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/  Forum Index
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      /  Getting serious about Printing
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Jupp3 
Re: Getting serious about Printing
Posted on 3-Jul-2013 15:46:23
#141 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1225
From: Unknown

@paolone

Fair enough. I did say that I'd think the effort would be better spent elsewhere. It was (and still is) my personal opinion, and I think I am allowed to say that.

However, the main point was about people complaining about "no serious printer support" aka "My cheap (until cartridge change) HP inkjet doesn't work".

What's common with graphics cards, sound cards, USB joysticks, scanners and printers?

Yes, we can currently get ALL of them working. As long as we pick one that is supported, that is. Is it really wrong trying to push some of the responsibility (of buying a supported model) to the end user?

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OlafS25 
Re: Getting serious about Printing
Posted on 3-Jul-2013 15:49:49
#142 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@Jupp3

no problem. Then write some drivers. Everyone would appreciate it

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Chris_Y 
Re: Getting serious about Printing
Posted on 3-Jul-2013 17:25:53
#143 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2003
Posts: 3203
From: Beds, UK

@Jupp3

It's not exactly the same thing. Most people have a printer already, and they want to use their existing printer with OS4. With graphics cards, sound cards etc, you have to have one per machine - it's no problem to go and get one specially. Nobody really wants to have two printers lying around - they take up too much space, and need (expensive) toner cartridges. I don't think you can compare, really.

Most printers support some form of PCL or PS - the standard drivers work in a lot of cases for new printers (cheapo inkjets excepted). Whether they work well is another matter.

Last edited by Chris_Y on 03-Jul-2013 at 05:28 PM.
Last edited by Chris_Y on 03-Jul-2013 at 05:27 PM.

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Avatar is Tabitha by Eric W Schwartz

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Jupp3 
Re: Getting serious about Printing
Posted on 3-Jul-2013 17:49:51
#144 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1225
From: Unknown

@Chris_Y
Quote:
It's not exactly the same thing. Most people have a printer already

Why does someone have a printer before buying a (OS4) computer? That's right, because he already has a computer that he uses it with, likely windows / linux / mac, something that "already works".

When such a person gets an OS4 machine, he will likely want to keep being able to print from other systems aswell - and shuffling cables can be frustrating, so like I said, they can set up network printing
Quote:
and they want to use their existing printer with OS4. With graphics cards, sound cards etc, you have to have one per machine - it's no problem to go and get one specially.

Actually there are similarities. On MorphOS, many users buy a machine which comes with NVidia gfx card (which needs to be replaced with Radeon), and I'm pretty sure many OS4 users had many "unsuitable but elecrically compatible" gfx cards lying around when getting OS4 system.

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wawa 
Re: Getting serious about Printing
Posted on 3-Jul-2013 17:54:04
#145 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@Jupp3

as is said. terminills is providing his work under free terms, for all amiga derivates, since he is an apparently an open source and aros fan. if he has been paid to do anything ( and did not deliver in time) you might have objections about what he is doing. now, we understood your opinion and some of us share it, still terminills is free to do what he likes and can. understand now?

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Manu 
Re: Getting serious about Printing
Posted on 3-Jul-2013 19:44:02
#146 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Feb-2004
Posts: 1561
From: Unknown

Get of Terminills back or you ALL will have deal with me !



Keep up the good work Tim.

_________________
AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

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Jupp3 
Re: Getting serious about Printing
Posted on 3-Jul-2013 19:59:06
#147 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1225
From: Unknown

@wawa

Quote:
as is said. terminills is providing his work under free terms, for all amiga derivates, since he is an apparently an open source and aros fan. if he has been paid to do anything ( and did not deliver in time) you might have objections about what he is doing. now, we understood your opinion and some of us share it, still terminills is free to do what he likes and can. understand now?

I never objected what he was doing. Just expressed my opinion, that I don't regard that important.

What I do not understand, is how some users (excluding terminills) try to make this (lack of cheap inkjet drivers) into a huge problem, which I fail to see. understand now?

-EDIT-

Perhaps we could use this to benefit marketing?

Something like... "Save trees, use AmigaOS4!"

Last edited by Jupp3 on 03-Jul-2013 at 08:01 PM.

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paolone 
Re: Getting serious about Printing
Posted on 3-Jul-2013 21:47:59
#148 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1143
From: Unknown

@Jupp3

Quote:
I never objected what he was doing. Just expressed my opinion, that I don't regard that important.


Ok Jupp3, since I believe you didn't get the point, here is an amusing exercise for you.

Next time you wife (girlfriend, etc) asks you if that ugly, unpleasant dress she's wearing is making her appear fat, tell her the truth.

You will understand why, some times, you have to keep your opinion for yourself.

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OlafS25 
Re: Getting serious about Printing
Posted on 3-Jul-2013 22:06:23
#149 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@Jupp3

Sometimes "Amigans" love the drama

there is someone "wasting his time" developing something a lot of people appreciate, doing it for all in his free time without payment (without requesting a bounty what is so popular in other known camp(s))

So (except him loosing his time) nobody has to invest anything it. So where is the problem? Expecially for you? What are you loosing by it? You are not interested in it? Fine then do not use it.

BTW Gutenprint is not only known in Linux world, it is also used on Haiku.

And you are MorphOS user as far as I know? Why do you care how AROS/AmigaOS/68k developer waste their time?

Last edited by OlafS25 on 03-Jul-2013 at 10:09 PM.

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Jupp3 
Re: Getting serious about Printing
Posted on 3-Jul-2013 22:28:44
#150 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1225
From: Unknown

@paolone

Quote:
Next time you wife (girlfriend, etc) asks you if that ugly, unpleasant dress she's wearing is making her appear fat, tell her the truth.

It's more like going to a trip with a wife, then wife (user with cheap inkjet, not terminills) panics that she forgot that "cheap dress that almost fits" (crap cheap inkjet that cannot be used currently directly), but luckily, our friend (terminills) can perhaps bring it a few days later. Anyway, I tell her "Don't worry dear, I'll buy you a better dress immediately." (cheap ps-compatible laser printer).

Do I mind the friend bringing the suit? No.

@OlafS25
Quote:
So (except him loosing his time) nobody has to invest anything it. So where is the problem?

Problem is with some users. Either they:
1)Don't know that many modern printers (especially more "serious" ones) already work out of the box.
2)Don't know that the non-working ones can be set as network printers (if you have some "mostly on" linux/windows/mac system)
3)They have cheap printer, and they don't want (or can't) set up network printing via other system, or upgrade their printer.

I think 1) and 2), while kind of "off-topic", are worth mentioning here, as some users simply "might not have known that"

Quote:
Expecially for you? What are you loosing by it? You are not interested in it? Fine then do not use it.

I'm interested why so many people see this as a problem, and mention 2 "already working" solutions.

Quote:
And you are MorphOS user as far as I know? Why do you care how AROS/AmigaOS/68k developer waste their time?

The post was more about users not about developer.

About wasting time, users don't necessarily have to waste their time, if they can already get printing working on a modern printer?

On the other hand (if going more on-topic for a while), the port MIGHT bring some "other goodies", and even if many serious printers work, they might also benefit from this (color control, paper selection whatever, no idea what OS4 supports currently)

Also, this might "imago-wise" benefit AROS, as they're already getting other widely used open source projects ported over (Gallium3D for example), and might get more visibility.

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OlafS25 
Re: Getting serious about Printing
Posted on 3-Jul-2013 22:38:32
#151 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@Jupp3

Yes but Gutenprint is not about "serious users" who know already everything and have decades of experience and expensive equipment but about bringing the average user driver-support. The expert might already have find ways to print or owns equipment that worked but the nice thing is to bring printer-support to average users with average printers who might be tempted to use AROS (or AmigaOS) then more frequently.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 03-Jul-2013 at 10:39 PM.

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Chris_Y 
Re: Getting serious about Printing
Posted on 3-Jul-2013 22:58:12
#152 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2003
Posts: 3203
From: Beds, UK

@Jupp3

Quote:
When such a person gets an OS4 machine, he will likely want to keep being able to print from other systems aswell - and shuffling cables can be frustrating, so like I said, they can set up network printing


Erm, yeah, you still need drivers for that.

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"Miracles we do at once, the impossible takes a little longer" - AJS on Hyperion
Avatar is Tabitha by Eric W Schwartz

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Frostwolf 
Re: Getting serious about Printing
Posted on 3-Jul-2013 23:14:54
#153 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 112
From: Alabama

I work for a Konica Minolta dealer. I have access to Linux drivers for almost all of our machines. However, during the testing phase of setup, I use an hp 5si (PCL)driver to test all of our machines. The generic ps driver also works on most of our machines.

I would be willing to setup a machine to test with ipp printing if it helps. Dunno if anyone can get os4 to print over the internet using ipp.

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“Wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair and all the terrible things that happen to us, come because actually deserve them? So now I take comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the Universe”

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Jupp3 
Re: Getting serious about Printing
Posted on 3-Jul-2013 23:36:20
#154 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1225
From: Unknown

@Chris_Y

Quote:
Erm, yeah, you still need drivers for that.

Sorry, I didn't know that OS4 lacks network printer drivers (MorphOS has). Now I know.

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eliyahu 
Re: Getting serious about Printing
Posted on 3-Jul-2013 23:53:14
#155 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1957
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@Jupp3

Quote:
Sorry, I didn't know that OS4 lacks network printer drivers (MorphOS has). Now I know.

not built-in to the OS, no. although there are third-party solutions such as lpr.device and netprinter.device, both of which work quite well. i also believe chris is working on a solution for printing via IPP.

-- eliyahu

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Chris_Y 
Re: Getting serious about Printing
Posted on 4-Jul-2013 9:06:10
#156 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2003
Posts: 3203
From: Beds, UK

@Jupp3

That's not what I meant. There are (third party, mind) drivers for LPR and IPP (and others?)
However regardless of the connection type, you still need a driver for the actual printer, unless you connect it up to a CUPS server (in which case you can, and should, use the PostScript driver).

_________________
"Miracles we do at once, the impossible takes a little longer" - AJS on Hyperion
Avatar is Tabitha by Eric W Schwartz

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Chris_Y 
Re: Getting serious about Printing
Posted on 4-Jul-2013 9:09:41
#157 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2003
Posts: 3203
From: Beds, UK

Quote:

Frostwolf wrote:

I would be willing to setup a machine to test with ipp printing if it helps. Dunno if anyone can get os4 to print over the internet using ipp.


Quote:

eliyahu wrote:

I also believe chris is working on a solution for printing via IPP.


It's here: http://www.unsatisfactorysoftware.co.uk/download.php?file=ipp_dev

Works fine for me printing to a printer via a CUPS server. I have neither tried nor had any reports of successes or failures in any other configuration.

_________________
"Miracles we do at once, the impossible takes a little longer" - AJS on Hyperion
Avatar is Tabitha by Eric W Schwartz

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Jupp3 
Re: Getting serious about Printing
Posted on 4-Jul-2013 11:05:34
#158 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1225
From: Unknown

@Chris_Y

Quote:
That's not what I meant. There are (third party, mind) drivers for LPR and IPP (and others?)

And these drivers will be "very 3rd party", except on AROS probably.

Never understood the big deal with "3rd party" though. Didn't we Amiga users use to be proud of how we can f.ex. replace some system component with 3rd party equivalent?
Quote:
However regardless of the connection type, you still need a driver for the actual printer, unless you connect it up to a CUPS server (in which case you can, and should, use the PostScript driver).

...And that's exactly what I meant.

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Chris_Y 
Re: Getting serious about Printing
Posted on 4-Jul-2013 19:02:26
#159 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2003
Posts: 3203
From: Beds, UK

@Jupp3

Quote:

Never understood the big deal with "3rd party" though. Didn't we Amiga users use to be proud of how we can f.ex. replace some system component with 3rd party equivalent?


I don't have a problem with 3rd party stuff, as long as it works. I was just emphasising that they weren't part of the base OS4 install.

Quote:

Quote:
However regardless of the connection type, you still need a driver for the actual printer, unless you connect it up to a CUPS server (in which case you can, and should, use the PostScript driver).

...And that's exactly what I meant.


Right, well, you're seriously narrowing down your audience there. Apparently Amiga owners are required to buy a Linux computer before they can print. Yeah, ok, that's going to go down well.

I do actually use Linux+CUPS as a print server (it's the reason I wrote ipp.device), but I don't expect others to do that, and I think it's likely to be an abnormal case.

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"Miracles we do at once, the impossible takes a little longer" - AJS on Hyperion
Avatar is Tabitha by Eric W Schwartz

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Jupp3 
Re: Getting serious about Printing
Posted on 10-Jul-2013 9:44:24
#160 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1225
From: Unknown

@Chris_Y

Quote:
I don't have a problem with 3rd party stuff, as long as it works. I was just emphasising that they weren't part of the base OS4 install.

I have seen enough "first party" non-working stuff and working 3rd party stuff that I have stopped caring which ever it is

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