes look at what features are in MoiphOS and AROS for that matter. But although AmigaOS4 needs ome things cleaned up my main target was third party developers.

Quote:

NallePUH not works anymore , since first aos4.1 releases.

I did some work on it but gave up after the crashing.

Quote:

And i assume you will never finish Ciagent , just because of no time, no energy and other problems :) (free time developer :) ).

Well that's a good assumption because right now we know where good intentions lead.

You are right, since I got involved with other Amiga projects, it has been left on the sidelines. And left on my Workbench to remind me.

Quote:

To be honest, its all not _THAT_ problematic if you mean installers and lib deps only. Just release everything in one archive, and use only libs from PROGDIR:libs/ firstly. No need for any installer or anything, just unpack and run.

I agree. But this only works IF this is bundled with the program.

If I take MUIOWB as an example, this killed my Internet volume to within 10MB of it's life! It is huge, takes ages to load. but it worked out of the box. So I think you've done a good job there.

Quote:

Installing 3d party libs, its really not problem right now. Right now problems are no protection of necessary os components to avoid crashes, freezes and lockup, all those opengl , smp and other stuff. So, i think developers will even not worry about for some

If I go back and use MakeCD as an example that has third party sutff for the GUI and yet that installs fine. So following that example would work wel I think. And making use of PROGDIR local files.

It might make the archive bigger but IMHO that's better if the product works. Things can be installed to LIBS if an installer is there to check them and make sure they are better or don't exist.

Quote:

Gui-shmui .. I read from all the developers in last 2 years how limited reaction in that and that areas, to make modern GUI apps, and MUI was a bit anctient till now, so how you expect to have amigaos full of fancy and cool gui programms ?

I didn't sat it had to be fancy smancy. Just to have a GUI, even a basic one if possible. But it should meet a minimum standard. I know Reaction doesn't live up the the docs taking about it. I don't know why the docs are better than Reaction itself. But it is fine for creating GUIs. Otherwise all the Workbench programs would have been stuffed!

@umisef

First it will look for foo.library on the resident list. Then try and Lock foo.library. Finally it wil try and just OpenLibrary("PROGDIR:libs/foo.library",0).

As demonstrated here:
00932 : ramlib : FAIL = [exec] FindResident("foo.library") [69uS]
00933 : ramlib : FAIL = Lock("PROGDIR:libs/foo.library",SHARED) [318uS]
00934 : openlibtest : FAIL = [exec]


Of course in my test it doesn't exist so can do a working test later.

@Hypex
Quote:

If I take MUIOWB as an example, this killed my Internet volume to within 10MB of it's life! It is huge, takes ages to load.

No so related to talks about installers, but : If you want full featured browser with supporting of all the modern features such as css, svg and all the stuuf, then of course browser will be huge.

About takes ages to load: did you run it from FFS ? If so, then of course (i use it from jxfs) Sure, it starts slower than ibrowse and netsurf, and even ra-owb (ra-owb start in 3 seconds, muiowb in 5 seconds for me), but its all understanable why : more features -> more code -> bigger binary -> slower loading.

Of course it possible to disable fully libicu (to have only one language), svg, js and all the stuff, and so, muiowb will works the same as ibrowse 1:1 and will loads the same, and rednder pages the same fast (and the same bad).

About your internet volume .. well, dunno what to say. Is anyone today make a 50-100mb partitions still, while there is 1terabytes hdds, then maybe modern apps is not for you :)

Quote:

but it worked out of the box. So I think you've done a good job there.

And that show us that its pretty enough to put libs/classes to archive, and just use them with "PROGDIR:" from code. No need to worry in all that installers and make big problems from, its all just need to make static, as less as possible depends on 3d party libs/classes, and if still, then put them to PROGDIR:

Last edited by kas1e on 04-Sep-2011 at 03:30 PM.
Last edited by kas1e on 04-Sep-2011 at 03:30 PM.

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@Metalheart

Well, the situation probably isn't going to improve. I suggest you start using MacOS,
there everything works out of the box. No need to tinker with things.

@Kotler

No need for tinkering.... and to add some extra, it isn't possible either. At least, that's my experience with OSX.

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@Hypex

Quote:

Hypex wrote: @umisef First it will look for foo.library on the resident list. Then try and Lock foo.library. Finally it wil try and just OpenLibrary("PROGDIR:libs/foo.library",0). As demonstrated here: 00932 : ramlib : FAIL = [exec] FindResident("foo.library") [69uS] 00933 : ramlib : FAIL = Lock("PROGDIR:libs/foo.library",SHARED) [318uS] 00934 : openlibtest : FAIL = [exec]

Another example of why putting libraries in PROGDIR:libs/ is a stupid idea.
Imagine you have 2 apps both having foo.library in their libs directory, but app1 has foo v1.0, and app2 has (and needs) foo v2.0.
Start app1, and foo.library v1.0 is added to exec's liblist.
Now start app2, it tries to open foo.library v2 , but fails because it OpenLibrary() finds v1 in the liblist. If app2 is properly written, it should pop up an error message informing the user that it can't open foo v2, and quit.
So now you have a confused end user, wondering why app2 can't open that library when a quick check shows that it exists, and has the right version number!

Also what happens when the author of foo.library releases a new version to fix some bugs? Are you suggesting that it's OK to make the average user search through their entire HD to check if any apps they use have an old version in PROGDIR:libs, and then manually replace them ?
What about the authors of programs that use foo.library, do they have to keep checking for new versions and make a new archive each time foo is updated, even though their program hasn't been updated in ages ?

Kinda negates all the hard work Rigo did creating AmiUpdate.

_________________

@zerohero

Quote:

Every browser would do that if you press "Yes" in such a requester since you're telling it to POST it again.

Alright, I can live with that.

But then I have just one other option: stay put (aka 'NO'). Which certainly is not what I want as i want to get up the tree if you grasp what I mean with that.
The last resort option is simply to close the browser and open it again. Rather clumsy isn't it? Maybe I'm overlooking something here, but why pester me with a that requester if I already successfully did a post??????? I think the browser should remember that somehow and NOT issue that requester at all. For now I stick to the conclusion that it is a MUIOWB issue.
I know it is easy and rather common practice to blame external factors for some unexpected behaviour in stead of looking at ones own shortcomings in that respect and I really do wonder if I'm the only one with this issue? I'll have a look into the settingsstuff and try to find out.

OldFart

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@OldFart

What happens if you click NO and then the 'Home' link?
Does your post get posted?

Give it a try,,,,I think there's some space left on the internet.

Last edited by Mechanic on 04-Sep-2011 at 06:58 PM.

@opi

Actually what this means is that Flash will soon be relegated to history, being offered as an option at best.

Apple's overwhelming success in the consumer market will ensure that.

MS applied this strategy quite successfully in the past.

So this is one issue that will resolve itself.

_________________

@Hyperionmp

Quote:

Actually what this means is that Flash will soon be relegated to history, being offered as an option at best.

It will take years before Flash will be replaced by open standard. I personally don't mind not having Flash but there's way too much content produced for Adobe's technologies to say "soon this is not going to be an issue".

Hell, companies are still fighting about video containers. And there's no DRM (you have to link to proper video when you're using HTML5's video tag) so VOD services won't move away from from Flash. And even if there's going to be one, widely adapted, video container with DRM… we're going hit problems with licences.

Flash is lowest common denominator. If you don't have Apple's ecosystem of application (packaging open web into applications) you can't ride of their success.

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@Mechanic

Quote:

What happens if you click NO and then the 'Home' link?

That would mean thati was jumping out from the current site and move over to the one as configured by the 'Home' button. And that would be the same more or less as simply closing the browser and open it up again. As I already said: quite a clumsy method.

Thanks for bearing with me, though.

OldFart

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@OldFart

Quote:

Thanks for bearing with me, though.

Just be glad this wasn't a credit card transaction, or something similar. You would have resend those details again, as well.

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@OldFart

Quote:

But then I have just one other option: stay put (aka 'NO'). Which certainly is not what I want as i want to get up the tree if you grasp what I mean with that. The last resort option is simply to close the browser and open it again. Rather clumsy isn't it? Maybe I'm overlooking something

Right-click on the back button and select a place before the form post page.

All browsers except RA-OWB supports that.

Last edited by Deniil715 on 05-Sep-2011 at 02:53 PM.

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