Bashing and trolling and bashing and trolling.....
Never ending story...............

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Amiga600/Vampire2/PrismaMegaMix

@cha05e90
Quote:

Bad example - *all* of those weren't "copies" but have been paid for and officially licensed.

point taken. even if im not sure about pobieda. may have been some part of lend and lease deal. however: car analogies.. yawn...

Last edited by wawa on 30-Oct-2012 at 12:16 PM.

@tommysammy

yup. i sometimes wonder if people this negative and aggressive actually use their choice of platform that much or whether they prefer spending their time attacking the other choice(s). allowing the same people to harp on and on and on and on with the same arguments and approach in every OS4 thread has started to ruin this place. utterly. we're only a couple of steps away from amiga.org at this point. didn't we get new mods to avoid exactly this kind of thing from recurring all of the time?

i highly encourage folks not to feed the jackasses and participate in more positive threads instead when things go downhill like this. i might also suggest a different moderation tack, but the last person to do that got their thread locked. steve doesn't deserve the bull**** in this thread, and the jackasses have been allowed to succeed. very, very disappointing.

-- eliyahu

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"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

@eliyahu

now, exactly who were the "jackasses" in this thread? for one i think this thread has concerned us all, and not only current os4 users, in particular what concerns statements about cooperation. i tried to detach this subject into separate thread not to mix everything together, but this obviously without success. however all in all, considering things that came to light i think the result is that we know more about the actual standpoints at least of some invoilved. the conclusions from this may not be definite and everybody has to draw his own. this said, i think its better to step forward with things even if unpleasant, rather than leaving them stink in the dark.

@eliyahu

Quote:

eliyahu wrote: [...] didn't we get new mods to avoid exactly this kind of thing from recurring all of the time? [...]

I think you got issues if you believe this.

Quote:

eliyahu wrote: [...] i might also suggest a different moderation tack, but the last person to do that got their thread locked. [...]

May I remind you that there is a forum for people that can't handle the truth and leave in a delusional heaven by systematically avoiding reality? Well, some people also call "the friendly" OS4.x. forum.

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@eliyahu

the mods cannot delete every negativ posting if someone from Hyperion is involved. Better ignore the postings...

And if someone describes events from his view is that "trolling, bashing"? Where do you set the limit?

I personal hope there will be working together (f.e. setting common standards) and not negative comments against each other. But that will not mean that everyone automatically cheers Hyperion. This lasted too long to be over from one point to another.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 30-Oct-2012 at 02:27 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 30-Oct-2012 at 02:23 PM.

@tommysammy

Quote:

tommysammy wrote: Bashing and trolling and bashing and trolling..... Never ending story...............

Ooooh... sounds like "The Hobbit" have you had a sneak preview...

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@thread

Continuing my summary of what I have found from net (this time from amigans.net)

from Ssolie:
As we discussed at AmiWest, I plan to publish an AmigaOS road map of sorts at some point which will include a list of features we want in 4.2 and future releases. I still need permission from the stakeholders but I think they will agree to the idea.

Why no HD4000 support for Warp3D:
-Warp3D port is funded for Evergreen chipset, so HD4000 series would need more funding
-HD4000 series are no longer produced and not available as "new"
-HD4000 series is planned to be supported by Gallium3D (gallium3D will support all modern HD cards one day)
-AOS4.2 will have Gallium3D
-HD5000 series cards are cheap
-next A-Eon projects will have Evergreen chipset GPU

Amigakit said:
"There are limited funds for drivers, A-EON is now being run as a business where every cost needs to be balanced and funds targetted to future/available technology. The Radeon HD 4000 series is not available in mainstream retail for the last six months and is no longer manufactured. 5000 and 6000 series are now the standard cards and they will feature in future A-EON projects and therefore software support is critical."

from Hans:
"I don't think that Warp3D drivers for Radeon HD cards would have happened without A-EON funding it. The focus has been on porting MESA+Gallium, and that work has been ongoing for a while."

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK

Again we see the problem with only low end cards in this series available.
Plenty of HD5450's and a few HD5550's or HD5570's with quad monitor ports.
the 6570 and 6670 are a plenty. Low end again.
For the High end dual slot 6xxx models the X1000 are ok but the Sam460ex has Uboot issues and you have to give up the PCI slot if you can get the card to work.
A few single slot 6770's and 6850's exist but are hard to find. 6770's dont work in the Sam460ex at the moment not sure about the 6850's.

Quote:

-HD5000 series cards are cheap

Last edited by Spectre660 on 31-Oct-2012 at 11:00 AM.
Last edited by Spectre660 on 31-Oct-2012 at 10:43 AM.

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@KimmoK

Quote:

-HD4000 series is planned to be supported by Gallium3D (gallium3D will support all modern HD cards one day)

in fact i dont know why it gets constantly mixed up but gallium and warp3d are two different things. having warp3d of course doesnt mean having mesa/gallium but also having mesa/gallium doesnt mean having wazp3d functionality automatically as some seem to assume.

many have probably taken for granted, gallium will include some sort of warp3d wrapper for backward compatibility (like it is apparently done on aros implementation of gallium/wazp3d). the truth is, it has never been literally mentioned till aeon stepped ahead funding warp3d for a choice of gfx cards at last amiwest. this is apparently one of those things when users left in the dark when it comes to actual information tend to absolutely wild guesses in favour of what they wish, take them for facts and eventually get disappointed.

what i see now is two independent projects: gallim by hyperion and warp3d by aeon (even if the same developers were involved, which is likely, because who else has the adequate knowledge and the sources?). these projects do not depend on each other or cross refer in any other way. progress on one has no impact on the other. this is of corse a little strange because the easiest path forward id imagine (as a noob) would be to implement gallium and then to implement warp3d wrapper on top of it rather than implementing concurring independent hardware acceleratiion backends two times in a row.

that lets me assume (and i want to stress that it is an assumption!) that the only reason i can imagine is that aeon (as currently the driving force behind os4 development) has taken this action seeing prograss on gallium inapropriate and wanting to give their customers some practical interim 3d hardware acceleration solution in a short term before gallium is going to be completed.

now prove me wrong;)

Last edited by wawa on 31-Oct-2012 at 11:17 AM.
Last edited by wawa on 31-Oct-2012 at 11:17 AM.

@KimmoK
Quote:

Why no HD4000 support for Warp3D:...

Too bad I followed this, hm, semi-official advice and got a 4650 about 1.75 years ago.

How time flies! That were the days when I got a same460ex plus 4650 and was told that this great gfx-driver would be completed (for free) in short time. Looks like that 4650 will be the most useless piece of hardware I ever bought (removed it from that 460 quickly when I felt that it'll take a bit longer until one could expect hw-acceleration here, pretty dusty and rusty that card now).

Well, lesson learned. Nothing is certain in amiga-land

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AmigaOS 4.1 FE (sam460ex Radeon 9200 / RadeonHD), MorphOS 3.8 (PowerMac G4 733MHz Radeon 9000), AROS (x86), A1200 (060 80MHz Indivision MK2), A500, A600, CDTV
Wings Remastered Development Diary

@Daytona675x

There is now the Aros version for 460 now. In Aros Mesa/Gallium is included, I do not know how good all is supported yet (drivers). Or you can wait for 4.2. that is promised to have full driver support and Mesa/Gallium. But as you said everything can change...

Warp3D drivers is paid by Trevor and a completely different project.

The "advice" propably was about 4.2. and Mesa/Gallium.

@wawa

+1

Of course Warp3D drivers is a shortterm "quick-fix" for the missing 3D support and would not be started when Mesa/Gallium support would be available in the short-term (next months). My personal guess...

Last edited by OlafS25 on 31-Oct-2012 at 11:37 AM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 31-Oct-2012 at 11:35 AM.

@wawa


http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?post_id=74616#forumpost74616

Also the wrapper option is possible.
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=36695&forum=16&start=180&viewmode=flat&order=0#686476

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@Spectre660

here from one of the "Frieden brothers" (what I already assumed):

"Again, what is your point? Yes, Warp3D support for these cards was never planned. Yes, due to delays with the OS A-Eon decided to fund these drivers as a stop-gap solution."

And I draw the conclusion that 4.2. is at least a couple of months away

Last edited by OlafS25 on 31-Oct-2012 at 11:46 AM.

@OlafS25


I was pointing you to the post so that you could congratulate yourself .
First confirmation of a delay in OS 4.2 .

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: @Spectre660 here from one of the "Frieden brothers" (what I already assumed): "Again, what is your point? Yes, Warp3D support for these cards was never planned. Yes, due to delays with the OS A-Eon decided to fund these drivers as a stop-gap solution." And I draw the conclusion that 4.2. is at least a couple of months away

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@Spectre660

thanx

It was the only logical conclusion when I heard of special Warp3D drivers (at Amiwest)

@OlafS25

It may not be a bad thing as Hyperion could find ways to tweak Warp3D for 9200 cards
while they do the Radeon HD work.if so this could help Peg 2 users under 4.2 with a wrapper.



Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: @Spectre660 thanx It was the only logical conclusion when I heard of special Warp3D drivers (at Amiwest)

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@Spectre660

Quote:

http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?post_id=74616#forumpost74616

hard to dig through that all, but the general conclusion is somewhere around "we are not obliged to communicate anything to you whatever will be done, when it will be done, how it will be done nor who will do that". actually not telling much. again "transparency" towards customers is lacking here which as we see leads to missunderstandings, actually damaging the effort.

on thing i have to comment on is public betatesting, as we actually have it on aros. i dont see it leading to problems. sure there is "noise", im one of those who produce that "noise". but "noise" can contain useful information if you know how to extract it. arrarently aros devs do. and i in my integrity try to keep my "noise" down as much as possible..

Quote:

Also the wrapper option is possible. http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=36695&forum=16&start=180&viewmode=flat&order=0#686476

of course w3d wrapper is possible. what else have i said? only doing it two times is inconsistent and ineffective. thus it looks like the efforts are not synchronized in fact wasting further resources.

@Spectre660

Quote:

First confirmation of a delay in OS 4.2 .

wasnt really hard to guess..

@wawa/Spectre660

What delay? When was the release date which is "delayed" now?

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