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amigadave 
Why does there seem to be more OS4 users than MorphOS users?
Posted on 28-Oct-2011 4:54:49
#1 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1731
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

This might seem like a really stupid question to ask to some of you, but I really want to read some objective answers (without all of the usual fighting and slamming of one side or the other)

Specially within the USA, there seem to be more OS4 users than MorphOS users, and being a MorphOS user and supporter, I wonder why this is the case. I know some of the answers are just non-objective personal likes, or dislikes, based on feelings and not anything tangible, or measurable.

I will admit that my motive for this thread is to increase the MorphOS user base, so there is no hidden agenda here. I want more users and more programmers working to write MorphOS native applications and games. I don't have any ill intentions toward OS4 and its users, or developers, but my intentions may have side effects that eventually lead to some users switching from one OS to the other. It has been my experience though that most Amiga users have many different systems, so adding one more that runs MorphOS would not be unusual for many of the existing OS4 users. I already know several MorphOS users that also have OS4 machines as well.

So, with that long winded explanation of my intentions and curiosity, why do most of you think there are more OS4 users (specially in the USA) than MorphOS users?

Do most, or many OS4 users feel that if they were to try MorphOS, or become users of both OS4 and MorphOS they would be betraying their OS4 brethren in some way?

As I have stated a few times in the past, I would certainly become both an OS4 and MorphOS user if I could afford any OS4 hardware, and I admit that I am really in love with the X1000 case. If I had the money I would buy an X1000 in a heartbeat for many reasons, such as the fact that it will likely be a very rare machine, for the cool factor, and to run OS4 on the fastest hardware that is available for it.

How many OS4 users are interested in obtaining a system to run MorphOS, if you don't already have a Pegasos 2?

Since the price will be about the same, how many of you will be getting a 1.67GHz G4 PowerBook to run MorphOS3.0 on (which should be released by the end of this year), instead of, or in addition to an OS4 netbook when they are released next year?

Last edited by amigadave on 28-Oct-2011 at 04:58 AM.

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Toaks 
Re: Why does there seem to be more OS4 users than MorphOS users?
Posted on 28-Oct-2011 5:14:00
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 8042
From: amigaguru.com

@amigadave

because i have tried(and used for a longer time) both and i ended on OS4 due to the awesome community and the OS4 on tour events.

That said, bbrv was the final nail in my coffin as with many others(for not chosing morphos).

anyway, its funny how people seem to forget WHY and WHAT happened on amiga.org,ann.lu,moo,amigaworld and so on but thats what happens when you have with people i guess.

ps:2 very close friends here where i live use MorphOS, great guys but when i ask them why do you use MorphOS they just say, because i do... no particular reason really.

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smf 
Re: Why does there seem to be more OS4 users than MorphOS users?
Posted on 28-Oct-2011 5:14:51
#3 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Mar-2003
Posts: 333
From: Växjö, Sweden

@amigadave

I can only answer for myself and for me it's because i'm only intrested in Amiga and i don't care much about morphos, windows, linux and other OS'es. I have an Peg2 with registered mos 2.x and Os4.1 so i can multiboot but i rarely start Mos on it since os4 was released for it.

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tekmage 
Re: Why does there seem to be more OS4 users than MorphOS users?
Posted on 28-Oct-2011 5:20:25
#4 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Mar-2005
Posts: 439
From: San Francisco

@amigadave

I can only speak for my self and as an OS4 user. For me, I've looked at MorphOS, mainly at Amiwest and the machines you are kind enough to bring. I do like the way MorphOS looks and it seams like there are a number of good programs. I find my time and budget limited so I just don't feel taking on another platform activitly. I also like OS4, it's devs, and it's users. At some point I hope to have a Mac land in my lap to play with MorphOS.

Thanks for asking the question and I hope you've got your asbestos suit ready :)

Cheers,
Bill

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bitman 
Re: Why does there seem to be more OS4 users than MorphOS users?
Posted on 28-Oct-2011 5:43:40
#5 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2008
Posts: 705
From: Fredericia, Denmark

I'm only interested in "real Amiga", which I don't consider the alternatives to be.

Secondly - I'm very against anything Apple, so I would not use an OS running on Apple HW.....

I also think that people like me who returns after years of absence, returns to the OS they left.

Last edited by bitman on 28-Oct-2011 at 05:48 AM.
Last edited by bitman on 28-Oct-2011 at 05:46 AM.

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amigadave 
Re: Why does there seem to be more OS4 users than MorphOS users?
Posted on 28-Oct-2011 5:46:07
#6 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1731
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

Thanks for all of the replies. Yes, I knew when starting this thread that the potential for getting flamed was very high, so the Asbestos suit was on before the thread was started.

I hope that it does not deteriorate into a flame fest too quickly though, not before I get some good objective answers.

As for the Genesi connection being a reason for not wanting to use MorphOS, that should no longer be an issue, as Genesi has zero to do with MorphOS any longer.

I came to MorphOS late and missed out on most of the fighting and name calling of the past, so I have no interest in reliving it now. For those of you that still bear grudges against each other, I feel sorry for you and hope that you grow out of it some day. Almost all of the OS4 and MorphOS users and developers I know are over their differences and co-exist without any animosity toward each other any more.

All I can say about the past is that some mistakes must have been made in presenting MorphOS to the many Amiga users that were waiting for a Next Gen Amiga system, or more of you would have jumped on the MorphOS bandwagon a long time ago, instead of waiting for AmigaOS4.x as long as you did.

So, I will give you credit for your patience, as from what I have seen and read, AmigaOS4.x was difficult to stick with in its early days, but has now become a very usable system. I think that both OS4 and MorphOS are interesting systems that have evolved far enough to be used for most computing tasks that the average computer user wants to do on their Windows and Mac, or Linux systems today. They both still have a long way to go to become full replacements, but they are useful today. I have almost zero knowledge of AROS, and its current state of usefulness, but I will probably look into it more in the near future, and from what little I have read, it is also getting close to being at the same state of usefulness as MorphOS and OS4 are now.

It is not my intention to offend the users of any OS, and I respect everyone's personal choices.

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itix 
Re: Why does there seem to be more OS4 users than MorphOS users?
Posted on 28-Oct-2011 6:09:34
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@amigadave

Amiga Inc is/was located in the North America so it should partially explain why OS4 is more popular there. It is the same in England where Eyetech was located. On the other hand many MorphOS core developers are from Poland where OS4 is almost dead.

Generally I wouldnt worry about it. Good product sells itself.

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amigadave 
Re: Why does there seem to be more OS4 users than MorphOS users?
Posted on 28-Oct-2011 6:22:55
#8 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1731
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

Maybe I should refine my question. Since I was not active in any Amiga community for several years and missed out on all the really nasty fighting between MorphOS, AROS and OS4 users & developers, I do not understand why more people did not choose to migrate to MorphOS, since it was available and OS4 was not yet finished yet.

Looking back at the timeline of Amiga derived OSes, work first began on AROS around 1995, or 1996, but progress was very slow and nothing usable existed for a long time. Work on MorphOS started, or was first released in 2000 and work, or a release of OS4 was not available until 2004. The exact dates are not important, what my question is about is why when there was a Next Gen Amiga option available in the form of AROS and MorphOS did more people wait for OS4?

From what little knowledge I have about those early years of Next Gen Amiga systems, it appears that MorphOS was in a usable state long before any other system that was written based on the Amiga API. So it is puzzling to me why more people are not MorphOS users that switched to OS4 once it was available years later. Maybe that is what happened to many of the users that were using MorphOS1.4.5 when it was still available to be registered and they switched when MorphOS2.0 came out and needed to be paid for. From what I have read, there were many more MorphOS users than the current approx. 1200 MorphOS licenses that have been sold.

Anyone who says that AROS and MorphOS are not Amiga systems are only fooling themselves and not anyone else. All three systems, OS4, MorphOS and AROS were written using the Amiga API documentation. MorphOS and OS4 are PPC re-implementations of 68k AmigaOS3.x and share many of its ideas and functionality. AROS is the same, but probably an even more strict re-write of AmigaOS3.1 for multiple hardware platforms, including x86 and ARM. How can they be any less "Amiga" than OS4, except in name only. There is no original Amiga 68k code in OS4, as it is all rewritten for PPC, just like MorphOS is written for PPC, so this nonsense about the "Real" Amiga is foolish and a waste of time. Please don't pollute this thread with your opinions about what a "Real" Amiga is, or is not. It is not relevant to my questions.

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tcheko 
Re: Why does there seem to be more OS4 users than MorphOS users?
Posted on 28-Oct-2011 6:27:12
#9 ]
Member
Joined: 5-May-2010
Posts: 17
From: Unknown

I use MorphOS :

- total cost of ownership (regged since 2.0 on Efika, then Mini)
- technical achievement
- performances
- MUI
- Software (OWB, Mplayer, Scribble, shell, SDK...)

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MaximvsPayne 
Re: Why does there seem to be more OS4 users than MorphOS users?
Posted on 28-Oct-2011 6:39:09
#10 ]
Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2010
Posts: 60
From: Germany

i like every ng-amiga system. morphos looks awesome but i couldnt get it to work back in the days on my a1200-t with my bppc and my bvision. at the moment i use aros and ubuntu on my computers. i dont like microsoft and apple and maybe because of this i dont like the fact,that morphos targets old macs today. the fact,that there are so much things changing for the better today in the os4 scene makes me wanna buy one of these netbooks and if i have enough money i also want an amigaone 500 and/or an x1000. its nice to be in the amiga-scene these days - the things are changing for a better future. by the way, the people shouldnt forget,that morphos brought us cool programms like muiowb and mui-mplayer. thx

Last edited by MaximvsPayne on 28-Oct-2011 at 06:44 AM.

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pavlor 
Re: Why does there seem to be more OS4 users than MorphOS users?
Posted on 28-Oct-2011 6:48:16
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9578
From: Unknown

@amigadave

Quote:
Anyone who says that AROS and MorphOS are not Amiga systems are only fooling themselves and not anyone else.


Here is answer for your question.

AmigaOS4 is for some people real continuation of their beloved OS, Morphos and AROS only nice other OSs in the broader Amiga family (like pOS in its days).

Quote:
How can they be any less "Amiga" than OS4, except in name only. There is no original Amiga 68k code in OS4, as it is all rewritten for PPC


I really like this video. Can AROS or MorphOS show the same direct connection to the original AmigaOS?

Quote:
Please don't pollute this thread with your opinions about what a "Real" Amiga is, or is not. It is not relevant to my questions.


It is more relevant than you think. Why would someone waste money on inferior A1 and wait another two years for the first OS4 prerelease, when Pegasos with MorphOS is cheaper and offers more features? Why would someone buy SAM with OS4, when he can buy MacMini with MorphOS for fracture of price of SAM?
Don´t search logic in it.

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amigadave 
Re: Why does there seem to be more OS4 users than MorphOS users?
Posted on 28-Oct-2011 6:57:08
#12 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1731
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

I can understand why today someone might choose OS4 instead of MorphOS, as there are many hardware choices now and OS4 has improved over the last two years to the point where there is less difference between MorphOS and OS4, than existed a few years ago.

My main question of this thread is why didn't more Amiga3.x users choose to migrate to MorphOS when it was the only viable choice for Next Gen Amiga systems.

I guess the answer is that many Amiga users were still not ready to migrate away from Classic hardware and AmigaOS3.x and by the time they decided to make the jump to any Next Gen Amiga system, OS4 was either available, or soon to be released.

As a MorphOS user, I was just curious as to why there were not more MorphOS users, specially within the USA, or North America.

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amigang 
Re: Why does there seem to be more OS4 users than MorphOS users?
Posted on 28-Oct-2011 6:58:16
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 2018
From: Cheshire, England

I dont know why but MorphOS never got my interest, I have used it at an Amiga show way back I think in 2002 or something like that, so I'm guessing it a lot better now, I found it be fun and simple amiga like experience but just didn't hold my interest.

If it came out for the X1000 (which I hope I can get) I would definitely get it, but MorphOS user/developers seem to just completely rule that out which is a shame, they seem to forget that their main market is Amiga enthusiast, I'm sure a lot of other OS4 users would welcome it, Trever would most likely love it (as it could boost X1000 sales) and help you sell more MorphOS license and gain maybe more users. Every One happy!

Now you could say why dont I rush out and buy a cheap Mac, well I dont really want three desktops set up on my desk, two is a struggle as it is (my PC, and sometime old Amiga at the moment, but will be replace with the X1000 or OS4 machine) and the fact that buying a second hand Mac just wasn't in my vision of how I would buy my next Amiga.

Aros on the other hand I'm very interested in, I need more time with it but got the AspireOS for the Acer Netbook and it is really neat, in fact I'm using it a lot to get back to grips with how Amiga OS all works, (emulation set up have spoil me, dam you Amikit! lol) but it great that it all works and really please that they did support the Acer Aspire, because I had one before I knew they where working on supporting it otherwise I might of not got to use Aros, because I never got it to work on my large PC, which is a shame, so it needs more work but if you get the right hardware for it, it can be pretty usable.

Any way, I have no problems with MorphOS crowd, I wish some developers of both OS4 and MorphOS camps could work together more to befit both OS. Good luck with your mission amigadave.

Last edited by amigang on 28-Oct-2011 at 07:02 AM.

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madtrekker 
Re: Why does there seem to be more OS4 users than MorphOS users?
Posted on 28-Oct-2011 7:00:48
#14 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 271
From: Unknown

@amigadave

Quote:
Anyone who says that AROS and MorphOS are not Amiga systems are only fooling themselves and not anyone else. All three systems, OS4, MorphOS and AROS were written using the Amiga API documentation. MorphOS and OS4 are PPC re-implementations of 68k AmigaOS3.x and share many of its ideas and functionality. AROS is the same, but probably an even more strict re-write of AmigaOS3.1 for multiple hardware platforms, including x86 and ARM. How can they be any less "Amiga" than OS4, except in name only. There is no original Amiga 68k code in OS4, as it is all rewritten for PPC, just like MorphOS is written for PPC, so this nonsense about the "Real" Amiga is foolish and a waste of time. Please don't pollute this thread with your opinions about what a "Real" Amiga is, or is not. It is not relevant to my questions.


I think you're in serious danger of whipping out the flame thrower yourself with that paragraph! I think a lot of people did wait for OS4 for because it was perceived as a direct successor to classic Amiga OS. You may dismiss that argument, but it clearly carries weight with others.

Also, there's a big difference between "written" and "rewritten". After all Commodore rewrote some of the code written by the original Amiga Inc after they took over development of the OS. Also, I seem to recall there are still a few bits of 68k code in there that cannot be replaced for various reasons.


As for myself, I'd been away from Amiga since the mid-nineties and lost track of where it was. I got back into it when, by chance, I stumbled across Amiga Active (the last mainstream Amiga magazine) in WH Smiths and decided to buy it. Amiga Active heavily covered Amiga Inc's plans for new Amigas and when Amiga OS4 was announced and later released I followed it with interest.

I really only found out about MorphOS through reading sites such as this one, as Amiga Active was very focussed (biased?) towards Amiga Inc. At the time the rivalry between the two camps was very bitter.

TBH, I doubt I would have been interested in MorphOS anyway, as it didn't have the perception of being a continuation of Amiga OS that OS4 had (or the backing of the owners of the Amiga name - back before they turned their reputation to mud), but some of the things that were said at the time were also a significant deterrent to anyone who was waiting patiently for Amiga OS4, because when those kind of insults are being chucked between the sides it tends to naturally polarise opinions.

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Jupp3 
Re: Why does there seem to be more OS4 users than MorphOS users?
Posted on 28-Oct-2011 7:01:15
#15 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1225
From: Unknown

@Toaks

Quote:
That said, bbrv was the final nail in my coffin as with many others(for not chosing morphos).

There are also some people who avoid "everything Amiga" thanks to Bill McEwen & co.

It's funny how sometimes people not really (directly) involved with the OS (at least anymore) manage to turn people away from it...

Quote:
ps:2 very close friends here where i live use MorphOS, great guys but when i ask them why do you use MorphOS they just say, because i do... no particular reason really.

Did you ask "Why do you use..." or "Why do you use instead of AmigaOS4"? - It can be hard to justify using either to anyone. Of course, luckily no-one really has to - free world and all

Last edited by Jupp3 on 28-Oct-2011 at 07:04 AM.

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pavlor 
Re: Why does there seem to be more OS4 users than MorphOS users?
Posted on 28-Oct-2011 7:03:33
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9578
From: Unknown

@amigadave

Quote:
My main question of this thread is why didn't more Amiga3.x users choose to migrate to MorphOS when it was the only viable choice for Next Gen Amiga systems.


If you read carefuly "classic" centered forums (eg. eab.abime.net), you will see some comments like "real Amiga has 68k", "PowerPC is not Amiga", "only AmigaOS is OS3" etc. For many members of our community is "NG" still something alien. That is probably one of the reasons why Hyperion released 4.1 for "Classic" - an invitation for the users with powerful classic hardware to the NG world.

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drHirudo 
Re: Why does there seem to be more OS4 users than MorphOS users?
Posted on 28-Oct-2011 7:06:49
#17 ]
Super Member
Joined: 26-Apr-2004
Posts: 1113
From: Sofia

@amigadave

Simple answer - because the latest version of AmigaOS 4 runs on classic Amiga hardware.
The MorphOS team washed their hands out of the Amiga community years ago and now they want to move the Amigans to Apple hardware. I think the classic Amiga users who spent thousands on their hardware are more comfortable with AmigaOS 4. As always stated, the classic Amiga crowd is the biggest of them all, no wonder there are more AmigaOS 4 users than MorphOS users.

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xeron 
Re: Why does there seem to be more OS4 users than MorphOS users?
Posted on 28-Oct-2011 7:18:34
#18 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2003
Posts: 2440
From: Weston-Super-Mare, Somerset, England, UK, Europe, Earth, The Milky Way, The Universe

I bought an amigaone in 2003 and that was that. I remember some people on irc being really nasty to me for not getting a pegasos; people that I spoke to regularly before that. That kind of put me off morphos.

I did later get a pegasos to try morphos out (it was not yet available on macs), and I liked it a lot, but I had to sell some computers for financial reasons, and I just didn't use mos as much as os4, so the peg was sold.

Edit: Oh, and btw, I don't agree that OS4 is only just recently good enough to be considered an alternative to MorphOS, this was around 5 years ago that I bought a MorphOS machine, and it didn't convert me from OS4. It was nice, but I just liked OS4 more, so I sold the MOS machine when I needed the cash.

Last edited by xeron on 28-Oct-2011 at 07:48 AM.

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amigadave 
Re: Why does there seem to be more OS4 users than MorphOS users?
Posted on 28-Oct-2011 7:19:32
#19 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1731
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@pavlor

Of course AROS and MorphOS can show the same connection to the original AmigaOS. In fact, they have a longer connection to AmigaOS that OS4 does. Many of the developers that created the work in AmigaOS3.5 and 3.9 are still working on AROS or MorphOS, or both, and not working for Hyperion. They could make the same kind of video as the one you provided a link for, except the branch of AmigaOS that came after Hyperion started working on OS4 would be replaced with the work that the AROS, or MorphOS developers have done since 1994 and the fall of Commodore.

That video does not mean that Hyperion's work is any more authentic, or real than the work on AROS or MorphOS was that preceded the work of OS4. The only thing that OS4 has that the other two do not, is the name AmigaOS, that Hyperion was successful in wrenching away from Amiga Inc. at considerable cost and effort.

Again, this is off topic and has little to do with my questions regarding why there are more OS4 users than MorphOS users, particularly in North America.

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Kronos 
Re: Why does there seem to be more OS4 users than MorphOS users?
Posted on 28-Oct-2011 7:25:52
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2553
From: Unknown

@Toaks

Quote:

Toaks wrote:

That said, bbrv was the final nail in my coffin as with many others(for not chosing morphos).


Don't worry, there are atleast that many people who can say the same about Ben Hermans and OS4.

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