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/  Forum Index
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      /  Wow! Simply WOW!
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PosterThread
itix 
Re: Wow! Simply WOW!
Posted on 23-May-2012 20:38:02
#41 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@NutsAboutAmiga

So your options are... run Amiga software natively in 040 at 040 speeds or run Amiga software emulated in PowerPC UAE at 040 speeds? Makes sense.

What PowerUp and WarpUp kernel versions support this board by the way?

@Franko



040 is in fact more compatible than 060 but 040 has got very poor performance. I had BlizzardPPC with 040 aeons ago and some games ran smoother on Blizzard-IV 030@50MHz than on my 040.

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itix 
Re: Wow! Simply WOW!
Posted on 23-May-2012 20:41:21
#42 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

68020 and 030 is too slow to play MP3


68040 is not much better there even at 33 MHz. Using PPC co-processor as an MP3 player is neat idea but then 1 GHz is overkill...

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number6 
Re: Wow! Simply WOW!
Posted on 23-May-2012 21:53:16
#43 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10837
From: In the village

@itix

Quote:
68040 is not much better there even at 33 MHz.


And no better at 40 MHz with a warpengine.

#6

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Wow! Simply WOW!
Posted on 23-May-2012 22:21:33
#44 ]
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Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11222
From: Norway

@itix

Well JIT speed does depending on code, and there is extra overhead because you have to emulate 68k registers, but on the other hand, code is interpreted once and run many times, this gives big advantage, also JIT can optimize the code before its executed, don't be surprised if 1Ghz CPU can emulate 200-800 Mhz 680x0 CPU, when it does not need to do anything else.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 23-May-2012 at 10:28 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 23-May-2012 at 10:23 PM.

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vox 
Re: Wow! Simply WOW!
Posted on 27-May-2012 23:51:05
#45 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@djrikki

Quote:
Boring! Simply Boring! Why are people wasting their time on pointless efforts like this? This is the third pointless effort since Sunday.


People love their Classics and would like to have SAM like performance on them. What is wrong with that if they are willing to pay?

@Franko

True most of wOS/pUP software wasn`t great, but there were few exceptions, Tornado 3D, some morphing software. Wildfire ... that used PPC coprocessor and few Hyperion games. Sadly PPC port of OS took so long, so point of this PPC transition is to get real fast OS 4.x on Classics, and only newer PPC chip can do that

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realize 
Re: Wow! Simply WOW!
Posted on 28-May-2012 0:18:08
#46 ]
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Joined: 14-Apr-2003
Posts: 1797
From: nyc

@itix

Quote:
What PowerUp and WarpUp kernel versions support this board by the way?


Good point. The progblem all these users dont understand is to get this project into a state of real usability would take YEARS or perhaps Forever.

I wish they would make it happen though as I'd love to have a new ppc card out there.

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HammerD 
Re: Wow! Simply WOW!
Posted on 28-May-2012 2:06:50
#47 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Oct-2003
Posts: 901
From: Ontario, Canada

@thread

I see alot of negative comments and naysayers here. Let's just let these guys work and get the card to market and then see what happens.

No one can argue that after all these years this is the farthest anyone has come to a new PPC card for Classics.

So give it a rest and give them the benefit of the doubt! Even if you aren't interested in it there is no reason why you should be negative. ANYTHING is possible so let's see what happens :)


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delshay 
Re: Wow! Simply WOW!
Posted on 28-May-2012 4:21:05
#48 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Sep-2008
Posts: 447
From: Unknown

@Framiga

Quote:

Framiga wrote:
@Franko

you are absolutely right. AmigaOS4.x is painful slow on a BPPC with its 32 bit memory and no scsi support.

On a CSPPC is all another matter! (and with this new toy, way better)






This card if and when released may show some real performance on classic,but I already posted in another thread Cyberstorm has no advantage with its 64bit memory. Its suppose to be faster and one will think so too.

Cyberstorm only has much better CPU than Blizzard,but a Blizzard can match or out perform the Cyberstorm not just in DRAM bandwidth but also in its local PCI slot.

Until this card is released,Blizzard holds world record for memory bandwidth on any classic amiga.

Last edited by delshay on 28-May-2012 at 05:02 AM.

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Plaz 
Re: Wow! Simply WOW!
Posted on 28-May-2012 4:25:46
#49 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Oct-2003
Posts: 1568
From: Atlanta

Quote:
Why are people wasting their time on pointless efforts like this? This is the third pointless effort since Sunday.


Did someone actually posting to and Amiga fan site really just say that?.... yes I guess they did.

Make this card at a price I can swing and I'll be happy to resurrect one of my 3K or 4K's.

The current PPC on the card PPC can't handle OS4? Big deal. It should be interesting to see if it could play AROS and Linux some day. Just the fact that it will give the classic network, sata, and other goodies make it worth a look.

Plaz

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Fairdinkem 
Re: Wow! Simply WOW!
Posted on 28-May-2012 5:43:58
#50 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Feb-2010
Posts: 485
From: Victoria, Australia

@Franko

If your ppc card is so useless to ya i'll gladly bare your burden you can give it to me I'm certain I can find good use for it.

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KimmoK 
Re: Wow! Simply WOW!
Posted on 28-May-2012 7:39:42
#51 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5188
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@Plaz

"Just the fact that it will give the classic network, sata, and other goodies make it worth a look. "

Not even those are easy to get working, because they are built in the P1013. You need to have SW running on the PPC to offer those services to 68k side, etc...

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itix 
Re: Wow! Simply WOW!
Posted on 28-May-2012 8:31:45
#52 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@KimmoK

Quote:

Not even those are easy to get working, because they are built in the P1013. You need to have SW running on the PPC to offer those services to 68k side, etc...


So they have to write their own PPC kernel.

But if drivers are running on the PPC side then you are going to have good old context switch issue and manually maintain a cache coherency.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Wow! Simply WOW!
Posted on 28-May-2012 9:51:30
#53 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11222
From: Norway

@itix

Is it rally any worse then having to send and receive data to and from ZorroIII/PCI interface, clockport or PCMICA interface?

Of cause its better to send a chunk of data and process that, then to send small packets.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 28-May-2012 at 09:57 AM.

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itix 
Re: Wow! Simply WOW!
Posted on 28-May-2012 10:25:35
#54 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@NutsAboutAmiga

There are no registers 68k CPU could access. All it can do is to ask PPC CPU to write/read data to/from I/O.

Because there is no cache coherency between the 68k and PPC cpu you must flush caches to keep data coherent on both CPUs. Because of different data alignment requirements you probably must copy data to temporary buffer before making available to I/O.

Of course they must write that pesky PPC kernel first.

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Crumb 
Re: Wow! Simply WOW!
Posted on 28-May-2012 10:28:37
#55 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Mar-2003
Posts: 2208
From: Zaragoza (Aragonian State)

@itix

They could "simply" remove 040 and use a Trance-like JIT to run everything. That way they could make it run several times faster than 060/50 and could even emulate missing 68882 instructions so it's more compatible than a real 060.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Wow! Simply WOW!
Posted on 28-May-2012 10:34:43
#56 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11222
From: Norway

@Crumb

Álmos Rajnai new JIT compiler is open source.

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itix 
Re: Wow! Simply WOW!
Posted on 28-May-2012 10:59:45
#57 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Crumb & NutsAboutAmiga

They could but they are still going to need PPC kernel where they run 68k emulation, manage interrupts and more. It can be done, it has been done, but who is going to make it happen again?

Using stripped down UAE could be working solution. Perhaps run it under Linux kernel.

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KimmoK 
Re: Wow! Simply WOW!
Posted on 28-May-2012 12:02:56
#58 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5188
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

It's a shame if P1013 and P1022 prove not to be usable.
They would be around 100eur chips with good performance:
h264 videoplayback demo: youtube basicly done by just one core.

Just refreshed my memory about AMCC offerings:
440ep as we know, no L2, but a FPU.
...
440SPe (256kL2, PCIex8, but NO FPU or built in graphics)
So, mainly, no FPU and L2 option there-> too slow to my liking.
460ex... looks similar. Not much to gain from what we already have.
460GT better PCIe but no SATA or USB onboard.
460GTx and SX have 512MB L2, PCIex8 etc, but NO FPU, no SATA, no USB.
86290 is better, but I do not see it available yet. Once I read it would be very cheap in 10000+ volumes, but no confirmation.
For new low end HW the best options seem 460ex and MPC6810 and 6810 already is about 2x more expensive than 460 or P1013/P1022.

Last edited by KimmoK on 28-May-2012 at 12:03 PM.

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Crumb 
Re: Wow! Simply WOW!
Posted on 28-May-2012 12:47:35
#59 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Mar-2003
Posts: 2208
From: Zaragoza (Aragonian State)

@itix

AROS-PPC kernel could do that

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itix 
Re: Wow! Simply WOW!
Posted on 28-May-2012 16:29:23
#60 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Crumb

Good point.

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