Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
6093 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
Home
Features
News
Forums
Classifieds
Links
Downloads
Extras
OS4 Zone
IRC Network
AmigaWorld Radio
Newsfeed
Top Members
Amiga Dealers
Information
About Us
FAQs
Advertise
Polls
Terms of Service
Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Ports: 1024,5555, 6665-6669
SSL port: 6697
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

Who's Online
11 crawler(s) on-line.
 8 guest(s) on-line.
 0 member(s) on-line.



You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 agami:  11 mins ago
 Kraftwerk2:  12 mins ago
 Rob:  22 mins ago
 matthey:  26 mins ago
 Jasper:  30 mins ago
 MEGA_RJ_MICAL:  58 mins ago
 zipper:  1 hr 4 mins ago
 Deniil715:  1 hr 16 mins ago
 utukku:  1 hr 24 mins ago
 billt:  1 hr 38 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Classic Amiga Software
      /  Tester for Aros 68k Distribution wanted
Register To Post

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 Next Page )
PosterThread
Franko 
Re: Tester for Aros 68k Distribution wanted
Posted on 6-Mar-2012 15:29:23
#101 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jun-2010
Posts: 2809
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
@Franko

Try the nightly build with newest roms first, at least we can sort out where the problem is. I will update my own distribution next weekend.


Erm... that's what I just download and tried which resulted in the dark grey screen and freeze...

Gotta go out now... I'll try another Amiga set up when I get back...

_________________

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Franko 
Re: Tester for Aros 68k Distribution wanted
Posted on 6-Mar-2012 21:04:23
#102 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jun-2010
Posts: 2809
From: Unknown

Finally got it working on an A1200 Blizzard030 50Mhz + FPU 64MB RAM...

WARNING: The following video is not for those who like AROS and are of a nervous disposition...
(You may also want to turn down the sound if you don't like hearing the half crazed ramblings of a mad Scotsman or his singing)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPgMYx1H-yI
(why can't you actually watch videos on this site yet !!!)

I was always taught "if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all"... thankfully I never paid any attention to that...

So here goes my initial and honest reaction & opinion to this thing they call AROS...

WHY... I really mean WHY !!!

I'm not sure who this aimed at now or what the point is behind AROS but from the above experience I just don't get it...

Without upsetting anyone too much here is why I say that, so please don't take any of it personally, it's just that I'm left wondering what the actual point is in AROS now...

First off... it would appear from the giant size of icons being used that this is being developed by people not on real Amiga hardware and using screen resolutions that your typical Amiga user wouldn't use...

I fully understand it's still under development but on an 030 as shown in the video it's obviously still got a very, very long way to go...

Why develop AROS using screen resolutions that are not used by the majority of your everyday Amiga users and create windows that are too big for the screen. I'm talking here about something as simple as the "About" menu item (not shown in the video) which opens up and goes right off the bottom of the screen only showing about half of it and being unable to move to or see the lower half...

Yes it's very slow and obviously needs a lot done but just from the icons and window sizes alone it would seem the folk developing AROS are like I have said not doing so on real Amiga hardware (which is fair enough) but they are not taking into account while developing that the screen sizes they are obviously using are not those that your bog standard Amiga user would be using...

It's quite hard to say really but I can't perceive from what I have seen so far just what use or benefit AROS would be to an Amiga user like myself...

I was led to believe from everything I have read about AROS that it was a way we Amiga users could freely use the kickstart ROM image and not be caught up in all the copyright/ legal BS about who actually owns kickstart...

From this short experience however it seems to be nothing of the sort and is actually being developed more with something else in mind (not quite sure what) and not for folk like me with "real" original Amiga hardware...

Of course then I've never actually quite seen the point in this objective, as I can already freely use any kickstart rom image I want on my Amigas as it is, as no-one from A.inc is going to stop me or come raiding my house and confiscating my miggies...

Like I say, I just don't get this (even more so now), while I'm not sure how long folk have actually been working on AROS for, all I can say is.... stop... use your programming skills and talents to instead produce something useful and that people can and will want to use on their Amiga's. You've obviously got the talent to do so, so please don't waste gawd knows how many more years of your life on this and use those talents for something actually beneficial to all the Amiga community...

I know I'll get shot down in flames about this but those are my genuine and honest thoughts and opinions on AROS and there's no point in me sugar coating it and pretending otherwise just in case it upsets someone...

To the developers, I honestly wish you well in whatever you do regarding AROS (or not) but for an Amiga user like me then sorry... but I doesn't look like it is anything that will actually be useful to me in my everyday Amiga tasks...

@ Olaf & Wawa... thanks for the help guys, sorry I can't be more positive about AROS bur as explained it would appear not to be for me... been interesting though...

Awe Ra Best...

Franko

Last edited by Franko on 06-Mar-2012 at 09:05 PM.

_________________

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
wawa 
Re: Tester for Aros 68k Distribution wanted
Posted on 6-Mar-2012 21:19:41
#103 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@Franko

ive warned you about it not being much fun on 030. better check out 060 with enough ram, its much faster.

though i must mention that most of what you are criticizing here (and i agree with it most of the time) is actually due to wanderer still being crappy desktop solution atop of aros itself especially on aga. lets see what scalos wll bring. aros is a work in progress and none has advertised it to you otherwise.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Darrin 
Re: Tester for Aros 68k Distribution wanted
Posted on 6-Mar-2012 21:30:47
#104 ]
Team Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 1941
From: Lake Charles, USA

@Franko

Nice video. Were you running that off a hard drive, cassette tape or punched cards???!!!

I've downloaded AROS myself to try on my 68040. I'll see if it performs any better on my setup.

_________________
AmigaOne X1000, A4000(T), A3000, A2000, A1200(T), A1200, A500, CD32, Minimig+ARM, FPGA Arcade, Chameleon64, C-One, C128, C128D, C64C, C64, VIC-20, CBM 8032, CBM4032, Efika, Ultimate64

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
HenryCase 
Re: Tester for Aros 68k Distribution wanted
Posted on 6-Mar-2012 21:40:38
#105 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Nov-2007
Posts: 728
From: Unknown

@Franko
Thank you for the vid and for the honest feedback.

The main issue, as wawa pointed out, is with Wanderer, which by many accounts is too heavy for use with AROS 68k. Luckily, work is being done to replace it. Other than the aforementioned Scalos, there's also a bounty for open-sourcing DOpus Magellan:
http://www.power2people.org/projects/profile/64

Should this bounty be completed, you can expect DOpus Magellan to be a popular desktop for use with AROS 68k. If you've not used DOpus Magellan before, this vid should give you a feel for what it's like to use (might want to mute the audio):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UmdxbcsMg4

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Tester for Aros 68k Distribution wanted
Posted on 6-Mar-2012 22:09:02
#106 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12001
From: Norway

@Franko

Thanks, I was wondering how this runs

I think its easy to see from the video that a full installation of AROS on a NatAmi is not a realistic combination, I guess the AROS rom's alone are ok if they are 100% AmigaOS compatible and not too slow.

_________________
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/
Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
_ThEcRoW 
Re: Tester for Aros 68k Distribution wanted
Posted on 6-Mar-2012 22:16:29
#107 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 830
From: Murcia (Spain)

@wawa

Wanderer being crappy?. Wouldn't it be the fact of using aga and not rtg?. Nobody in his sane mind uses aga for productivity. Also, aros was developed with x86 cpus in mind, so the slow performance on 68k is assumed, even on 060.

_________________
Amiga 1200 desktop. Apollo 030/50 Mhz 8mb ram + ClassicWB + Wb 3.1
Amiga 500 + ACA500plus 8mb + 30gb CF
Raspberry Pi 3b+ and Amibian 1.4
Mac Mini G4 1GB Ram with the butterfly!!

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Franko 
Re: Tester for Aros 68k Distribution wanted
Posted on 6-Mar-2012 22:20:31
#108 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jun-2010
Posts: 2809
From: Unknown

@ Wawa

Not actually criticising just giving my honest view on something I've just tried out. I know it work in progress (I already said so) but I never claimed it was being advertised to me as anything else...


@ Darrin

Actually it was made with old 1902 hand cranked "how ever many frames per second your arm can wind at" Kodak sepia film camera, same kind they didn't use to make Charlie Chaplin films when I was a kid...


@ HenryCase

Like I said I never see the point in saying something is good just so I don't hurt someones feelings, all that would do is leave them going along the same path believing what they were doing was flawless and not being given the truth which may help them make a better product...

Like I say, I'm not exactly sure now what the point is behind AROS for the reasons I gave. There's no point in me saying much more about it unless it's to say something positive that may occur as it progresses, as my views on it have been expressed here as it currently stands...

While it may not "be for me" at the moment, I'm just going to try it out on my other 060 board and see how that performs (if I can get it working) but I'd be happy from now on to simply test AROS on my Amiga hardware in order to provide bug reports/ feedback to the developers...

Tried Magellan many moons ago, not my cup of tee. I prefer my Amiga's to be plain and simple like you can see at the beginning of the video...

Spent many years getting everything to run & fit in the native 640 x256 screenmode and that's the way I like it for me. The only time I use anything other is for PageStream and Final writer where I use interlace mode, sometimes wonder why I use a Microvitic Multisysnc and a Commodore 1942 monitor when I never use productivity or Mutliscan modes...

Too many years like I say making my Amiga's as lean and fast as possible that I reckon that for me any change just never feels right somehow...but hey, I like it that way...

_________________

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Franko 
Re: Tester for Aros 68k Distribution wanted
Posted on 6-Mar-2012 22:26:51
#109 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jun-2010
Posts: 2809
From: Unknown

@_ThEcRoW

Quote:

_ThEcRoW wrote:
@wawa

Wanderer being crappy?. Wouldn't it be the fact of using aga and not rtg?. Nobody in his sane mind uses aga for productivity. Also, aros was developed with x86 cpus in mind, so the slow performance on 68k is assumed, even on 060.


Hmmm... I've never actually read that before, that AROS was not designed for use with AGA or being developed with X86 cpus in mind...

From everything I've read over the past two years on all the Amiga forums I was under the impression the main aim of AROS was to be a sort of replacement ROM image so that all the copyright nonsense with A.inc and whomever could be put behind us all...

So I'm sure i'm not the only one who DIDN'T ASSUME that it would be slow under 68k...

Oh well, gonna give it a go now on an 060 (hopefully) just to see how it compares to the 030, it can only be better...

_________________

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
OlafS25 
Re: Tester for Aros 68k Distribution wanted
Posted on 6-Mar-2012 22:28:27
#110 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5981
From: Unknown

@wawa

The icons were one of the reasons for me to make a new distribution

@Franko

It was up to now mainly optimized for emulation so either you use emulation or Graphic Card with 68060. But it was interesting to see it on real hardware even if it is not recommendable on Classic AGA right now. Anyway thanks for your effort. It was first created on X86 and then optimized for WinUAE (Emulation). I think I can remember that it was similare slow on emulation at the start and then speeded up.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 06-Mar-2012 at 10:33 PM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
OlafS25 
Re: Tester for Aros 68k Distribution wanted
Posted on 6-Mar-2012 22:31:39
#111 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5981
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

you cannot say this generally, the Natami will have fully optimized a much higher bandwidth than AGA and of course a very very fast 68060 >100 Mhz so we will have to see how Aros will behave on Natami then.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
OlafS25 
Re: Tester for Aros 68k Distribution wanted
Posted on 6-Mar-2012 22:35:55
#112 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5981
From: Unknown

@Franko

Yes, I did assume it a little faster because I am using it on a fast system and almost forgot that there is slow hardware. But it can only get better.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Franko 
Re: Tester for Aros 68k Distribution wanted
Posted on 6-Mar-2012 22:40:50
#113 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jun-2010
Posts: 2809
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
@Franko

It was up to now mainly optimized for emulation so either you use emulation or Graphic Card with 68060. But it was interesting to see it on real hardware even if it is not recommendable on Classic AGA right now. Anyway thanks for your effort. It was first created on X86 and then optimized for WinUAE (Emulation). I think I can remember that it was similare slow on emulation at the start and then speeded up.


Like I said nothing was meant to put down the work of the developers in what I said, not sure what I was expecting at first and still not quite sure of the final goal of AROS...

But I'm right now putting a "Plain" 060 board in a miggie and going to see if it'll fire up and I'd be as well making another video (if it works) for comparison sakes...

Promise I wont talk (gibber) in this one though...

_________________

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
OlafS25 
Re: Tester for Aros 68k Distribution wanted
Posted on 6-Mar-2012 22:45:42
#114 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5981
From: Unknown

@Franko

thanx we can imagine your voice

I think I can remember from the first versions that it was only fast in RTG, so graphic card would propably help much. That has changed over the time in emulation (it is always fast now).

And regarding the icons... I use Glowicons in my distribution so do not judge it using a nightly build.

and regarding speed... as far as I know even Jason has installed it only one time on real classic hardware so it is propably not optimized for classic environment up to now.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 06-Mar-2012 at 10:50 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 06-Mar-2012 at 10:47 PM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
HenryCase 
Re: Tester for Aros 68k Distribution wanted
Posted on 6-Mar-2012 23:07:52
#115 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Nov-2007
Posts: 728
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga
Quote:
NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
I think its easy to see from the video that a full installation of AROS on a NatAmi is not a realistic combination, I guess the AROS rom's alone are ok if they are 100% AmigaOS compatible and not too slow.


Please remember the video showed AROS booting from floppies (which is much slower than booting from hard disk), and remember the Natami should be much faster, plus AROS 68k is still being improved.

@_ThEcRoW
Quote:
_ThEcRoW wrote:
Wouldn't it be the fact of using aga and not rtg?. Nobody in his sane mind uses aga for productivity. Also, aros was developed with x86 cpus in mind, so the slow performance on 68k is assumed, even on 060.


Nope, the x86 port doesn't limit the 68k port in the way you imagine, the main issue really is with Wanderer, and also the 68k code base is still evolving. Performance will approach AmigaOS 3.x speeds given time and development.

@Franko
Quote:
Franko wrote:
While it may not "be for me" at the moment, I'm just going to try it out on my other 060 board and see how that performs (if I can get it working) but I'd be happy from now on to simply test AROS on my Amiga hardware in order to provide bug reports/ feedback to the developers...


Sounds good, thank you.

Quote:
Franko wrote:
Tried Magellan many moons ago, not my cup of tee. I prefer my Amiga's to be plain and simple like you can see at the beginning of the video...


Fair enough. What about Scalos, have you tried that too?
http://scalos.noname.fr/

Quote:
Franko wrote:
From everything I've read over the past two years on all the Amiga forums I was under the impression the main aim of AROS was to be a sort of replacement ROM image so that all the copyright nonsense with A.inc and whomever could be put behind us all...


It's not only that, but what you describe is a big benefit of the work that has been done on AROS. The history and goals of the AROS project can be found here:
http://aros.sourceforge.net/introduction/

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Franko 
Re: Tester for Aros 68k Distribution wanted
Posted on 6-Mar-2012 23:19:49
#116 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jun-2010
Posts: 2809
From: Unknown

@HenryCase

Quote:

HenryCase wrote:
@NutsAboutAmiga

Please remember the video showed AROS booting from floppies (which is much slower than booting from hard disk), and remember the Natami should be much faster, plus AROS 68k is still being improved.


Erm... no that video was booting from hard disk (doubt you could boot it from floppies)...


Anywhoo here's the good news AROS has just booted up on my "plain" Blizzard060, a hell of a lot faster than it was on the 030, still not perfect but I think when you see it you might be a wee bit more impressed this time... I was...

Here's the bad new it's take this ruddy old iMac G5 almost an hour to convert the 10 minute DVD recording I'm about to make and then another hour to upload the thing to YouTube...

So in the meantime, take the dog a walk, watch Lord Of The Rings (the 3 box full extended DVD edition), or just go to bed...

Might actually be worth the wait this time as from the small test I have just did things move a lot faster & smoother on the 060...

_________________

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pixie 
Re: Tester for Aros 68k Distribution wanted
Posted on 6-Mar-2012 23:34:17
#117 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2681
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@Franko

Quote:

Franko wrote:
@_ThEcRoW

Quote:

_ThEcRoW wrote:
@wawa

Wanderer being crappy?. Wouldn't it be the fact of using aga and not rtg?. Nobody in his sane mind uses aga for productivity. Also, aros was developed with x86 cpus in mind, so the slow performance on 68k is assumed, even on 060.


Hmmm... I've never actually read that before, that AROS was not designed for use with AGA or being developed with X86 cpus in mind...

From everything I've read over the past two years on all the Amiga forums I was under the impression the main aim of AROS was to be a sort of replacement ROM image so that all the copyright nonsense with A.inc and whomever could be put behind us all...

So I'm sure i'm not the only one who DIDN'T ASSUME that it would be slow under 68k...

Oh well, gonna give it a go now on an 060 (hopefully) just to see how it compares to the 030, it can only be better...


http://aros.sourceforge.net/introduction/index.php

Here you'll find about AROS history and how it all started back in 1993, from there you'll get that: 'Can be ported to different kinds of hardware architectures and processors, such as x86, PowerPC, Alpha, Sparc, HPPA and other.' not even 68k is referred, and as been since the dawn of times developed with x86 in mind, only recently it was backported to 68k.

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
wawa 
Re: Tester for Aros 68k Distribution wanted
Posted on 6-Mar-2012 23:34:19
#118 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@Franko

i think its very good that you have made that video. perhaps now aros devs will take this a little more seriously to fix the biggest annoyances on wanderer and 68k which i partly reported for ages. most of them dont test too frequently on real 68k hardware as it demands patience as you have seen for yourself, therefore it remains at a low priority.

if you have a widescreen lcd tv that you can connect to your miggy you could use superhires interlace for workbench. it isnt too sharp but about usable here, even if you have to remember not to turn too much colors on having only 2 meg chipram at disposal;)

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
wawa 
Re: Tester for Aros 68k Distribution wanted
Posted on 6-Mar-2012 23:35:58
#119 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@HenryCase

Quote:

Please remember the video showed AROS booting from floppies

aros on floppies... cannot wait to see wanderer do that one day..

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
wawa 
Re: Tester for Aros 68k Distribution wanted
Posted on 6-Mar-2012 23:41:13
#120 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@_ThEcRoW

Quote:

@wawa

Wanderer being crappy?. Wouldn't it be the fact of using aga and not rtg?. Nobody in his sane mind uses aga for productivity. Also, aros was developed with x86 cpus in mind, so the slow performance on 68k is assumed, even on 060.

is that an excuse for aros being magnitudes slower than original amiga os on the same hardware? as you may have noticed aros68k have alerady contributed to optimizations of all aros platforms. no reason not to take it further. aros is the slowest of amiga-ng solutions at the moment, while it might not reach aos levels due to hal, it surely can be fast enough to run on 68k hardware reliably.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 Next Page )

[ home ][ about us ][ privacy ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright (C) 2000 - 2019 Amigaworld.net.
Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle