@NutsAboutAmiga

You imply that that clusteruk shared secret information of AOS4.x, by entering the beta testing course, to a rival company?

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Bullshit! ClusterUK knows perfectly well what a NDA means...

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@NutsAboutAmiga

there is another thread where clusteruk explained what happened. It seems that the main problem were the icons and not "secret informations".

@ssolie

Quote:

Don't clone the AmigaOS interface on AROS and approach a 3rd party without at least asking stakeholders if that is a good idea first. AROS itself is not the problem here.

Could you please clarify who the "stakeholders" are and why would a clone need to ask?

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Dammy

@damocles

Quote:

Could you please clarify who the "stakeholders" are and why would a clone need to ask?

because no matter how good your intentions you cannot copy the look and feel of a commercial operating system without permission. period. steve had a nice idea, but he can't be upset when the people who own the GUI elements he wants to use say, 'no thanks.' that's their right. it may not be the nice thing to do, but it's their right.

-- eliyahu

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@eliyahu

+1

From my view it is a little shortsighted because it might have been good promotion but it is their right. And I still do not understand why it was so important for Steve that he dropped the project after not being allowed to.

@OlafS25

i agree too, but if os4 icons are not allowed on aros there is no point to defining common icon standards. this just evidently puts on a display what a farce it is and that there is no accordance between words and actions. sad.

@wawa

gotta disagree here. having a common icon standard lets artists and users use the icons they prefer. so that's a useful idea. but another OS copying the icons of a third-party commercial OS without permission is another matter entirely. cooperation doesn't mean 'hyperion must give us everything we want or else.' it means finding areas where working together makes sense, both in terms of development goals and -- at least in hyperion's case -- commercial interests.

ssolie already gave two examples where cooperation makes sense. standards development is exactly where cooperation should be. in the commercial world we typically don't share implementation specifics or code, but we do come together on standards. samsung and micron don't share their DRAM 'recipes' with each other, but everyone sits down at JEDEC and hammers out standards and roadmaps.

that model would work well for us; not everyone open up their code or everyone adopt AROS or everyone work on one hardware model, etc. at least this is my view.

-- eliyahu

Last edited by eliyahu on 28-Oct-2012 at 02:09 PM.

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"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

@eliyahu


Bullcrap .. You most certainly can clone the look and feel of a commercial Operating system. See reactos. and you can clone the API's see oracle vs google.


PS. Apple vs Samsung is still in appeals so don't bother quoting the outcome of that case. (It was a patent case btw)

Last edited by terminills on 28-Oct-2012 at 02:12 PM.

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"AROS is prolly illegal ~ Evert Carton" intentionally quoted out of context for dramatic effect

@eliyahu

Quote:

because no matter how good your intentions you cannot copy the look and feel of a commercial operating system without permission. period.

UK or EU citation needed, please.

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Dammy

@terminills

published APIs are one thing. since US v microsoft its been understood that if you publish API documentation, others can implement a runtime without consequence. copyrighted artwork is another matter.

the only reason reactOS gets away with it is because microsoft can't be bothered.

anyway i'm not necessarily agreeing with hyperion's decision to say 'no' to steve's idea, but they have every right to do so. in any case AROS doesn't need to be aping the look and feel of AmigaOS. they have their own themes from artists in the AROS community. use those and everyone is happy.

-- eliyahu

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"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

@eliyahu

Quote:

but another OS copying the icons of a third-party commercial OS without permission is another matter entirely.

so far i understand clusteruk has used os4-*style* (!) icons with the permission of the artists, not the os4 icons as such. btw as far as i remember mason's icons that are ones used by os4 afaik are third party contribution, that is at least available for 68k as well. in this recpect i dont know what kind of agreement between mason and hyperion has been met, but it doesnt seem that os4 has an exclusive right to use aiss:
http://aminet.net/util/misc/aiss46.lha

correct me if im wrong, please.

@Cool_amigaN

“deal had been agreed there was to be a substantial amount of money made”

Even worst if Clusteruk made money on stolen graphics.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

Even worst if Clusteruk made money on stolen graphics.

Care to point out what was stolen? Or do you just enjoy making libel comments?

Last edited by damocles on 28-Oct-2012 at 02:19 PM.

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Dammy

@eliyahu

actually they ended up paying linspire millions of $ for that type of case. ;)

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"AROS is prolly illegal ~ Evert Carton" intentionally quoted out of context for dramatic effect

@damocles

Quote:

UK or EU citation needed, please.

that's actually a good point. in the US it's been accepted that artwork associated with software is copyrighted material. dunno about the situation in europe. it may different there, especially considering they're usually more liberal on copyright matters. does you know what the story is in the EU by any chance?

i still think before taking someone's work you should at least ask permission, legality aside.

-- eliyahu

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"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

@terminills

You beat me to it,lol

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@eliyahu

Quote:

i still think before taking someone's work you should at least ask permission, legality aside.

Exactly what code was taken without permission?

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Dammy

@eliyahu


and in the UK it was determined it was not. And to cite the Apple vs Samsung case Apple was ordered to make a public apology to Samsung.

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"AROS is prolly illegal ~ Evert Carton" intentionally quoted out of context for dramatic effect

Legally speaking (and I like OS4 as much as anyone), they cannot stop AROS or anyone else mimicking the style of OS4. I can say this confidently, because there are many, many cases in the past of people mimicking Windows - especially 3.1. When '95 came out, it was more usual for things to be written for Windows, but before then, many apps mimicked Windows 3.11. I had a 486 with an AmiBIOS for instance, that was similar. I also ran recently the Intel ICU and that was made to look like Windows... and Microsoft at the time were one of the most litigious companies out there.

If Hyperion patented the icon style, they might be able to stop people - but I believe the icons were also available elsewhere for 3.x - so that has prior art. Plus there's is bound to be another case of arguably similar icons in the past in the myriad of less well-known OSes.

Generally speaking, I'm rather pro-OS4 - but in this case I believe AROS should be allowed to mimic the iconset as long as they don't distribute the actual icons, and I believe that is the case.