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      /  Woot! X1000 shipping out Monday
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Zylesea 
Re: Woot! X1000 shipping out Monday
Posted on 30-Jan-2012 22:26:07
#141 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2263
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@ChrisH

Quote:

ChrisH wrote:

We have been officially told that SMP (aka dual-core support) is planned for AmigaOS4.

There is quite some difference between SMP and "dual core support" which may be some AMP. Not to say that AMP must necessarily be worse than SMP. But it depends a lot on how it will get implemented and recepted by application programmers. I still doubt AmigaOS will see SMP w/o breaking backwardscompability or sandboxing. Best guess is some AMP solution. Which can be fine. Unfortunately Hyperion is usually rather sparse on technical information.

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realize 
Re: Woot! X1000 shipping out Monday
Posted on 30-Jan-2012 22:34:38
#142 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2003
Posts: 1797
From: nyc

@thead
I would love to know what apps need dual Cpu support. Instead of that bs resources need to be used for SOFTWARE

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Zylesea 
Re: Woot! X1000 shipping out Monday
Posted on 30-Jan-2012 22:46:06
#143 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2263
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@realize

All software that demands some cpu power and is somehow parallelizable. I like multithreading programming - I even think it makes quite some things easier. But yet I did that on Windows only (CreateThread() is easy to use). Also I like to note that am a really bad programmer. However, I think an overuse of threads may yield in a slow down if not cleverly done (waiting/syncing of threads + context switches).

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-Sam- 
Re: Woot! X1000 shipping out Monday
Posted on 30-Jan-2012 23:17:24
#144 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2003
Posts: 3035
From: Yorkshire Dales, United Knigdom

@ChrisH

Quote:
someone may be working on updating it


Let's hope so as we really should have the latest version.

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Karlos 
Re: Woot! X1000 shipping out Monday
Posted on 30-Jan-2012 23:18:44
#145 ]
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Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 4394
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@realize & zylsea

You don't even need multithreaded applications to get a benefit from SMP. Take any two single-threaded applications that need a lot of CPU time and run them concurrently. After all, running more than one application at once a concept something that all amiga users should be familiar with ;)

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Zylesea 
Re: Woot! X1000 shipping out Monday
Posted on 30-Jan-2012 23:27:27
#146 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2263
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@Karlos

Quote:

Karlos wrote:
@realize & zylsea

You don't even need multithreaded applications to get a benefit from SMP. Take any two single-threaded applications that need a lot of CPU time and run them concurrently. After all, running more than one application at once a concept something that all amiga users should be familiar with ;)

You're right. That's the most obvious and indeed pretty important in every day use of course. But that will probably be difficult to achieve with AMP instead of SMP.

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itix 
Re: Woot! X1000 shipping out Monday
Posted on 31-Jan-2012 6:12:05
#147 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Karlos

In fact majority of software is already multithreaded because UI is often running on its own thread. And of course OS tasks are always running on a background (input.device thread, USB stack, TCP/IP stack and so on).

However other problems still exist.

Last edited by itix on 31-Jan-2012 at 06:14 AM.

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AmiDog 
Re: Woot! X1000 shipping out Monday
Posted on 31-Jan-2012 7:52:27
#148 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2004
Posts: 917
From: Kumla, Sweden

@realize

Quote:
you cant go SMP without BREAKING LEGACY 68K COMPATIBILITY.

So? Use RunInUAE for those apps which doesn't like being run in a SMP environment. Problem solved.

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Deniil715 
Re: Woot! X1000 shipping out Monday
Posted on 31-Jan-2012 9:28:04
#149 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4236
From: Sweden

@realize

Quote:

Quote:
you cant go SMP without BREAKING LEGACY 68K COMPATIBILITY.


KimmoK:
Care to explain why it would break 68k compatibility (more than what executive did)?


Yes, I'd like to know as well.

The only thing I can see, that the kernel can't take care of, is breaking the hard task priorities, just like 68k Executive. NO BIG DEAL!

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Zylesea 
Re: Woot! X1000 shipping out Monday
Posted on 31-Jan-2012 10:35:10
#150 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2263
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

edit:
--

Last edited by Zylesea on 31-Jan-2012 at 10:49 AM.
Last edited by Zylesea on 31-Jan-2012 at 10:35 AM.

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Toaks 
Re: Woot! X1000 shipping out Monday
Posted on 31-Jan-2012 11:47:27
#151 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 8042
From: amigaguru.com

@BrandonLee

so if i send you an ua1c then you won't buy a pc?

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KimmoK 
Re: Woot! X1000 shipping out Monday
Posted on 31-Jan-2012 12:51:57
#152 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@itix

"However other problems still exist."

This would be another good opportunity for OS developers to co-operate to get the most out of SMP.

But surely those OS developers prefer to do it three times + same errors everyone etc....

And it's the community/userspace that suffers from it. AGAIN!

Last edited by KimmoK on 31-Jan-2012 at 12:52 PM.

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itix 
Re: Woot! X1000 shipping out Monday
Posted on 31-Jan-2012 15:31:45
#153 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Deniil715

Race conditions with 68k instructions that are atomic in real 68k but not in emulated environment.

And of course it is not just task scheduling but you have to consider how software and hardware interrupts relate with task scheduling.

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ChrisH 
Re: Woot! X1000 shipping out Monday
Posted on 1-Feb-2012 18:32:34
#154 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@realize Quote:
here we go again... (sigh) you cant go SMP without BREAKING LEGACY 68K COMPATIBILITY. Morphos guys looked at this for a long time.. and never implemented it for this very reason.

And strangely the OS4 devs looked at this for a long time... and have a plan for how to do it. Perhaps both are right... they just had different ideas about what they wanted from SMP?

I also have a good idea how they COULD do it in an almost entirely backwards-compatible way (which BTW would actually be less elegant MorphOS so perhaps the idea didn't occur to them). I don't think there would be a problem with the atomic 68k instruction issue mentioned ages ago by Bernie (of Amithlon fame), nor the other issues that are being vaguely implied.

Last edited by ChrisH on 01-Feb-2012 at 06:39 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 01-Feb-2012 at 06:38 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 01-Feb-2012 at 06:37 PM.

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ChrisH 
Re: Woot! X1000 shipping out Monday
Posted on 1-Feb-2012 18:33:32
#155 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@Zylesea Quote:
There is quite some difference between SMP and "dual core support" which may be some AMP.

Hyperion have called it "SMP" as far as I recall. My "(aka dual core support)" aside was for non-programmers.

Last edited by ChrisH on 01-Feb-2012 at 06:38 PM.

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persia 
Re: Woot! X1000 shipping out Monday
Posted on 1-Feb-2012 20:03:26
#156 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Jul-2009
Posts: 1059
From: Unknown

@-Sam-

I like the name Woot! X1000. I'm just surprised no one had trademarked it.

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BillE 
Re: Woot! X1000 shipping out Monday
Posted on 1-Feb-2012 20:27:49
#157 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Nov-2003
Posts: 1195
From: Northern Scotland

@persia

Quote:
I like the name Woot! X1000. I'm just surprised no one had trademarked it.



What, you mean you have not heard of CUSA's new Woot! range of linux PCs

Last edited by BillE on 01-Feb-2012 at 10:15 PM.

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realize 
Re: Woot! X1000 shipping out Monday
Posted on 2-Feb-2012 1:27:46
#158 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2003
Posts: 1797
From: nyc

@ChrisH

I know one thing if the big team of amiga geniuses like the amiga luminaries who are on the Morphos team say its not practical to do it or cant be done without many problems for legacy compatiblity I think I believe that.

Especially considering how more technically advanced Morphos is and longer development time they would have had dual core support in Pmacs.

Having said all this.. once again i ask please tell me one application we need dual core on. Especially on X1000 which single core is plenty fast for any silly amiga apps.

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sundown 
Re: Woot! X1000 shipping out Monday
Posted on 2-Feb-2012 3:25:22
#159 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5120
From: Right here...

@realize

Quote:
once again i ask please tell me one application we need dual core on. Especially on X1000 which single core is plenty fast for any silly amiga apps.

Blender to be specific & any 3D app in general, dnetc is another. Maybe os4 will use a prefs program like Compatability, just add an app that can use both cores. Just because one guy can't think outside the box, doesn't mean the next guy can't, so please stop tell us we can't discuss SMP on the x1000.

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realize 
Re: Woot! X1000 shipping out Monday
Posted on 2-Feb-2012 3:59:44
#160 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2003
Posts: 1797
From: nyc

@sundown

Quote:
so please stop tell us we can't discuss SMP on the x1000


I tell you so you can live in reality not fantasy land. You think I want to tell you this? Its based on fact.

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