@Antique
seems the only thing worth discussing in so called amiga community today are flame threads. so nice job heating this one up for me.

so first of all, i agree almost completely with kas1e as usual.
especially on the usage of "stupid" or "stoopid" here. the amount of rediculous claims, wishes, dreams and demands whatsoever would cause some good laugh everywhere else. mostly any argument here can be contered with "one can dream" or similar. if there is no fact to discuss users wishes and dreams are presented as such. as if dreaming were some sort of developer activity.

what concerns support of third party programs. as kas1e writes, the essential ones included into official distribution should be declared compatibility testcases. if they break, it should be well considered decision in favour of some neccessary feature, not an ordinary fault. blaming it on original developers, who left the scene is certainly an outright example of bad manners not any sence of humor, however weird.
hint: if the last update apparently broke it, what has been updated last: ibrowse or os4??

@all

You can configure the Ambient windows in several ways. I find Ambient even more usefull than OSX Finder and Windows Explorer. Its soo easy to browse any partition or device. If I connect a USB stick, MorphOS detects it at once and I can browse it. Same with any USB disks. Also! Its so convenient to be able to search directly and by clicking the mousewheel you can edit any file without needing any rename box. Its even easier than in Windows or OSX where you dont really know if its going to let you rename directly or if it opens the file ;)

For me, MorphOS is my main computer at home. I use it everyday. Even my netbank can be used with the OWB version for MorphOS! Here are some examples on how Ambient can be changed with its window prefs with Icons/lister switching. You can also turn off the browser mode in Ambient prefs!:









You could really think that Ambient is sort of Dopus Magellan Light in many ways. For me, I jumped from using AmigaOS 3.9 with Dopus Magellan 5.82 to MorphOS and found it very usefull. For me is double-click on desktop to get any lister up quite important for choosing my OS. Sometimes I don't want to click on a icon, but just anywhere to get a lister. Then getting up 2 listers is very easy and a very fast way to copy or selecting files or icons. I like my system to be fast and thats what I get from Ambient. I would never go back to Workbench and its List mode. Atleast install Dopus Magellan 5.82 on your AmigaOS4 setup! Its soo biig difference.

Use whatever you want, but just know that AmigaOS4 and MorphOS are different, but they are the same when it comes to "the Amiga feeling". I want the Amiga Notebook and hopes for it to be released. Just choose what you need and I say both AmigaOS4 and MorphOS are both great, just dont underestimate MorphOS. It is sort of AmigaOS 3.x with MUI, with Dopus Magellan and other enhancements while AmigaOS 4 is AmigaOS 3.9 with enhancements. Its about choice you do. Let us welcome outsiders to this community with choices. Thank You.

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@kas1e


you should read the Jante law

Definition

There are ten different rules in the law as defined by Sandemose, all expressive of variations on a single theme and are usually referred to as a homogeneous unit: Don't think you're anyone special or that you're better than us.

ten rules state:
Don't think you're anything special.
Don't think you're as good as us.
Don't think you're smarter than us.
Don't convince yourself that you're better than us.
Don't think you know more than us.
Don't think you are more important than us.
Don't think you are good at anything.
Don't laugh at us.
Don't think anyone cares about you.
Don't think you can teach us anything.
An eleventh rule recognized in the novel is:
11. Don't think that there aren't a few things we know about you.
In the book, the Janters who transgress this unwritten 'law' are regarded with suspicion and some hostility, as it goes against communal desire in the town to preserve harmony, social stability and uniformity.

@wawa
ah and besides, kas1e way to articulate, language barrier considered or not, he speaks just openly. i dont recall any statement from him i could regard really insulting. quite contrary to others, even if i dont pay much attention to it, frankly.

just the opposite, he is rather open, helpful, but energetic and stimulating personality here. not much left of a kind.

@eliyahu

Quote:

so long as windows are closed, no problems.

It's a step better than that as any window that is a reaction window, will auto close and reopen after the prefs have changed. That includes amidock, and apps like Filer. However if some program has a lock on workbench, this prevents the screen closure, and reboot is needed.

Last edited by broadblues on 29-Oct-2011 at 12:16 AM.

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@wawa

Quote:

hint: if the last update apparently broke it, what has been updated last: ibrowse or os4??

I don't know what the iBrowse issue is, but AWeb broke badly after an os4 update, (not a recent one) and it was AWeb fault, not OS4. I know cause I fixed it. Bugs in application can be revelaed by changes in the system.

Last edited by broadblues on 29-Oct-2011 at 12:15 AM.

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@eder

sounds rather than a guide to blackmail. at least that another rule:
Quote:

11. Don't think that there aren't a few things we know about you.

the rest amouts to:
Quote:

Don't think [...]

funny enough by itself. but free and realistic transcription would be as follows:
think what you think, but just shut up and never admit it openly..


am i right or am i right?

@wawa

Did not say anything about following it ...

@broadblues

i know that process from aros68k development.
there is an amount of bugs introduced by third party programmers assumptions or them plainly taking advantage of bugs and undocumented features.

yet the whole concern of toni and jason is to provide possibly full backward compatibility along with future proven design, and it nicely coming along, as it seems. even just now toni has implemented cache clear method that may not be compatible with the originaly used on aos, yet better performing. time will show how this impacts compatibility. it may be reverted just in case.

@stupidfucks

Please just stop this embarrassing kindergarden level discussion. You all come out as fools. Make your choice, be it aos4 or mos, or perhaps both, and then enjoy it and respect the choice of others and let them enjoy their thing. I am blushing when i read this thread. Grow up for ####s sake. :(

edit: spelling

Last edited by spotUP on 29-Oct-2011 at 12:27 AM.

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@eder

Quote:

ten rules state: [...] Don't think you're as good as us. [...] Don't think you are good at anything. [...] Don't think anyone cares about you. Don't think you can teach us anything.

I am sure such rules make for a society which outsiders enjoy visiting and interacting with, and which welcomes and embraces new ideas rapidly. Trade will flourish, and the resulting rush of innovations will obviously lead to such a society becoming a shining beacon of progressive enlightenment for those around it who have not yet seen the wisdom of the ten rules.

@broadblues

besides for what i know aweb is just abandoned, lets be frank, nobody apparently cares about it. i spent a lot of time testing stuff on original amigas, and learned that the real hardware is the best testing environment for 68k apps. uae isnt going to replace, for all the bugs admittedly. winuae is just too forgiving and does not emulate failures close enough.
clear: im not asking to drag this broken stuff along to an ng platform. just stay compatible with what you drag along, or throw it away.

Last edited by wawa on 29-Oct-2011 at 12:25 AM.

@spotUP

Classy

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@wawa

Quote:

besides for what i know aweb is just abandoned, lets be frank, nobody apparently cares about it.

I still have full source archived here. However AWeb is mature, there nothing much to be done with it. It's lost it's project hosting, and non of the option I had proved easy, licenseing restrictions on public hosting etc.

AWeb is not really abandonned but it is what it is, a fast html4.01 compliant browser. It's not practivle to bolt on newer tecnologies such as CSS, and projects like OWB and Timberwolf make it pointles to try (especially given my time).

AWeb as a project was alway cross platform, and all developers cooperated, in a friendly way. Wish we could all get along as well on other projects / aspects of our shared core.

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@broadblues

yes, aweb it is a html 4 browser, which is obviously out of demand even on whatever amiga flavour there is. heck, there is ibrowse, so..
sure, would be nice to have it on cross platform here, maintained and updated to support todays standards (well, its not us to dictate them alas, the web does).
but it is simply not the case. besides it is slow and cumbersome even in comparison to netsurf 68k. sorry to say that with all effort tha went into it.

@thread,

Well, that took me a long time to read through every response to this thread. It went off topic much less than I thought it would when I saw that there were 10 pages of replies. There was also much less flaming in the responses than I thought there might be, which is a very good thing. Maybe there is some hope for this community to have a future.

Very few (almost none) of the responders understood my intention, or my questions, so I did not get many answers that I was looking for. I am not complaining though. I am thankful that my asbestos suit was not in great demand.

Just to repeat my question, or the main question; why are there not more MorphOS users than OS4 users when for a while, before OS4 was available, or when it was first released, MorphOS had a clear lead in performance and features.

A few people did provide answers that were relevant to the time period that the question is aimed at, but most did not. It is not really important, but I was curious about the possible answers. I even suggested a couple of answers myself.

I would like to take the opportunity to express an observation I have made in this thread that seems to have eluded a few people. When MorphOS users or developers (like Fab and others) try to point out features within MorphOS in response to misconceptions some OS4 users have about differences between OS4 and MorphOS, it clearly looks like educational information to me and not an attempt to sell MorphOS to anyone, or to try to convert OS4 users to MorphOS.

It is clear to me that most OS4 users that have tried MorphOS, have not used it enough to learn how similar it can be to OS4. The same is probably true of any MorphOS users that have used OS4. When a OS4 user says he prefers OS4 over MorphOS because of feature XYZ and that feature has already been available in MorphOS for years, it is only natural for experienced MorphOS users or developers to want to correct that misconception, and does not have to be seen as a threat, or attack on OS4.

I got the opportunity to run OS4 on Steve Solie's X1000 at the AmiWest 2011 Show last weekend. Although I did not get to use it long enough to compare it fully to my own MorphOS systems, it was clearly more like MorphOS than any other OS I have used. I see a lot of MorphOS users trying to explain to OS4 (and to a lesser extent, OS3.x) users how MorphOS is, or can be very similar to their user experience. MorphOS is a nice system, and so is OS4. As this thread is proof of, the strong feelings that separate the two are still alive and well, but there are some of us that try to move each closer together and speak of cooperation, at least on the level of third party developers. It is unlikely that the two development teams will ever be able to forget the past and work together, but at least some of the users and third party software developers can choose to forget the past and work together in the future.

I have my own strong feelings and opinions, but I try to keep them moderated and accept all flavors of the Amiga experience and the users who enjoy them. I am less tolerant of the closed minded few users that intentionally try to perpetuate the divide in our community, so I hope that none of you consider me to be one of those who wants division.

Last edited by amigadave on 29-Oct-2011 at 01:05 AM.

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who the hell cares as long as you are enjoying your chosen platform really

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@amigadave

admittedly i have not tried mos. i downloaded 1.4 iso, to install on my a4k to check it out as long as it has been available. but installation hasnt been as straightforward as i thought and i wasnt motivated enough to dig into it. i think it was after i made my experience with nos4 on same machine and didnt expected much in therms what i personally needed at the time. i admit that some name following issues might contribute to it i have never put enough effort into mos. but im just applying occams razor to anything amiga since some time. therefore aros. i dont need to buy any gadgets there.

Quote:

amigadave wrote: @thread, ...I got the opportunity to run OS4 on Steve Solie's X1000 at the AmiWest 2011 Show last weekend. Although I did not get to use it long enough to compare it fully to my own MorphOS systems, it was clearly more like MorphOS than any other OS I have used. ...

ahh yes MOS was inspired by AmigaOS so therefore I would hope it would be some what similar to AmigaOS

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! My Master Miggies- Amiga 1000 & AmigaOne X1000 !
mancave-ramblings
X1000 I BELIEVE

@amigadave

Quote:

When a OS4 user says he prefers OS4 over MorphOS because of feature XYZ and that feature has already been available in MorphOS for years, it is only natural for experienced MorphOS users or developers to want to correct that misconception, and does not have to be seen as a threat, or attack on OS4.

In my experience and understanding this generally just means someone has tried to "conjure up" a reason or too "on the spot" to explain why one prefers something...

Usually the actual reasons run alot deeper or are more meaningful but can be lost to the actual individual themselves...

I have been an AmigaOS user since day one and I will die an AmigaOS user, there is nothing that can sway me elsewhere and I believe it is pointless having a bit of everything especially when the latter is trying to be a carbon copy, life is very simple and one should just go with what makes them happy...

Last edited by Slayer on 29-Oct-2011 at 05:21 AM.

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