@amigadave

Quote:

amigadave wrote: IIRC, Ben Hermanns is no longer a partner of A-Eon, since they reformed in the UK and closed the Belgium based company. AmigaKit is now a partner of A-Eon. A-Eon and Hyperion are not the same company. Ben Hermanns is still at Hyperion.

please post the source, and even if its true its not your job to make these announcements.

Last edited by Toaks on 06-Feb-2012 at 08:56 AM.

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@Toaks

Maybe amigadave is the reliable source himself with his conversations with trevor? Pull your head in , and treat the mods with a modicum of respect. I know your sig is just for show, but at least pretend to abide by it.

Last edited by cheesegrate on 06-Feb-2012 at 12:02 AM.

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@number6 & Toaks,

I am waiting for a reply from my "Source".

I honestly thought this information was known more widely and apologize to all parties for my statement, if it has caused any confusion, or harm. That was certainly not my intent.

I will not say more until I have consulted with my source.

Please do not reply to this message in any way and return to the topic of this thread.

My statement and it's source is not open for further discussion at this time.

Thank you

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Amiga! The computer that inspired so many, to accomplish so much, but has ended up in the hands of . . . . . . . . . .

David,
First, congrats, glad to see you here.

Second, while developer tools would be useful so would greater support of open standards.

While I like MorphOS' support of a subset of OpenGL, but wish it was more complete.

As OS4 can't offer DirectX, OpenGL support would prove useful in developing graphic rich software easier.

@amigadave

Anyone else have any ideas about this topic, or do you all think this is a waste of time and effort?
Yes, Amiga has never showed any good business management skills! So why should it survive? Common sense tells you to stay away from a wobbly bridge or rebuild it... No vote ; don't care to...

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@amigadave

Quote:

just tell me if more developers can be bought (or rented) for the right amount of money.

Yes.

#6

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@Snuffy

"So why should it survive? "

Because what it is? (nice hobby or semiprofessional computer system)

Last edited by KimmoK on 06-Feb-2012 at 06:48 AM.

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@cheesegrate

i have the utmost respect for moderators who do their job.
is my sig for show? , i think you need to look into who i am then.

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Better dev tools, 100%.

At the moment coding for AmigaOS is a chore as there's no real debugger and the development environment is kludgy. CubicIDE is great but out of date with the later SDKs, and relies on a GDB which we don't have.

We need a proper integrated IDE like Eclipse, then I think suddenly development would take off again. At the moment using an Amiga is a pleasure, but developing for it is a pain in the neck.

@amigadave

I think that what "g_kraszewski" is saying is interesting.
How about a small montly fee send to him by enough users so he can write Amiga programming docs? He surely show by it's tutorials that he's capable of doing the job.
Now we need to see if enough Amigans are interested, then define the work to be done, planning, amount of money...
This can address one of the problem we're facing. (ie proper up to date documentation).

I set the bounty below the 17th of January, dead end it seems.
Amiga Rom Kernel Reference Manual: Libraries Fourth Edition

Worst, the bounty below has been submitted in march 2010 and nothing...
OS4 Programming Book

One thing is that we may need official documentation, I don't know who is the owner of the RKRM but being able to update them will be a lot less work than having to redo everything. Olaf Barthel might also be interested if there's enough money...

Kamel

Last edited by kamelit0 on 06-Feb-2012 at 12:16 PM.

@kamelit0

It is a good idea. Certainly one I wouldn't mind doing the occasional mini-bounty on. I don't think Mr. Kraszewski is the right person as such because he's not on OS4 user, he's a MOS dev (and a very good one too). But his idea is a good one (and obviously he'd be welcome to do the bounties too).

I'd certainly be more than happy to write a few tutorials if I could justify the time on it, and I have the equipment and knowledge to do it - the only thing I don't have is time, but when you're a business, bounties buy time....

@

Hardware Drivers and their docs.

Development environments, language types, APIs, all depend on drivers.
X1000 is 'a new BEGINNING' not just because it is new hardware, but rather
because it is known hardware for the developers to work with.

Office apps, file programs, graphics and sound programs will all be written
with various Rube Goldberg patches without proper drivers and docs.

Drivers.

@Spirantho

I don't think Mr. Kraszewski is the right person as such because he's not on OS4 user, he's a MOS dev

Not really precise. I'm a registered AmigaOS 4.1 user, I've also written at least two non-trivial native AmigaOS 4 applications. But then I agree that there are more competent people than me, when we talk about AmigaOS 4 programming tutorials. Time will tell.

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RastPort

@g_kraszewski + @Spirantho

I guess there is (hardly) nobody who can write an OS4 programmers manual right away. The author will learn/has to do some research in order to accomplish that. Wether this might be the Friedens or Mr. Kraszewski. It is more a question of getting somebody who is willing to do that and capable to a ceratain stage. I guess Mr.Kraszewski is capable and willing. Finding somebody else who is more capable and willing will be quiet hard.

@hyperion

Once again, please give us some infos !
Is there a need for "community driven documentation", or is there something in the pipeline already ?
Will you or your employees/contractors contribute with knowledge ?
Seems there is money out there, what would you suggest to invest into ? Besides buying a third of fourth OS4 licence where we have no need for !

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@Spirantho
Quote:

Better dev tools, 100%.

I agree to all those comments on dev tools.

Currently, in my opinion, the Amiga platform is not very "sexy" for developers outside the community. For example, whenever I coded for fun it was because either
1. the target system was unusual (microcontrollers, mobile phones, etc.)
2. the development environment was easy to use or special (Eclipse, new programming language, etc.)
3. the OS had interesting features (BeOS' object-oriented API, etc.)

The AmigaOS only partially falls into the last category. I would have a very hard time to convince some of the geeks here at the university (which are usually very open to exotic platfoms) to develop for AmigaOS.

Better tools seems to be high on the list for a lot of people. IIRC, Steve Solie made some comments during the last AmiWest Show about progress or work being done in this direction for OS4. The MorphOS Dev. Team released a new editor in their SDK last year called "Scribble" that looked impressive. Not sure what progress has been made recently for AROS users and programmers.

Given that the Amiga is now over 25 years old, some of the most experienced Amiga programmers from the past are getting up in years, or have already passed away. I for one would pay good money for documentation or books written by many of them. We need to encourage them to write down, or some how pass their knowledge down to people following in their footsteps, so that wealth of knowledge is not lost forever. Finding them and convincing them to try to remember what they once were so familiar with and then put it down in some form, so that it is not forgotten and lost, will be a difficult task. Many of the best Amiga programmers have moved on and have zero interest in thinking about the Amiga any longer, but hopefully some of them could be persuaded to write down some of their knowledge, if paid to do so. Paying current developers to do more documentation and tutorials is equally, if not more important.

I have donated toward MorphOS tutorials in the past and will continue to do so in the future. If the same developer is also capable of writing tutorials and documentation for OS4, I will donate toward that project as well. If he is not, then we need to find someone else who is capable for OS4 tutorials and documentation. In fact, we should find several developers who are capable of contributing to tutorials and documentation and pay them for their time to share their knowledge and train new developers.

Mentoring beginning programmers is another worthwhile project that could be less time consuming for existing programmers, if they do not have time to write tutorials, or documentation themselves.

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Amiga! The computer that inspired so many, to accomplish so much, but has ended up in the hands of . . . . . . . . . .

Quick post before I go back to writing the Debian Squeeze installation manual. Urgh!

I don't normally comment on internal company matters on the open forums but as AmigaDave, who recently became an AW.net moderator, is coming under some stick I thought I'd rise to his defence.

At AmiWest last year I announced that I had formed a new strategic alliance with Matthew Leaman of AmigaKit to fund and develop new AmigaONE products. AmigaKit, has been instrumental in helping to bring the AmigaONE X1000 to market and without its valuable assistance the “First Contact” release would not have been possible.

The original aim of A-EON Technology was to help promote and develop powerful new hardware for AmigaOS4. Now that this has been achieved, with the release A1-X1000, I have refocused my efforts on supporting new hardware and software initiatives for the benefit of the whole Amiga community. This was also reported at AmiWest last year but it did not make much impact at the time. Anyone who really knows me, knows I’m an “Amigaholic” and, although I have a particular fondness for AmigaOS 4, I am personally interested in all things “Amigan” whatever the flavour.

The new alliance with AmigaKit will bring some necessary changes to the business model and the relevant details will be revealed at the appropriate time. As a Hyperion Entertainment sub-licensee I have openly discussed my plans for the continued support of the AmigaOS with both Ben Hermans and several key AmigaOS developers and again more details will be revealed when the time is right. I’ve also had many private conversations with fellow Amiga enthusiasts of which AmigaDave is but one. So the message is simple, don't shoot the messenger!

All that remains to be said is,

Let’s keep this party going!

TrevorD

P.S. I voted for the "raising more money" option. As I found out myself, just donating hardware to developers, although of some benefit, is not really the answer.

Last edited by TrevorDick on 07-Feb-2012 at 12:56 AM.
Last edited by TrevorDick on 07-Feb-2012 at 12:52 AM.

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@TrevorDick

Thanks Trevor, and again, please forgive my mistake. It was not intentional, as I truly thought more/most users were aware of this change and that it was not such a big deal.

Lesson learned on my part to not post about anything, unless I have seen it posted first by someone else.

@all, please forgive my stupid mistake. Remember, I am old, retired and usually well medicated to reduce the level of my 24/7 pain.

I think the world of Trevor, and he is THE reason I became interested in OS4 and the X1000. I wish him all the success he can stand with his current project and all future projects. He is a model for all other Amiga users when it comes to acceptance and support for all flavors of the Amiga experience.

Last edited by amigadave on 07-Feb-2012 at 01:21 AM.
Last edited by amigadave on 07-Feb-2012 at 01:01 AM.

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Amiga! The computer that inspired so many, to accomplish so much, but has ended up in the hands of . . . . . . . . . .

@olsen,

Mr Barthel are you reading us? Would be interesting to have your thoughts on this knowing your deep knowledge of the Amiga.

Thanks
Kamel

Last edited by kamelit0 on 07-Feb-2012 at 12:06 PM.

My 2cents

Practicaly it's interesting to have a look at what we are doing with our computer (whatever is the os).

I cannot talk for the others, but nowadays I tend to use 90% of my time doing stuff on my computer through the web (Saas softwware). My windows machine is mounted with a HD where only the OS and one or two applications is hosted there (libreoffice, winuae, office, an antivirus, and eve online&might and magic heroes, that's all) and being an IT guy in a non IT compagny, i just see that the compagny is moving faster and faster to saas software model, as doing others compagnies, even if the development cost is crazy, maintenance on desktop is reducing a lot, so when you mix all this together, the investment on saas is a dream in a world where money is to backup.

That leads me to my idea/other point.

Nowaday, developing a saas software is frankly a nighmare, with all those technologies encapsulating themselves together. Though anyone would like to say that 'simpler would be better'.

Just build us a amigaserver, which can show my browser the software i would like to use. That amigaserver would embed a new and bright technology, who allows devs to code applications fast, host'em easilly, small maintenance, and absatract all those nonsense mysql/php/html5/javascript/cookies/apache/ruby/rails/ajax and cie.

In other words, My opinion is that the future is with saas, and for amiga to bring a new revolution, we need a new server technology.

We are spending our time reinventing the wheel, we should just invent something new that would attract compagnies again.

An amiga server, with a low cost licence, and a server application that translate everything to the browser through html5 or something
An application targetted to build saas, build from scratch to meet compagnies requirements.
then, amigaos4 with something like mozilla/chrome to show the thing.

The idea behing this is to convince big compagnies and smaller ones to invest in something new that just works out of the box as client.server through the web.
Many compagnies try this actually, but wioth using old paradigms or trying to use actual technologies. Someone said one day "adapt or die", so it's time to adapt to what compagnies want.

When compagnies will buy amiga servers and desktop, desktop, drivers and so on will come.

Maybe something interesting in that frame is the rebol language, through i must admit it is still too complex to achieve the goal, but is something like a first good step to the future i would like to see.

Desktop is dead, long live the desktop;)