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clusteruk 
Re: Aros Broadway running on Raspberry Pi
Posted on 30-May-2012 17:20:05
#21 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2008
Posts: 1521
From: Marston Moretaine, England

Everyone is getting there Pi before me, goes and cries in corner......

Comes back, mine is shipping today

Franko, sorry but you need to learn C coding for Aros, and pretty much all Amiga systems these days. Kind of figured you would be a metal basher

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pertinaxone 
Re: Aros Broadway running on Raspberry Pi
Posted on 30-May-2012 20:46:46
#22 ]
Member
Joined: 8-May-2005
Posts: 38
From: Unknown

@TheDaddy

http://elinux.org/RPi_Hardware

Have a read through, then see how much power your keyboard and mouse draw...

HTH



Jason

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yoodoo2 
Re: Aros Broadway running on Raspberry Pi
Posted on 30-May-2012 22:58:58
#23 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Aug-2003
Posts: 1323
From: Stourbridge, UK

Pi arrived last Thursday.

Nice hardware, Debian squeeze is fine, but slowish (as expected). The software people have a lot to do in putting together a more friendly interface to the distro if the Pi is to succeed in its "education" aims.

AROS boots on the PI and seems to work ok, although I haven't had a chance to investigate what software is available yet. Next week is half term, though :)

I teach Computing and am a member of the Computing At School group, who have been pushing the computing agenda in the UK for some time. A key use for the PI for me will be to compare different OSs on the same hardware (eg RISCOS, Haiku and of course AROS). I will be mentioning AROS on the PI tomorrow.


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clusteruk 
Re: Aros Broadway running on Raspberry Pi
Posted on 30-May-2012 23:08:39
#24 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2008
Posts: 1521
From: Marston Moretaine, England

@yoodoo2

Perhaps you could join my Facebook group as it is growing quite nicely now, up to nearly 140 members.

http://www.facebook.com/groups/imica/

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Franko 
Re: Aros Broadway running on Raspberry Pi
Posted on 30-May-2012 23:26:13
#25 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jun-2010
Posts: 2809
From: Unknown

@clusteruk

Quote:

clusteruk wrote:

Franko, sorry but you need to learn C coding for Aros, and pretty much all Amiga systems these days. Kind of figured you would be a metal basher


Don't take this the wrong way (anybody) but the more I find out about AROS the more I wonder... what's the point in the thing then !!!

Seriously, I'm not bashing it I'm genuinely baffled now as to what AROS is meant to be and what it's all about as now I've been told I'd have to learn the worst programming language in the world "C" if i were to use it and wanted to write programmes for it...

I've always been under the impression that the whole point of AROS was to create a copyright free version of Kickstart so that it could put an end to all the issues concerning copyright with the Amigas kickstart for use in emulators or even hardware projects...

Now if that's what it is meant to be then it has failed badly if you can only code for it using C !!!

Perhaps I've missed the point of AROS (it sure looks like it) so could you please explain for me in simple terms what AROS really is meant to be and what if anything it has to do with the Amiga, cos I'm totally confused now on what AROS actually is...

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mihcael 
Re: Aros Broadway running on Raspberry Pi
Posted on 30-May-2012 23:32:18
#26 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Jan-2006
Posts: 92
From: I come from a land ...

@clusteruk

My Pi just got delivered!

It so cute, cant wait to test it!! :D

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michalsc 
Re: Aros Broadway running on Raspberry Pi
Posted on 31-May-2012 7:25:03
#27 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jun-2005
Posts: 257
From: Germany

@Franko

Quote:
Perhaps I've missed the point of AROS (it sure looks like it) so could you please explain for me in simple terms what AROS really is meant to be


why don't you just read about AROS on it's website?

Quote:
The AROS Research Operating System is a lightweight, efficient and flexible desktop operating system, designed to help you make the most of your computer. It's an independent, portable and free project, aiming at being compatible with AmigaOS at the API level (like Wine, unlike UAE), while improving on it in many areas. The source code is available under an open source license, which allows anyone to freely improve upon it.

Goals

The goals of the AROS project is it to create an OS which:

- Is as compatible as possible with AmigaOS 3.1.
- Can be ported to different kinds of hardware architectures and processors, such as x86, PowerPC, Alpha, Sparc, HPPA and other.
- Should be binary compatible on Amiga and source compatible on any other hardware.
- Can run as a standalone version which boots directly from hard disk and as an emulation which opens a window on an existing OS to develop software and run Amiga and native applications at the same time.
- Improves upon the functionality of AmigaOS.

To reach this goal, we use a number of techniques. First of all, we make heavy use of the Internet. You can participate in our project even if you can write only one single OS function. The most current version of the source is accessible 24 hours per day and patches can be merged into it at any time. A small database with open tasks makes sure work is not duplicated.

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Pleng 
Re: Aros Broadway running on Raspberry Pi
Posted on 31-May-2012 7:44:26
#28 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Nov-2005
Posts: 455
From: Unknown

@Franko

Quote:

Perhaps I've missed the point of AROS (it sure looks like it)


Given your love for (and presumably understanding of) ASM how could you have even thought it possible to write 68k Assembler code to work on an ARM CPU???

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clusteruk 
Re: Aros Broadway running on Raspberry Pi
Posted on 31-May-2012 8:30:35
#29 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2008
Posts: 1521
From: Marston Moretaine, England

@Pleng

+1

@Franko

C language the worst language in the world and you prefer assembler, ok

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Franko 
Re: Aros Broadway running on Raspberry Pi
Posted on 31-May-2012 10:49:43
#30 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jun-2010
Posts: 2809
From: Unknown

@Pleng

Quote:

Pleng wrote:
@Franko

Given your love for (and presumably understanding of) ASM how could you have even thought it possible to write 68k Assembler code to work on an ARM CPU???


Well considering that just a short time ago in a thread here I was checking out AROS on an A1200 then pray tell...

What kinda of magic is it that allows AROS to run on my A1200 (albeit not very fast) and yet now I am being told I wouldn't be able to code something in assembler for it and for some totally bizarre reason it will only understand programs coded in C !!!

Does AROS contain some crafty programming that looks through your code and detects whether it was coded in C or assembler (easy to do as if the code is sloppy & bloated then it's probably written in C) and then says "oooh I'm not going to run that, it's wriiten in assembler" !!!

PS: Haven't a scooby about what the native assembler language for an "ARM" cpu would be like as I've never owned one...

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Franko 
Re: Aros Broadway running on Raspberry Pi
Posted on 31-May-2012 10:56:17
#31 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jun-2010
Posts: 2809
From: Unknown

@clusteruk

Quote:

clusteruk wrote:

C language the worst language in the world and you prefer assembler, ok


And why is that crazy !!!

Just because you obviously like C still doesn't make it better than assembler...

The only thing crazy about your comment is the fact you obviously haven't a clue about the vast difference between coding in assembler which will produce better results than coding in C which is produces sloppy & bloated code (even with getting it to optimise it's code as best as it can)... that my friend is totally...

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: Aros Broadway running on Raspberry Pi
Posted on 31-May-2012 10:56:25
#32 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1749
From: Unknown

@Franko

You missunderstood it!

YOU can use your 68k Assembler code on AROS 68k. !!!!
BUT not 68k assembler on x86 or ARM builds of AROS..

why?

Assembler is machine dependend code...

x86 asm for x86

68k asm for 68k

and so on....

C is platform independent. The compiler makes asm code of it... sure not always as optimized as done from hand but sometimes even better....

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paolone 
Re: Aros Broadway running on Raspberry Pi
Posted on 31-May-2012 11:05:43
#33 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1035
From: Unknown

@Franko

Quote:
Does AROS contain some crafty programming that looks through your code and detects whether it was coded in C or assembler (easy to do as if the code is sloppy & bloated then it's probably written in C) and then says "oooh I'm not going to run that, it's wriiten in assembler" !!!


Please don't hurt your own intelligence: you can code a program in M68K assembler which will actually run on BOTH AmigaOS 3.x and AROS for M68K. But it will run on AmigaOS 3.x and AROS M68K ONLY (this means: on classic Amiga models and any AROS-compatible port of UAE).

Obviously, if you wish your code to work on ANY OTHER platform, you've either to code again the application in a compatible assembler for THAT platform. The meaning of C and any other interpreted/compiled high-level language is that you can write your source code once, and then compile it for any target platform.

Being able to share the same code and compile it on many platform targets is the aim of AROS and the importance of this goal should be really clear to anyone, even the most retro-geek of the Amiga purists. If you don't agree with this goal, or you consider it pointless, well, maybe AROS is not your fit, or this may be seen as the least important problem...

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clusteruk 
Re: Aros Broadway running on Raspberry Pi
Posted on 31-May-2012 11:41:01
#34 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2008
Posts: 1521
From: Marston Moretaine, England

@Franko

I use C#.net, but I am guessing most languages in the world used by most people evolved from or were inspired by C which is a great language, if sometimes a bit tricky to get into, hence me preferring C# which is a merging of C and Java ish.

Yes Assembler gives more control and finer tuning and smaller coding maybe for the specific projects that need it. However, I also make a living from coding and I would not get paid much with the extra effort in writing in assembler. Sometimes people just like to wear the "I am an assembler coder" badge but no one is impressed by that today, although it is a good to back up your skill set.

Enjoy your assembler but please do not make statements like that about one of the most important pieces of software ever written.

Finally I would like to see how long it would take you to write a document management system like the one I wrote in Assembler if it was possible at all which I doubt.

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Daedalus 
Re: Aros Broadway running on Raspberry Pi
Posted on 31-May-2012 11:49:25
#35 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 1675
From: Glasgow - UK, Irish born

@TheDaddy

Well, if you use devices which require very little power then you're probably fine to use two of them. However, after reading that link that someone else put up, it looks like they're only limited by the power supply to the board. Have you tried just the keyboard attached, or another keyboard?

A friend of mine is running his off a standard Samsung phone charger. I don't know the rating, but he is using a powered USB hub for connecting his keyboard as it was unreliable when connected directly.

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Franko 
Re: Aros Broadway running on Raspberry Pi
Posted on 31-May-2012 11:56:52
#36 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jun-2010
Posts: 2809
From: Unknown

@phoenixkonsole

Quote:
YOU can use your 68k Assembler code on AROS 68k. !!!!

Thought as much...

Quote:
BUT not 68k assembler on x86 or ARM builds of AROS..


Right, this is where I don't get the point of AROS then and it's connection to the Amiga...

If AROS written for x86 or ARM is supposed to be basically like having an Amiga OS but running on hardware that uses ARM or X86 CPU's then this is where I get genuinely lost... for the simple reasons being...

If AROS running on ARM or x86 hardware CAN'T understand 68k assembler code then how on earth do you run all the real Amiga software ever written if AROS can't handle the 68k Code in which that all that software is written in...

Which in turn makes me wonder what AROS has to do with the Amiga when used on one of the CPU's you mention and it can't understand any of the code which Amiga software is written in...

Put it this way... for AROS to be of any use to me it has to be able to run all my old Amiga software and I have to be able to write my own programmes in 68K that will run under it, because If I can't do that on it then it's not got anything to do with the Amiga then to me...

I can't explain it any clearer than that and despite the useless replies from some, I would just like ask for someone to explain please what if anything would make using AROS be to someone like me...

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clusteruk 
Re: Aros Broadway running on Raspberry Pi
Posted on 31-May-2012 12:08:41
#37 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2008
Posts: 1521
From: Marston Moretaine, England

@Franko

You do realise that Amiga OS was MOSTLY written in C to make it portable to other chip architectures. There is a lot of assembler to help due to low power CPU's at the time but that was being replaced over time with C.

Now even Commodore tried to stop people writing in assembler and hitting the hardware so that it would work well on later OS versions which were not guaranteed to run on 68k, it just happened that Commodore died before moving to another chip which they WOULD HAVE.

If you were a coder back in the day you would remember this and the discussions trying to get developers to write in a system friendly way, (Not that your code is not, a but a lot was.)

The Amiga was designed to be moveable to another processor architecture and so Aros is just continuing that philosophy and actually DOING it.

Just because you were not privy to what was going on in the past, some of us were.

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Franko 
Re: Aros Broadway running on Raspberry Pi
Posted on 31-May-2012 12:16:38
#38 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jun-2010
Posts: 2809
From: Unknown

@clusteruk

Quote:

clusteruk wrote:
@Franko

Sometimes people just like to wear the "I am an assembler coder" badge but no one is impressed by that today, although it is a good to back up your skill set.


Sigh... you don't get it do you... :(

When I talk about assembler or C I only speak about it on the Amiga, I don't care about any other type of PC and what people use to write software on them as they are of no interest to me and I don't use or purchase software for them...

You may be one of those who thinks that just because you can write computer software be it in assembler or C that somehow that makes you better than everyone else who uses a computer but I don't...

Being a programmer is nothing to boast about but obviously you think it is with the following comment...

Quote:
Finally I would like to see how long it would take you to write a document management system like the one I wrote in Assembler if it was possible at all which I doubt.


What a pathetic smarmy and absurd claim...

As you obviously know nothing about me or any of the code I've written over the past 26 years in assembler for the Amiga. It is now blatantly obvious that you're one of the very types you were whining about here and don't have the brains to realise it...

PS: And when did you last write DVD burning and ripping utils in assembler for the Amiga and how long did that take you to do... most likely never and don't doubt that...

If it's all about boasting to you and somehow thinking you're better than everyone else when it comes to the Amiga, then sadly you are delusional mate and really need to come off your pedestal and realise neither you, I or anyone here are anything special in what is after all nothing more than a hobby...

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clusteruk 
Re: Aros Broadway running on Raspberry Pi
Posted on 31-May-2012 12:16:48
#39 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2008
Posts: 1521
From: Marston Moretaine, England


Back on subject, my Pi has arrived.

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clusteruk 
Re: Aros Broadway running on Raspberry Pi
Posted on 31-May-2012 12:21:13
#40 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2008
Posts: 1521
From: Marston Moretaine, England

@Franko

Sorry if you perceive me as boasting, I do not believe I did but thanks for twisting it, I just want to defend a great programming tool.

I never have considered myself a real coder, anybody will tell you that, I know real coders and have worked with them for many years and have utmost respect for them, my point is that Assembler has it place but not for 98% of development and C is not that bloated.

Lets move on with this now shall we.

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