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WolfToTheMoon
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Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip. Posted on 17-Oct-2013 15:30:31
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Super Member |
Joined: 2-Sep-2010 Posts: 1351
From: CRO | | |
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| @KimmoK
Note that CELL was designed with the same tools as POWER4, it's not a POWER4 related CPU.
Both PPE and Xenon in the XBox 360 are in-order CPUs. POWER4 was out of order.
It would certainly be doable to have a PPC SoC with integrated graphics, but unfortunately, PPC is not in any markets that would have a need for such a product. Too bad that neither Freescale nor IBM had any competitive products for either smartphones or tablets. _________________
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Yssing
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Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip. Posted on 17-Oct-2013 16:07:58
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Joined: 24-Apr-2003 Posts: 1084
From: Unknown | | |
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| @WolfToTheMoon
http://www.bayarea.net/~kins/AboutMe/CPUs.html here are some comparisons, as you can see the CELL in the PS3 is the slowest variant of the CELL.
In any case, the new Cyrus board is going to fast, so who cares about cell any way. _________________
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damocles
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Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip. Posted on 17-Oct-2013 16:15:07
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Joined: 22-Dec-2007 Posts: 1719
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Yssing
Quote:
In any case, the new Cyrus board is going to fast, so who cares about cell any way. |
That depends on what OS your running on Cyrus at the time. If it's single threaded, not so much.
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WolfToTheMoon
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Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip. Posted on 17-Oct-2013 16:17:58
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Joined: 2-Sep-2010 Posts: 1351
From: CRO | | |
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| @damocles
even if it's SMP capable, P5020 is not that fast and it lacks Altivec. _________________
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pavlor
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Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip. Posted on 17-Oct-2013 16:29:31
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Elite Member |
Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9584
From: Unknown | | |
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| @WolfToTheMoon
Quote:
even if it's SMP capable, P5020 is not that fast and it lacks Altivec. |
If DMIPS values are true, e5500 core could be as fast as 2.6 GHz G4 core. That would suffice for strong lead even in some AltVec depending applications (eg. video playback - also memory performance is critical there). |
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WolfToTheMoon
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Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip. Posted on 17-Oct-2013 16:31:59
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Super Member |
Joined: 2-Sep-2010 Posts: 1351
From: CRO | | |
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| @pavlor
I was speaking relative to today's mobile and desktop CPUs.
It might be fast for a AmigaOne, but P5020 is not a fast CPU today. _________________
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damocles
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Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip. Posted on 17-Oct-2013 17:01:15
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Super Member |
Joined: 22-Dec-2007 Posts: 1719
From: Unknown | | |
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| @WolfToTheMoon
Quote:
even if it's SMP capable, P5020 is not that fast and it lacks Altivec. |
Does anyone really care about Altivec in 2013?
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pavlor
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Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip. Posted on 17-Oct-2013 17:07:44
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Elite Member |
Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9584
From: Unknown | | |
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| @WolfToTheMoon
Quote:
I was speaking relative to today's mobile and desktop CPUs. |
Faster than Atom, slower than Core2. |
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WolfToTheMoon
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Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip. Posted on 17-Oct-2013 17:09:28
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Super Member |
Joined: 2-Sep-2010 Posts: 1351
From: CRO | | |
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| @damocles
judging by Freescale reintroducing it on specific customer demand, yes. _________________
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WolfToTheMoon
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Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip. Posted on 17-Oct-2013 17:10:29
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Joined: 2-Sep-2010 Posts: 1351
From: CRO | | |
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| @pavlor
Quote:
Faster than Atom, slower than Core2. |
If it's slower than Core2, than it's probably slower than Bay-Trail also._________________
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pavlor
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Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip. Posted on 17-Oct-2013 17:26:27
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Elite Member |
Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9584
From: Unknown | | |
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| @WolfToTheMoon
Quote:
If it's slower than Core2, than it's probably slower than Bay-Trail also. |
I didn´t saw many Bay-Trail benchmarks to make comparison. I estimate e5500 2 GHz speed at around 1/2 Core2 Q6600 2.4 GHz single core performance (or about 1/5 of single core performance of Core i5-2500 3.3 GHz). |
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KimmoK
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Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip. Posted on 18-Oct-2013 8:19:24
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Elite Member |
Joined: 14-Mar-2003 Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland | | |
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| @WolfToTheMoon
"It would certainly be doable to have a PPC SoC with integrated graphics, but unfortunately, PPC is not in any markets that would have a need for such a product."
You got that wrong. PPC is still in the game console main stream. (today Nintendo might have some use for PPC+GPU chip and after PS4 era, who knows what CPU is used then)
Verisilicon has (in 2012) demonstrated 800Mhz PPC460 + GPU chip. (see page 21 of this pdf)
(but for Amiga low end, IMO, T1020+PCIe-external from freescale with 2D gfx would be "ok" for below 200eur Amiga. There already is that kind of product but with the incompatible P1020. I find T1020 interesting in sevaral ways. It should be priced almost as low as P1020, it should deliver 4000+MIPS per core (dualcore) and it is pin compatible with T2081 with 43000MIPS&Altivec, so single design should be reusable for higher performing version as well)
"Too bad that neither Freescale nor IBM had any competitive products for either smartphones or tablets."
Good that Amigalikes are not in tablets or phones. We do not need mobile CPU for Amigas.
Put you kind of have point as the big R&D money come from smartphone and tablet chips. (one year from now the R&D money going into ARM mobile chips might be 2x bigger than intel investments in x86/A64)
So, for IBM+friends it might be sensible to try to fight also in mobile arena, to get more $$$ for R&D in the future. Last edited by KimmoK on 18-Oct-2013 at 08:43 AM. Last edited by KimmoK on 18-Oct-2013 at 08:42 AM. Last edited by KimmoK on 18-Oct-2013 at 08:41 AM. Last edited by KimmoK on 18-Oct-2013 at 08:28 AM. Last edited by KimmoK on 18-Oct-2013 at 08:23 AM. Last edited by KimmoK on 18-Oct-2013 at 08:21 AM.
_________________ - KimmoK // For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA // // Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer? |
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WolfToTheMoon
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Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip. Posted on 18-Oct-2013 8:56:07
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Super Member |
Joined: 2-Sep-2010 Posts: 1351
From: CRO | | |
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| @KimmoK
Quote:
You got that wrong. PPC is still in the game console main stream. (today Nintendo might have some use for PPC+GPU chip and after PS4 era, who knows what CPU is used then) |
Console chips are anything but mainstream, they're custom made and not sold to 3rd parties. So even if Nintendo was, by some chance, using such a chip, it would make little difference to OS4/MOS market.
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Good that Amigalikes are not in tablets or phones. We do not need mobile CPU for Amigas. |
some mobile CPUs today are faster (and way cheaper) than PA6T. It would have been great if there were PPC mobile SoCs, but there are not any._________________
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damocles
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Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip. Posted on 18-Oct-2013 13:27:07
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Super Member |
Joined: 22-Dec-2007 Posts: 1719
From: Unknown | | |
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| @KimmoK
Quote:
You got that wrong. PPC is still in the game console main stream. |
Yet the two giants in the game console market have replaced the PPC with x86_64 for their advance versions. Microsoft has given a EOL date for the XBox360, haven't found a date yet when Sony will EOL their P3.
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Good that Amigalikes are not in tablets or phones. We do not need mobile CPU for Amigas. |
When you consider this is coming out, your statement does sound like "sour grapes."
Last edited by damocles on 18-Oct-2013 at 01:29 PM.
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KimmoK
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Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip. Posted on 18-Oct-2013 18:05:26
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Elite Member |
Joined: 14-Mar-2003 Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland | | |
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| @WolfToTheMoon
"some mobile CPUs today are faster (and way cheaper) than PA6T"
I know some mobile ARM chips are around 2Ghz. But are they available outside cellphone/PDA manufacturers?
PA6T is more expensive than the fastest of freescale & end of production, so that is very poor reference.
@Damocles
Does not change the fact that PPC is in the game console mainstream. And one day if it is only on 1/3 of the consoles, it still is in the console mainstream. (below 10% would be out of mainstream, IMHO)
Did not spot "desktop" features of that SoC.... will look for specs. Last edited by KimmoK on 18-Oct-2013 at 06:08 PM.
_________________ - KimmoK // For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA // // Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer? |
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damocles
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Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip. Posted on 18-Oct-2013 18:26:32
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Super Member |
Joined: 22-Dec-2007 Posts: 1719
From: Unknown | | |
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| @KimmoK
Quote:
Does not change the fact that PPC is in the game console mainstream. And one day if it is only on 1/3 of the consoles, it still is in the console mainstream. (below 10% would be out of mainstream, IMHO) |
If you are going by pure numbers, there was 155M PS2 sold which means MIPS is CPU king of consoles out there. :)
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WolfToTheMoon
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Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip. Posted on 18-Oct-2013 18:53:23
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Super Member |
Joined: 2-Sep-2010 Posts: 1351
From: CRO | | |
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| @KimmoK
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I know some mobile ARM chips are around 2Ghz. But are they available outside cellphone/PDA manufacturers? |
Naturally, they are... Late next year expect a number of 64 bit server ARM chips on the market. AMD will be bringing at least one of those, than there's AppliedMicro, Samsung, Qualcomm will be doing it too... so no shortage of 64 bit chips very suitable for desktop computing also and probably dirt cheap(well, compared to PPC prices). _________________
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Rose
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Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip. Posted on 18-Oct-2013 19:55:08
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Cult Member |
Joined: 5-Nov-2009 Posts: 982
From: Unknown | | |
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| @KimmoK
Quote:
Does not change the fact that PPC is in the game console mainstream. And one day if it is only on 1/3 of the consoles, it still is in the console mainstream. (below 10% would be out of mainstream, IMHO) |
You don't have to wait that for long. Combined PS4 and XBone pre-sales are already in same ballpark than total sales for Wii-U and it has been out for about a year. |
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KimmoK
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Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip. Posted on 29-Oct-2013 15:12:21
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Elite Member |
Joined: 14-Mar-2003 Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland | | |
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| Some price googling: P4080 1.5Ghz costs about USD650 T2080/2081 is said to be "value-engineering opportunity for P4080 customers, as T2080 provides equivalent performance at much lower price and power."
So... for PPC next gen prices it's below USD650 for T2080 (t2080 summary)
btw. P5020 is about USD420 P3041 is about USD300 P5040 is not yet available in volume?
btw. P1022 is about USD100 and servergy was about to make USD199 board available (but it seems canceled) Will be interesting to see how T10xx chips will be priced.
Some more prices: PPC460ex USD70 APM86692 USD100 APM86290 USD77 APM86491 USD60 (did not spot the USD30 version now...)
Something to read about Power8 etc: link Open Power article. "Nvidia, which is an ARM licensee, is not about to become a Power licensee, says Sumit Gupta, general manager of the Tesla Accelerated Computing business unit. But Nvidia is very excited about the prospects of marrying Power processors and Nvidia GPUs for both HPC and general purpose systems."
Last edited by KimmoK on 29-Oct-2013 at 03:43 PM. Last edited by KimmoK on 29-Oct-2013 at 03:21 PM.
_________________ - KimmoK // For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA // // Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer? |
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asymetrix
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Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip. Posted on 29-Oct-2013 15:35:17
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Joined: 9-Mar-2003 Posts: 868
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