@g_kraszewski
Quote:

g_kraszewski wrote: In fact I can do nothing on NatAmi now, as it only exists as two (correct me if I'm wrong in the quantity) prototypes.

6 Natami boards are currently with developers, not 2. You can keep track of the latest Natami announcements on the blog (though the Natami forum is updated more frequently of course):
http://www.natami.net/blog/

@kas1e

one point for you (it is announced for the future). But for me the Natami will be a second machine so that is not a real problem for me (all Amiga-Browsers are missing parts and Plugins)

@amigadave

I would say it's because OS4 is the 'real' Amiga OS all others (Morph OS, Aros etc.) are just Amiga like, not the real thing!

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@sicky

i do not understand that sentence...

@OlafS25
Quote:

Netsurf 2.8 that is the standard now

You're kidding, aren't you? See my sig., the Axxx-part. That's "Classic", not some UAE-Stuff or NatAmi prototypes. Even with 50MHz/060 it's more or less useless.

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@cha05e90

When you define "Classic" as the old hardware - 1994 where do you put Natami or UAE?

Last edited by OlafS25 on 28-Oct-2011 at 02:01 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 28-Oct-2011 at 02:00 PM.

@kas1e

Once 3.0 is out MorphOS team should consider an advert is some Mac magazine - I mean, what's the easiest way to reach Mac hardware owners and telling them their old kit is not useless.

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@Zylesea

Haha, are you serious. The Mac magazines don't cover PPC Mac since ages. Most of the Apple fans switched to X86 hardware years ago and sold their old kit.

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@drHirudo

Yeah sure, and guess to whom ???


Right, other "Apple fans"

Still not sure wether such a campaign would be worth the money....

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@Kronos

Quote:

Right, other "Apple fans"

The correct answer in Amiga oriented world would be - to Amiga fans who wanted to run MorphOS on it.

Too bad we are not in Amiga oriented world.

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@Kronos

Quote:

MorphOS-team never charged for updating it to fix the most obvious bugs

Yeah, well. . .

I've paid to go from OS4 to OS4.1. Beside that, I think I've had 7 updates that were NOT paid for with OS4-OS4.1.

So to get back on topic even a little. . . I don't think that's why epople chose one or the other system back in 2002-2003.

Paul

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@Zylesea

Quote:

Zylesea wrote: @kas1e Once 3.0 is out MorphOS team should consider an advert is some Mac magazine - I mean, what's the easiest way to reach Mac hardware owners and telling them their old kit is not useless.

Best suggestion I have heard in a long time.

_________________
Power Mac G4 "Quicksilver 2002"
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MorphOS 2.7 (Registered)
$225 total spent!

@polka.

Quote:

But once a user went that route, it is quite likely that he/she continues this path even if the reasons for that are not always purely logical. Be it OS4 or MorphOS, a user quickly becomes acquainted with the community of that OS and mainly looks on the strong points, not the weaknesses of the OS. It is simply hard to stay completely rational with something as freaky and illogical like still using an Amigaoid OS these days... Necessarily, there must be a lot of dedication and fanatism (in a positive way!) involved.

That desered a repeat in the quote here.

This might be a first! I find myself agreeing with and appreciating what polka. wrote.

Paul

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@redrumloa

there is a cheaper way... there are certainly a lot of Mac-Communities in the web. Make Youtube-Videos showing MorphOS in action, descriptions, Screenshots etc. and make that public in the Mac-Community.

@Geennaam

Quote:

I like what you did/do for AOS4, but with with all that bitterness in your comments above, isnt' it time for you to move on to a different platform and leave the past behind? Maybe take a break and check back again in a few years from now?

For sure i will do that when i will understand that there is no any kind of hope to change the things. And also when i will understand , that aos4 users want to be in some luna-world, where everyone happy, fear bittering, fear problems, fear harsh words, and want only see that everyting "just fine" , "perfect", "good work!", "amazing" and whatever.

You of course free to have picture-of-amiga-world, where everything "just fine". And be in hope for "soon", "2 more weeks", "when is done", "almost done" , "in betatesting". You of course free to "protect" the things which shouldn't be protected at all, they should be changed and fixed.

If problem is present, who in clear mind will say that "for me its just perfect", "its amiga feel", "i like when i not have that and that". If someone bittering, then there is reassons for. If someone have logic (i not mean amiga-logic), then better change nothing, and just "choice another platform", right ? If something suck, then its just suck, and nothing to do with it, and does not matter how to say that.

But well.. Only amiga (os4, morphos, aros, choice what you like) make it possible, right ?:) Boingball, aros-kity, butterfly and all the other sectant's attributes :)

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@OlafS25
Quote:

one point for you (it is announced for the future).

:) What about video playing ? Did frogger (or what the best one for the 68k) can play all modern video formats which can play mplayer for example ?

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@amigadave

Quote:

So, with that long winded explanation of my intentions and curiosity, why do most of you think there are more OS4 users (specially in the USA) than MorphOS users?

this is a good question, one we had a chance to briefly discuss this year at amiwest. if you take the position that MorphOS and OS4 compete for the same users, then it doesn't make a terrific amount of sense. among other things:

1. MorphOS is more performant in key areas, noticeably I/O and 3D graphics
2. MorphOS has a far lower entry cost on the hardware side
3. MorphOS has excellent compatibility with OS3, in some cases better than OS4

so why do folks not choose MOS, then? the simplest answer is that, frankly, MOS and OS4 are very different. just sit down and use the stock install of MOS on a mac mini and then compare with the latest OS4 build. ambient doesn't feel like workbench, the prefs system is different, the GUI feels different, the file structure is similar -- but different. i think @danwood summed it up quite well in suggesting that MOS feels like what AOS could have been if its development had continued uninterrupted. 'more modern but with the amiga flavor.'

i can't talk to other people's preferences for one over the other, so i'll list my own and let's see if anyone agrees:

1. OS4 is gorgeous. this is subjective, of course. many prefer the 'look and feel' of MOS, but i really love the window decorations, icon set, widgets, etc. of OS4. i don't particularly care for the appearance of MOS in any of its guises.

2. workbench uses a spatial metaphor. and i love how different it is to KDE, GNOME, OSX, windows, etc. i love the vocabulary: drawers, not folders; tools, not applications; workbench instead of a desktop. on MOS i feel like i'm using a browser, and i really don't like that. i also like that AREXX scripts for the workbench still work well. that may also be true with ambient, though. i don't know.

3. the community is much, much nicer on the OS4 side. again, this is subjective, but the behavior of some MOS users and developers is a huge turn-off for me. one developer in particular seems obsessed with OS4 and its goings-on, and others are just as snarky. there are OS4 nutters, too, but they don't constantly obsess over or invade the threads of MOS or AROS users.

4. i like exotic hardware. for most that would be a downside, but for me, i quite like having something different. the cost is irrelevant to me because i consider my 'amiga' to be a hobby, nothing more.

there are a bunch of other reasons as well, such as screen-dragging vs compiz-like desktop switching or tunenet vs aminetradio, but it all just comes down to personal preferences. when i sit down at an OS4 box, i enjoy using it. it feels different. it feels enjoyable. i just don't get those sensations with MOS. its very fast, very well designed, very precise. but it just leaves me cold.

Quote:

Do most, or many OS4 users feel that if they were to try MorphOS, or become users of both OS4 and MorphOS they would be betraying their OS4 brethren in some way?

maybe one or two, but the OS4 world has largely moved past the whole red v blue nonsense. for some reason the MOS community pays a tremendous amount of attention to what happens in the OS4 world. most people in the OS4 world just don't really care that much about the MOS world. that's not a negative per se, we just aren't as interested.

Quote:

How many OS4 users are interested in obtaining a system to run MorphOS, if you don't already have a Pegasos 2?

i think this is a neat way to describe my interest in OS4 vs MOS. if i already had a compatible system, i would purchase a MOS license and use it, but i wouldn't go out and buy a system just for running MOS, even if it was only $5. but i would go out and purchase a machine just to run OS4.

once again, not rational, but then again, hobbies aren't supposed to be.

-- eliyahu

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@Zylesea
Quote:

Once 3.0 is out MorphOS team should consider an advert is some Mac magazine - I mean, what's the easiest way to reach Mac hardware owners and telling them their old kit is not useless.

And while someone can found that strange, and maybe you do that post for the laugh, still, that is really way to attract more users, and make at last first steps to try to be "some kind of modern os".

Also not only in macs mags, but in any kind of magazines which cover "alternatives". Just without sticking with all that "only amiga" and "aos3.x api forever". Just as some real alternative for users who do not know (and do not want) to know about all that amiga past.

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@kas1e

Quote:

And while someone can found that strange, and maybe you do that post for the laugh, still, that is really way to attract more users, and make at last first steps to try to be "some kind of modern os". Also not only in macs mags, but in any kind of magazines which cover "alternatives". Just without sticking with all that "only amiga" and "aos3.x api forever". Just as some real alternative for users who do not know (and do not want) to know about all that amiga past.

that's not a bad idea. MOS can stand on its own as alternative to OSX on powerpc-based macs. i would focus there on attracting new users rather than the existing amiga community where folks have more or less made up their minds one way or another already.

-- eliyahu

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@amigadave

Hi amigadave. OS4.x user here.

re: MOS
1. I tried to become part of the Phoenix Consortium back in the early (pre-MOS) days. Not being a programmer, I volunteered to be a translator. Never did get anything to do, even though I got my NDA. Can't say I didn't try to move Amiga forward via the MOS route.
2. Caustic treatment as a Phase5 SCSI user by Ralph Schmidt prior to any involvement on his part in MOS development.
3. The wars. Too many MOS users constantly haranguing against OS4 and A1 harware, in turn causing defensive statements from OS4 users (like me), in turn. . .

4. My perception in early days that MOS would be short lived, once OS4 took off. (admittedly wrong)
You say that's all in the past and shouldn't matter now. But -hey- my choice to go the OS4 route was way in the past, too. (and the same A1 hardware is still serving me well.)
All of the above contributed to my choosing an AmigaOne and the OS4 route rather than MOS.

re: AROS

The question is kind of anachronistic. There was really nothing useable back then to even consider.

1. Have wanted to try AROS nonetheless, lately.
2. Downloaded and ran Icaros.
3. I have 5 different Windoze machines to try AROS on. None of them have the required hardware for an actual install. None of my Windoze machines even have a PATA drive anymore. (nor does my A1) Running it under QEMU isn't that much fun.

AROS might be OK as far as it goes, but it's not yet ready for prime time. And I'm not going to buy a 6th Windoze machin just so I can try AROS.

Someone already wrote eloquently about persisting in our choices. Adding to that thought is the matter of economics. If I've paid money to get hardware and support software on one system, chances are good I won't have money left over to do the same thing all over again for a different system. Economics supports the persistence argument.

Paul

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