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      /  Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 17-Oct-2013 14:30:31
#141 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1332
From: CRO

@KimmoK

Note that CELL was designed with the same tools as POWER4, it's not a POWER4 related CPU.

Both PPE and Xenon in the XBox 360 are in-order CPUs. POWER4 was out of order.

It would certainly be doable to have a PPC SoC with integrated graphics, but unfortunately, PPC is not in any markets that would have a need for such a product.
Too bad that neither Freescale nor IBM had any competitive products for either smartphones or tablets.

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Yssing 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 17-Oct-2013 15:07:58
#142 ]
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Joined: 24-Apr-2003
Posts: 1070
From: Unknown

@WolfToTheMoon

http://www.bayarea.net/~kins/AboutMe/CPUs.html here are some comparisons, as you can see the CELL in the PS3 is the slowest variant of the CELL.

In any case, the new Cyrus board is going to fast, so who cares about cell any way.

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damocles 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 17-Oct-2013 15:15:07
#143 ]
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Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

@Yssing

Quote:
In any case, the new Cyrus board is going to fast, so who cares about cell any way.


That depends on what OS your running on Cyrus at the time. If it's single threaded, not so much.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 17-Oct-2013 15:17:58
#144 ]
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Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1332
From: CRO

@damocles

even if it's SMP capable, P5020 is not that fast and it lacks Altivec.

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pavlor 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 17-Oct-2013 15:29:31
#145 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9431
From: Unknown

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:
even if it's SMP capable, P5020 is not that fast and it lacks Altivec.


If DMIPS values are true, e5500 core could be as fast as 2.6 GHz G4 core. That would suffice for strong lead even in some AltVec depending applications (eg. video playback - also memory performance is critical there).

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 17-Oct-2013 15:31:59
#146 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1332
From: CRO

@pavlor

I was speaking relative to today's mobile and desktop CPUs.

It might be fast for a AmigaOne, but P5020 is not a fast CPU today.

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damocles 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 17-Oct-2013 16:01:15
#147 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:
even if it's SMP capable, P5020 is not that fast and it lacks Altivec.


Does anyone really care about Altivec in 2013?

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pavlor 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 17-Oct-2013 16:07:44
#148 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9431
From: Unknown

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:
I was speaking relative to today's mobile and desktop CPUs.


Faster than Atom, slower than Core2.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 17-Oct-2013 16:09:28
#149 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1332
From: CRO

@damocles

judging by Freescale reintroducing it on specific customer demand, yes.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 17-Oct-2013 16:10:29
#150 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1332
From: CRO

@pavlor

Quote:
Faster than Atom, slower than Core2.


If it's slower than Core2, than it's probably slower than Bay-Trail also.

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pavlor 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 17-Oct-2013 16:26:27
#151 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9431
From: Unknown

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:
If it's slower than Core2, than it's probably slower than Bay-Trail also.


I didn´t saw many Bay-Trail benchmarks to make comparison. I estimate e5500 2 GHz speed at around 1/2 Core2 Q6600 2.4 GHz single core performance (or about 1/5 of single core performance of Core i5-2500 3.3 GHz).

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KimmoK 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 18-Oct-2013 7:19:24
#152 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5210
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@WolfToTheMoon

"It would certainly be doable to have a PPC SoC with integrated graphics, but unfortunately, PPC is not in any markets that would have a need for such a product."

You got that wrong. PPC is still in the game console main stream.
(today Nintendo might have some use for PPC+GPU chip and after PS4 era, who knows what CPU is used then)

Verisilicon has (in 2012) demonstrated 800Mhz PPC460 + GPU chip. (see page 21 of this pdf)

(but for Amiga low end, IMO, T1020+PCIe-external from freescale with 2D gfx would be "ok" for below 200eur Amiga. There already is that kind of product but with the incompatible P1020.
I find T1020 interesting in sevaral ways. It should be priced almost as low as P1020, it should deliver 4000+MIPS per core (dualcore) and it is pin compatible with T2081 with 43000MIPS&Altivec, so single design should be reusable for higher performing version as well)

"Too bad that neither Freescale nor IBM had any competitive products for either smartphones or tablets."

Good that Amigalikes are not in tablets or phones. We do not need mobile CPU for Amigas.

Put you kind of have point as the big R&D money come from smartphone and tablet chips.
(one year from now the R&D money going into ARM mobile chips might be 2x bigger than intel investments in x86/A64)

So, for IBM+friends it might be sensible to try to fight also in mobile arena, to get more $$$ for R&D in the future.

Last edited by KimmoK on 18-Oct-2013 at 07:43 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 18-Oct-2013 at 07:42 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 18-Oct-2013 at 07:41 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 18-Oct-2013 at 07:28 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 18-Oct-2013 at 07:23 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 18-Oct-2013 at 07:21 AM.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 18-Oct-2013 7:56:07
#153 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1332
From: CRO

@KimmoK

Quote:
You got that wrong. PPC is still in the game console main stream. (today Nintendo might have some use for PPC+GPU chip and after PS4 era, who knows what CPU is used then)


Console chips are anything but mainstream, they're custom made and not sold to 3rd parties.
So even if Nintendo was, by some chance, using such a chip, it would make little difference to OS4/MOS market.

Quote:
Good that Amigalikes are not in tablets or phones. We do not need mobile CPU for Amigas.


some mobile CPUs today are faster (and way cheaper) than PA6T.
It would have been great if there were PPC mobile SoCs, but there are not any.

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damocles 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 18-Oct-2013 12:27:07
#154 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

@KimmoK

Quote:
You got that wrong. PPC is still in the game console main stream.


Yet the two giants in the game console market have replaced the PPC with x86_64 for their advance versions. Microsoft has given a EOL date for the XBox360, haven't found a date yet when Sony will EOL their P3.

Quote:
Good that Amigalikes are not in tablets or phones. We do not need mobile CPU for Amigas.


When you consider this is coming out, your statement does sound like "sour grapes."

Last edited by damocles on 18-Oct-2013 at 12:29 PM.

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KimmoK 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 18-Oct-2013 17:05:26
#155 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5210
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@WolfToTheMoon

"some mobile CPUs today are faster (and way cheaper) than PA6T"

I know some mobile ARM chips are around 2Ghz.
But are they available outside cellphone/PDA manufacturers?

PA6T is more expensive than the fastest of freescale & end of production, so that is very poor reference.

@Damocles

Does not change the fact that PPC is in the game console mainstream. And one day if it is only on 1/3 of the consoles, it still is in the console mainstream. (below 10% would be out of mainstream, IMHO)

Did not spot "desktop" features of that SoC.... will look for specs.

Last edited by KimmoK on 18-Oct-2013 at 05:08 PM.

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damocles 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 18-Oct-2013 17:26:32
#156 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

@KimmoK

Quote:
Does not change the fact that PPC is in the game console mainstream. And one day if it is only on 1/3 of the consoles, it still is in the console mainstream. (below 10% would be out of mainstream, IMHO)


If you are going by pure numbers, there was 155M PS2 sold which means MIPS is CPU king of consoles out there. :)

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 18-Oct-2013 17:53:23
#157 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1332
From: CRO

@KimmoK

Quote:
I know some mobile ARM chips are around 2Ghz. But are they available outside cellphone/PDA manufacturers?


Naturally, they are...
Late next year expect a number of 64 bit server ARM chips on the market. AMD will be bringing at least one of those, than there's AppliedMicro, Samsung, Qualcomm will be doing it too... so no shortage of 64 bit chips very suitable for desktop computing also and probably dirt cheap(well, compared to PPC prices).

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Rose 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 18-Oct-2013 18:55:08
#158 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 982
From: Unknown

@KimmoK

Quote:
Does not change the fact that PPC is in the game console mainstream. And one day if it is only on 1/3 of the consoles, it still is in the console mainstream. (below 10% would be out of mainstream, IMHO)


You don't have to wait that for long. Combined PS4 and XBone pre-sales are already in same ballpark than total sales for Wii-U and it has been out for about a year.

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KimmoK 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 29-Oct-2013 15:12:21
#159 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5210
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

Some price googling:
P4080 1.5Ghz costs about USD650
T2080/2081 is said to be "value-engineering opportunity for P4080 customers, as T2080 provides equivalent performance at much lower price and power."

So... for PPC next gen prices it's below USD650 for T2080
(t2080 summary)

btw. P5020 is about USD420
P3041 is about USD300
P5040 is not yet available in volume?

btw. P1022 is about USD100 and servergy was about to make USD199 board available (but it seems canceled) Will be interesting to see how T10xx chips will be priced.

Some more prices:
PPC460ex USD70
APM86692 USD100
APM86290 USD77
APM86491 USD60 (did not spot the USD30 version now...)

Something to read about Power8 etc: link
Open Power article.
"Nvidia, which is an ARM licensee, is not about to become a Power licensee, says Sumit Gupta, general manager of the Tesla Accelerated Computing business unit. But Nvidia is very excited about the prospects of marrying Power processors and Nvidia GPUs for both HPC and general purpose systems."

Last edited by KimmoK on 29-Oct-2013 at 03:43 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 29-Oct-2013 at 03:21 PM.

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asymetrix 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 29-Oct-2013 15:35:17
#160 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 868
From: United Kingdom

@thread

From a classic viewpoint, the fist Amigas were developed with CPU around 100 USD mark.


I would easily buy an AmigaOne X300 baby computer 300 USD

with these specs. I wonder if they could be persuaded batch 1000 for 300 USD ;)

http://www.powerbridge.de/daten/ComputerOnModules/ComExpress-Boards/COMX-P1022/comx-p1022.htm

Last edited by asymetrix on 29-Oct-2013 at 03:51 PM.

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