@amigadave

Quote:

Very few (almost none) of the responders understood my intention, or my questions, so I did not get many answers that I was looking for.

I think you did, maybe you missed the real answers in all the noise. Classic users don't consider morphos or os4 hardware as real Amigas, others wanted faster hardware without the learning curve of a new OS & to support new hardware/a-eon/Hyperion.

I, for one, never used a Mac or understood which ones worked with morphos, other then it had to be a ppc version. Now maybe if morphos ran on current AmigaOne h/w, I might look at it, but I doubt that will ever happen anytime soon.

I don't know of any other answer you could be looking for other then the above.

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@amigadave

I'm a Morphos user and have been for a long time during the whole war thing between the camps.

I chose MOS simply because the Peg 2 was vastly superior to the other hardware and because all the 68k apps I ran back in the day ran perfectly under MOS.

I never used or saw AOS, but I have been perfectly happy with MOS and it's development.

@sundown

Excuse the obvious OT onslaught which follows

Quote:

Classic users don't consider os4 hardware as real Amigas

This is a real sore point for me (not sure why but it really gets UP my nose)

I actually believe this is a self induced acceptance encouraged by this self identified faction simply to enable them to draw a line in the dirt - a controlled perception if you like, gives it a logic and and a set of rules which they reason from. In short it enables them to denounce any New Amiga HW which keeps there spending on there 'hobby' in check.

Now us Amiga Users who live in the real world of AmigaOS know that if commodore (or any of the companies who purcased the assests/rights etc) had continued to make Amiga HW (and you'd be lying to yourself if you didn't sit in this exact seat agreeing and wanting New Amiga HW during these stages) eventually all the chips would have been phased out and replaced etc with whatever was coming out, there would have been a certain loyalty to continue a custom chip design (for sure) but the AmigaOS HW would have _evolved_ no doubt about it!

I am a AmigaOS User from 1985, I have many older Amiga machines, I've never owned or used anything else at home and this gives me some right to speak and declare in my opinion that the X1000 is clearly a continuation of the AmigaOS spirit and essence and carries with it the belonging and fundamentals we wanted and felt back in the day - it felt good to be an AmigaOS user when not many had one and it feels exactly the same now as I type this on my X1000!

btw, quite a few "classic users" weren't even born when the Amiga came out, which makes me both laugh and also question there right to speak on such manners - it makes me label them more emulation freaks and gamers than genuine Amiga Users

That's me today

edit: I meant to add that if you started out an AmigaOS user and then for whatever reason you moved on to another platform because of the inactivity with AmigaOS but continued to tinker with your Amiga then I can understand that you ended it there. What I can't tolerate is people who are in this position but condemn the newer Amiga HW in posts etc I have news for you that this is NOT your ride anymore nor is it YOUR interest so why comment on it? This is where peoples underlying bitterness enters the picture, for god only knows what reasons, and this is where the material comes from in my above statements.

Your AmigaOS lies in the past but mine doesn't, I just don't get this human species

Last edited by Slayer on 29-Oct-2011 at 06:19 AM.
Last edited by Slayer on 29-Oct-2011 at 05:54 AM.

_________________
~Yes I am a Kiwi, No, I did not appear as an extra in 'Lord of the Rings'~
1x AmigaOne X5000 2.0GHz 2gM RadeonR9280X AOS4.x
3x AmigaOne X1000 1.8GHz 2gM RadeonHD7970 AOS4.x

I have been a user since 85 as well and had at least 12 different classic machines.

When I was a teenager it was great to be into the Amiga. Lot of club activity, and being ahead of the competition was a great feeling.

I don't get emotional about the boxes, it just business for me these days.

I bought my peg to emulate 3.x so I could run all my productivity apps, never got into the flame wars. I really don't care about the other amiga systems including linux and macs, I don't have the time... Not a teenager anymore.

I will say, as I said on Amiga.org, that it is great to see Trevor create and sell the x1000 and I think his price is reasonable. I wish him luck and fun in his endeavor.

I don't view any system as a continuation of the classics, all just emulate it to different degrees to me.

The 80's are over, Commodore destroyed the Amiga, and now we all can enjoy whatever system we wish to...

Cheers...

@Slayer

Quote:

the X1000 is clearly a continuation of the AmigaOS spirit and essence and carries with it the belonging and fundamentals we wanted and felt back in the day -

A piece of HW is "clearly the spirit an essence" of a piece of SW ??? ;)
Actually the X1000 is everything NOT "the spirit an essence" of Amiga. Amiga was about "power without the price not the other way round.

If real Amigas were still around these days the would either be:
- x86 just like Macs only without the Apple tax (and running an OS completly different to 1.x-3.x, the QNX idea of GateWay was probraly the closest to a real Amiga-continuation we ever got)
- something like a PS3,XBox or Wii with added productivity layer

Quote:

it felt good to be an AmigaOS user when not many had one and it feels exactly the same now as I type this on my X1000!

Ah, a Jonny-came-late When I bought an Amiga, I bought it cos it was the best computer I could afford, I bought it cos it had all the best games of the times.
And offcourse I bought it cos everyone else had one which meant I could "get" those games real cheap


But thats all irelevant, C= went bust, and so did Escom. Noone did continue building Amiga past AGA and current offerings are as farer removed from it as a Not-C=USA C64 from a real one....


One could offcourse build an argument based on the fact that C= managment had a tendancy to waste resources on brainddead HW-projects (all 8bits after C64, CDTV, A600 castrated A4000 instead of A3000+, the "proffesional" PC line) and earlier also to overcharge for "topend" Amigas like the A2000 (which was just an A500 in a huge case + some slots) or the A3000 (68030 was o.k. but updating an A2000 to A3000 specs was much cheaper), not so sure thats the angle you wanted to go on with

_________________
- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

@Matt3k

You fall into that other category that I mentioned except you go as far to say most systems just emulate to whatever end which is incorrect and that the commodore destroyed the Amiga but again it only centers on the Amiga machines of that time, you come close to stepping over that other line...

This is the perception that killed AmigaOS for you and many others like you, at least you're not forcing anything down anyones throat

I continued on using my Amiga every day despite the situation, maybe I'm just very different I don't know, maybe I'm just very stubborn, maybe I knew something you didn't LOL I doubt it... maybe I got lucky?

I'm just glad I'm in my good head space enjoying my Amiga as always, nothings changed for me...

It's way cool

_________________
~Yes I am a Kiwi, No, I did not appear as an extra in 'Lord of the Rings'~
1x AmigaOne X5000 2.0GHz 2gM RadeonR9280X AOS4.x
3x AmigaOne X1000 1.8GHz 2gM RadeonHD7970 AOS4.x

@Slayer

I look at it that the original company collapsed and was destroying the Amiga regardless. I think every camp can claim to be the real successor (MOS had the phase V connection and better emulates 3.x, Natami has the chipset, AOS has the name and feel of the classics, and Winuae uses the original roms).

I really glad you enjoy the Amiga and that you have a X1000, I think that is really cool and that you enjoy it daily is even better.

I look at my 3k's, Peg2, and PC as appliances that get stuff done for me. I honestly would love to tinker with my 3k, like a classic car to mod I guess. But for me my fun was in the 80's as much for the people as the box itself.

Now I have much more pressing things and I'm lucky to check email once a day on the peg.

Congrats to you on your enthusiasm... Enjoy...

Last edited by Matt3k on 29-Oct-2011 at 06:43 AM.

@Slayer

Quote:

Now us Amiga Users who live in the real world of AmigaOS know that if commodore (or any of the companies who purcased the assests/rights etc) had continued to make Amiga HW (and you'd be lying to yourself if you didn't sit in this exact seat agreeing and wanting New Amiga HW during these stages) eventually all the chips would have been phased out and replaced etc with whatever was coming out, there would have been a certain loyalty to continue a custom chip design (for sure) but the AmigaOS HW would have _

I agree, but it would have been acceptable to a certain extent if it was done by Commodore only.

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@Kronos

Quote:

A piece of HW is "clearly the spirit an essence" of a piece of SW ??? ;)

The thing is if you don't feel this way then you're just a computer user, but don't worry because that is generally what most people feel about there computers.

Quote:

Actually the X1000 is everything NOT "the spirit an essence" of Amiga. Amiga was about "power without the price not the other way round.

When I looked at the Amiga price didn't even enter my mind, I simply wanted to start using a computer and this was the latest thing; I spent $3,500.00 on my first setup.

Quote:

Ah, a Jonny-came-late When I bought an Amiga, I bought it cos it was the best computer I could afford, I bought it cos it had all the best games of the times. And offcourse I bought it cos everyone else had one which meant I could "get" those games real cheap

Perhaps the difference lies in the mind of those who brought Amigas. I played a few games for sure but my real interest lay in the OS itself, I used to live in DOS, I used multimedia software and raytracing software, I began to collect source code and began to compile, I haven't played games on the Amiga for many many years. But I do intend to look at some new ones. I brought most of my games, another significant difference LOL although I used to spend thousands of dollars on tolls bringing in warez, mostly professional software though that I later brought as well... I believed in trying before buying...

_________________
~Yes I am a Kiwi, No, I did not appear as an extra in 'Lord of the Rings'~
1x AmigaOne X5000 2.0GHz 2gM RadeonR9280X AOS4.x
3x AmigaOne X1000 1.8GHz 2gM RadeonHD7970 AOS4.x

@amigadave

i think with the amount of a1 dying, and people becoming more an more impatient in the face of delays and high prices there will be more morphos users than os4 users by early next year. You can't argue with a 30 dollar mac mini or a powebook. its awesome hardware. Of course as someone pointed out mos users don't fantisize about pipe dreams and wild promises so will always be less visible than the name fetish dancing banana brigiade.

of course the os4 community will always have a far bigger slice of those blinkered evangelists, who treat their computer os as a religion, first cheering amiga inc and now hyperion, who have no clue about technical issues but attack developers who create software for their os and point out its flaws, Who have no clue about technical issues but ramble on about the wonderfull smp/xmos/etc future revelution of os4. Who lap up every optimistic announcement and take it as gospel and then compare that to released, working solutions.

As others have pointed out i don't think morphos devs want these type of people using their os, nor probably would any other rational computer community in the world.

Last edited by cheesegrate on 29-Oct-2011 at 07:49 AM.
Last edited by cheesegrate on 29-Oct-2011 at 07:47 AM.
Last edited by cheesegrate on 29-Oct-2011 at 07:42 AM.

_________________
"ICE CREAM, ICE CREAM!" - Speedball 2.

"Look behind you, a three-headed monkey!" - Monkey Island

@amigadave

Without having read the whole thread (only the first page), here's my subjective answer:

I believe that OS4 has more users in general.

This is because (IMO), MorphOS is designed mainly for newer ages of amigans (which are less of the total number of Amigans in general, say, less than 35-38 years old) and more appealing to the classic users that couldn't live without a strong file manager, MUI and other NG stuff by the end of the classic era.

I get this feeling by talking to many of my amigan friends. They aren't interested in the politics between platforms at all. They just see OS4.x as the true AmigaOS continuation because, honestly, it looks and feels like the original, just more polished, more advanced but founded even on the same limitations the original did. For example, to them, it's normal to still have WB without navigational buttons. They don't really care if Quake 2 or other archaic games run on 20fps in 2011 (most even don't play games at all). Most want to run the same software package (e.g. Wordworth) they had in 3.x but faster and on a better looking wb or playback some ancient movie they had on their 1200 HD and couldn't by that time. That's it, that's their needs. Having a preview of an avi embedded on wb lister would seem to them as "alien".

IMHO, even the devs have different opinions/approaches on the same subjects (like the ones described above). Take as an example Games/Browser and WB/Ambient. Most seemed happy with RAOWB even though it looked like a mobile phone's browser (without having a proper GUI). Other devs would say to you or imply that low fps don't matter since they are already doubled than the ones you would get on a classic/ppc Amiga.

The outcome, IMHO, are two different and fully distinctive products.

_________________

@cheesegrate

And I think with the amount of Macs dying and the low prices of Macs nobody will take the Operating system serious. And so on .. Talk is Cheap

@Kronos

Quote:

Kronos wrote: Actually the X1000 is everything NOT "the spirit an essence" of Amiga. Amiga was about "power without the price not the other way round.

Um I don't know what C= Amigas cost in Europe back in the day but for me back in the 80's and 90's they were easily more expensive than a IBM Compatible and so was the software and expansion hardware.

So your formula for what an Amiga is "Amiga was about "power without the price not the other way round." is not really accurate from my experience.

So as I see it from your formula the opposite is true and therefore the X1000 is every bit expensive hardware so it must be Amiga after all

_________________
Amiga A1200T - TF1260 - R9200 - Indivision AGA MK3
Amiga A500 - PiStorm EMU68
Pegasos 2 G4 - AmigaOS 4.1 FE / MorphOS 3.16

@Fairdinkem

Amiga == Amiga500 (made up over 90% of all units sold) and yes that has allways been cheaper than a comparable PC (if you wanted to play games, have sound and colors that is).

_________________
- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

@Kronos

Quote:

Amiga == Amiga500 (made up over 90% of all units sold) and yes that has allways been cheaper than a comparable PC (if you wanted to play games, have sound and colors that is).

LIke the post above this one speaking of costs

I brought an A500 at the end of 1985 (or was it very early 1986 hmmm) and it cost

$1,000.00 for the monitor 1084S
$1,500.00 for the actual A500
$500.00 Half Meg Expansion
$500.00 External Disk Drive

I'm not sure what a 286 or a 386 cost but I don't think they were that expensive?

In the New Zealand market I suppose the Amiga brand was expensive, it was always very expensive for me and I brought and upgraded many systems back in the day... of course I never thought of it as expensive I just did the maths (I need x amount to have y)

So you see one X1000 system cost me LESS than that A500 system cost me... a bloody good bargin if you ask me!

People get obsessed with what they can get for there dollar today but why? I get paid more money than I used to when I brought that A500 so what's the problem? LOL

Last edited by Slayer on 29-Oct-2011 at 09:54 AM.

_________________
~Yes I am a Kiwi, No, I did not appear as an extra in 'Lord of the Rings'~
1x AmigaOne X5000 2.0GHz 2gM RadeonR9280X AOS4.x
3x AmigaOne X1000 1.8GHz 2gM RadeonHD7970 AOS4.x

@Slayer

a) there was no A500 in 1985
b) there was no A500 in 1986
c) when the A500 was introduced in 87 it was 1400DM (700Euro)
d) 1400DM just bought you something like a Schneider (Amstrad?) EuroPC
e) both had very little RAM, 1 floppy and no monitor or HD included
f) to compete with an 68000@7MHz you would have needed a basic 286 ( >3000DM)
g) to compete with Agnus,Denise&Paule you would have needed a highend workstation (>10000DM)

Power without the price !

_________________
- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

@cheesegrate

It doesnt count what the mos developers wants or thinks. There will always be freaks/trolls/nonTechGuys/whatever in both camps. The same on all systems.

@Fairdinkem

Quote:

I don't know what C= Amigas cost in Europe back in the day but for me back in the 80's and 90's they were easily more expensive than a IBM Compatible and so was the software and expansion hardware.

I guess that they were more powerful than IBM Compatible PCs. C= Amigas were also mass produced. Can't say that about any other Amiga OS4 supported HW.

Quote:

"Amiga was about "power without the price not the other way round." is not really accurate from my experience.

Quote:

the X1000 is every bit expensive hardware

X1000 - Price without the power!

Limited production HW is just very expensive. I wouldn't buy such thing anymore.

Back to the topic.

Long story short. In early 90s i was using A500 almost only for games. I got A1200 in 2005 for free. Expanded it a bit (040/40), WB was nothing more than app launcher , switched quickly to Dopus4. Same year i realised that expaning this A1200 is pointless, much money and still not powerful, so i started to look for some HW, A1 was very pricey, i found some MorphOS screenshots which reminded me my AmigaOS config, so i purchased a Peg2 G3 and became a MorphOS user.

Quote:

Why does there seem to be more OS4 users than MorphOS users?

Well, i don't care much about that. They have what they want. AmigaOS/AROS/MorphOS user base is very low compared to Windows, Mac OS X or Linux, and this will not change :(.

Last edited by Korni on 29-Oct-2011 at 10:56 AM.
Last edited by Korni on 29-Oct-2011 at 10:53 AM.

@Fairdinkem

Quote:

Um I don't know what C= Amigas cost in Europe back in the day but for me back in the 80's and 90's they were easily more expensive than a IBM Compatible and so was the software and expansion hardware.

Um, perhaps we live in different worlds?

@Kronos

The A1000 cost way more than any Home Personal Computer you could buy at the time. If you wanted games you went to an Arcade or used a console, if you wanted to be productive you used a IBM or an Apple.

The Amiga 500 wasn't as cheap as a IBM 286 Compatible here, my friends 286 with a sound blaster, graphics card and VGA monitor was whole lot cheaper than my A500 with GVP 52 mb SCSI Hard Drive and 3mb memory upgrade with 1084 monitor.

The games he had on his 286 were some ports from Amiga and some games I wish we had so power versus dollar is not really valid.

And again my A1200 with DKB Cobra 030 @ 40MHZ with extra memory and 1084s was still not as cheap as my friends IBM 386 with sound blaster and graphics card with VGA Monitor.

Again he had games that were ported from Amiga and games I wish we had which did eventuate and I gotta say the PC version was superior for example Wing Commander.

At the end of the day I don't care now and I didn't care then I preferred Amiga over IBM and I more importantly preferred the Amiga operating system over Windows.

_________________
Amiga A1200T - TF1260 - R9200 - Indivision AGA MK3
Amiga A500 - PiStorm EMU68
Pegasos 2 G4 - AmigaOS 4.1 FE / MorphOS 3.16