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      /  UltimatePPC - year after
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tlosm 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 18-Jun-2013 19:35:32
#81 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2746
From: Amiga land

@blizz1220

i will win something ? 8)

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A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
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Comi 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 18-Jun-2013 19:45:14
#82 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2003
Posts: 660
From: Zlatibor, Serbia



UltimatePPC ...remember?

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tlosm 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 18-Jun-2013 19:58:40
#83 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2746
From: Amiga land

@Comi

dont need it i have my CyberstormPPC68060@66 604e@366mhz :P
can i swap with an X1000 :)

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A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
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MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
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vox 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 18-Jun-2013 20:22:50
#84 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3731
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@blizz1220
Oh my God, number of Serb Amigans is constantly raising here

Sorry for my bad English at moment - it sounded like infamous
joke of "loving humans and blacks"

@Comi

Just noticed Troels once upon a time had a same idea as you do.

http://www.amigabounty.net/?function=viewproject&projectid=94

Maybe you could benefit from his experience. If its highly unlikely to have
UltimatePPC but why not that FPGA Based A600 accel.?

On the other hand, its interesting to see FPGA systems have been quite popular.

@wawa

Not that I would not like to see it coming, but seems obstacles were quite big on this one.

@blizz1220

Quote:
Yes well what he said is that OS4 users are like a sect ... I myself would call you zealots ... or even better talibans ... There is only few people who still post on Amiga forums that actually know how all Amiga SW and HW work and have full and complete understanding of Amiga OS. Cdimauro is one of these people , Toni Wielen is one of these people , Piru Sintonen is one of these people.Without such people you will soon end up like the proud DoDo birds


Well, in fact any Amigan in 2013, even Classic lover is a bit of Zealot.
But I do really dislike fighting among AROS/MOS/OS4. By now we know most of pros and cons.

Surely Piru is higly knowledgeable, but what can we do not everybody is a programmer.
Examples like DJ Rikki or DJ Nicks design of PS and OS4 websites, show people do contribute in their own way. Or like X1000 blog.

Seems core developers and real programmers are fed up by trolling and actually rarely post in AW.net or amiga.org (but they do exist in MorphZone and Amigans.net to some extend).

Last edited by vox on 18-Jun-2013 at 08:30 PM.
Last edited by vox on 18-Jun-2013 at 08:24 PM.

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Comi 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 18-Jun-2013 21:23:24
#85 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2003
Posts: 660
From: Zlatibor, Serbia

@vox

Igor Majstorović - Majsta will take care about FPGA accelerators for Amiga 600, 500 and than maybe for A1200

PPC for classics is just a one more choice, and bridge to new generation.. That is whay PPC card for classics are important

Untill we don't have New gen Amiga (with current PC futures) for price of 400-800 PPc card will be good choice

So let's hope that Ultimate PPC team will continue and speed up their work

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vox 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 18-Jun-2013 21:30:26
#86 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3731
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@Comi

Quote:
PPC for classics is just a one more choice, and bridge to new generation.. That is whay PPC card for classics are important


I must agree its so true - people do forget OS4/MOS 1.x is full use of their PPC expanded Classics.

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BigD 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 18-Jun-2013 21:57:56
#87 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@Comi

Quote:
Untill we don't have New gen Amiga (with current PC futures) for price of 400-800 PPc card will be good choice


PPC for Classics was a false economy when Eyetech was formulating the AmigaOne back in 2002 that is why they went with a stand-alone machine. Things haven't changed today. If you have an old Blizzard/CyberstormPPC board then you get to try AmigaOS4.1 and then hopefully you'll see the need to upgrade to the faster and more stable version on next-gen hardware. It is simply not worth anyone's while getting a PPC board for Classics in order to run OS4.1 as an alternative to next-gen hardware. Get a Sam or the X1000 instead.

The fact I've never heard of this Ultimate PPC board pipe-dream means that it is no doubt another ACK Solutions/Troika/Boxer system that is not worth our discussion time because until it's on sale it doesn't exist!

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wawa 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 18-Jun-2013 22:00:04
#88 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@vox

Quote:
http://www.amigabounty.net/?function=viewproject&projectid=94


i appreciate majstas work, even though i dont know if im going to support it financially. however i think this bounty is all wrong. there is no clear goal or timeframe, its not very clearly worded, full of links to forums as reference, but such a page should be rather short and informative by itself. also its on in wrong place, as this is where os4 related bounties are held and as result there is obviously no interest in it.
as this is meant as open source power2poeple would be more appropriate, although hard to tell if they would accept.

also i disagree that ppc accelerators are important for the classics. they are too complicated and too expensive. os4 has already its own dedicated hardware and as it seems to be intention of its holders to keep it exclusive to that, it should be respected. i dont think it pays to build even more expensive ppc cards for amigas just to mishandle these unique hardware as practically non functional dongle for such a card. amiga users should be imho left in peace with their 68k architecture.

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Comi 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 18-Jun-2013 22:12:59
#89 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2003
Posts: 660
From: Zlatibor, Serbia

.Amiga isn't economy at all..It's a tiny computer hobby community with enthusiastic developers and hardware producers.....
What is economy in Mediator, ACA cards, RAM memory from AmigaKit, Majsta's tireless work over 2 years to bring FPGA (Vampire600)?... Volumes are to low..

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BigD 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 18-Jun-2013 22:16:54
#90 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@Comi

Comi wrote:
Quote:
.Amiga isn't economy at all..It's a tiny computer hobby community with enthusiastic developers and hardware producers.....
What is economy in Mediator, ACA cards, RAM memory from AmigaKit, Majsta's tireless work over 2 years to bring FPGA (Vampire600)?... Volumes are to low..


Yeah and there aren't many talented hardware guys left in this 'hobby'. Don't encourage the remaining few to waste their talent on making our classic machines more unstable and hot running with pointless PPC add-ons in an age where brand new PPC machines are readily available at a range of price points.

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vox 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 18-Jun-2013 22:52:31
#91 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3731
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@BigD

Quote:
PPC for Classics was a false economy when Eyetech was formulating the AmigaOne back in 2002 that is why they went with a stand-alone machine. Things haven't changed today. If you have an old Blizzard/CyberstormPPC board then you get to try AmigaOS4.1 and then hopefully you'll see the need to upgrade to the faster and more stable version on next-gen hardware. It is simply not worth anyone's while getting a PPC board for Classics in order to run OS4.1 as an alternative to next-gen hardware. Get a Sam or the X1000 instead.


While I can agree that prices of such cards are close to price of PPC full mobos, while they do leave many bottlenecks of Classics, they do make a bridge for OS 3.9 lovers willing to use OS 4.1/MOS too on same computer.

603/604 CPUs and much RAM have been a down limit to MOS and OS 4.1, but I do remember AmigaOne cards were promised with G3 and G4. I do believe Eyetech was simply not up to the task (as they purchased cheap and defective PPC board design instead of doing their own).

That would be "Ultimate PPC" of that days
http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/prototypes/amigaone1.html
http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/amiga1timelines.html

Now remains one of first Amiga Inc related promises to fail.

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number6 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 18-Jun-2013 23:15:47
#92 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@thread

Escena and classic, -not- Eyetech Amigaones, were the goal.

Rogue quote:

Quote:
We started on classic hardware, when we still thought that Escena would ever deliver anything. MAI and the Teron/AmigaOne hardware came into the picture only later in the game.


#6



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wawa 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 18-Jun-2013 23:29:37
#93 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@vox

Quote:
While I can agree that prices of such cards are close to price of PPC full mobos, while they do leave many bottlenecks of Classics, they do make a bridge for OS 3.9 lovers willing to use OS 4.1/MOS too on same computer. 603/604 CPUs and much RAM have been a down limit to MOS and OS 4.1, but I do remember AmigaOne cards were promised with G3 and G4. I do believe Eyetech was simply not up to the task (as they purchased cheap and defective PPC board design instead of doing their own). That would be "Ultimate PPC" of that days http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/prototypes/amigaone1.html http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/amiga1timelines.html Now remains one of first Amiga Inc related promises to fail.


even more idiotic hybrides only to justify usage of some ppc native system on amiga. if we (amiga users) want to use os4 or mos we can get dedicated hardware. why must we be persuaded so much?

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vox 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 18-Jun-2013 23:39:30
#94 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3731
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@wawa

Quote:
even more idiotic hybrides only to justify usage of some ppc native system on amiga. if we (amiga users) want to use os4 or mos we can get dedicated hardware. why must we be persuaded so much?


Original plan was not to left you behind, but to integrate the experience.
MOS 1.x and OS 4.0/4.1 Classics are fruits of that plan.

And please don`t tell me you really think that people who migrated to Pegs, A1s and so on become less Amigans because of such choice. As it was only choice to go forward.

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wawa 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 19-Jun-2013 0:05:34
#95 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@vox

Quote:
Original plan was not to left you behind, but to integrate the experience


if one is jumping from the cliff i prefer to be left behind. i repeat: i have seen where the hybrid-ppc way is leading very well and from the very start. i refused it all consciously. today, that i am owner of a csppc and an os4 licence that was only an experiment after many years when i had some money to waste and could allow myself to encounter what i might have left out. and i discovered that i was right all along.

Quote:
And please don`t tell me you really think that people who migrated to Pegs, A1s and so on become less Amigans because of such choice.


they are whatever they choose to call themselves. its all the same to me. i was talking about facts, not wishes. if i use the term "amiga user" i refer to a user of a computer named "amiga". the indisputable fact is that only such computers were built by commodore. period.

Quote:
As it was only choice to go forward.


time has shown it wasnt a way forward, but rather into a dead end. usually it is important to stay cautious to avoid to be lured into such situations to survive. i have been cautious.

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vox 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 19-Jun-2013 0:44:45
#96 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3731
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@wawa

Quote:
they are whatever they choose to call themselves. its all the same to me. i was talking about facts, not wishes. if i use the term "amiga user" i refer to a user of a computer named "amiga". the indisputable fact is that only such computers were built by commodore. period.


And not the user of AmigaOS (later MorphOS / AROS) which was actualy thing that made Amiga Amiga on software side? You do understand OS`s can migrate HW arhitecture and yet their users remain their users ... while computers are somehow just the wheels

Quote:
time has shown it wasnt a way forward, but rather into a dead end. usually it is important to stay cautious to avoid to be lured into such situations to survive. i have been cautious.


Its good to be cautious, but I really don`t see what was the future with 68k and CBM build custom chips. We do know CBM planned to abandon both, even AmigaOS sadly. So in some form for us its kindda good Commodore died. Twice, as all zombies.

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wawa 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 19-Jun-2013 1:07:49
#97 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@vox

Quote:
And not the user of AmigaOS (later MorphOS / AROS) which was actualy thing that made Amiga Amiga on software side? You do understand OS`s can migrate HW arhitecture and yet their users remain their users ... while computers are somehow just the wheels


i can very well refer to myself as aros user, while using aros on my amiga. but if i used aros on another hardware i would clearly have to refer to myself as aros user, even if (lets say) being "amigan" in my heart. i dont want to go deep into argument, what makes an amiga. even though my sorts are being imposed on being called "classic users" by so called "ng users" i prefer to stick to clear objective nomenclature and call bread "bread" and butter "butter". just that.

and for the matter if an os can migrate. yes it can. and the result is os4 (or morphos or aros for that matter). only amiga cant migrate, because it is an item. if there was a company behind, doesnt even matter if it was the genuine company, that would name their product "amiga", then we could talk about "amigas" apart from genuine commodore amigas. but there is not. why is this so upsetting and so hard to agree upon?

Quote:
Its good to be cautious, but I really don`t see what was the future with 68k and CBM build custom chips. We do know CBM planned to abandon both, even AmigaOS sadly. So in some form for us its kindda good Commodore died. Twice, as all zombies.


there was and there is no future, neither with ppc nor 68k. if cbm has issued another completely incompatible computer under the name "amiga" it would be an amiga. but they have not. im not interested in disputing "what, if". the history is as it is, and we cant do anything about it but accept.

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vox 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 19-Jun-2013 1:20:22
#98 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3731
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@wawa

Quote:
there was and there is no future, neither with ppc nor 68k. if cbm has issued another completely incompatible computer under the name "amiga" it would be an amiga. but they have not. im not interested in disputing "what, if". the history is as it is, and we cant do anything about it but accept.


Just on that, you remember CUSA has done so (as issued another completely incompatible computer under the name "amiga") but very few accepted that as Amiga.

While I do loved the hardware of an A500 and A1200 and experience it offered me,
in time I have learned really that its also OS that hold the flag

Amigan for me simply is person that kept some degree of loyalty - it can just be person posting here, with none of the OSs used, but that had Classic or has seen it before. More, the marrier.

In time Amiga has became anything avail that can run AmigaOS or alike, but sadly most of products were %$!$! discontinued before I could afford them due to poor performance of my countries economy back in 90s and in early 2000s. So now, I will not do the same mistake with X1000 when I have decent salary. Would love it even more if I could run AROS and MOS too and hope that will come in time too ...

So its Franko who is right in his attitude, your is very acceptable, and there must be some reason in my logic too

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wawa 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 19-Jun-2013 2:09:53
#99 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@vox

Quote:
Just on that, you remember CUSA has done so (as issued another completely incompatible computer under the name "amiga") but very few accepted that as Amiga.


only in our small pond, where everybody reserves the right to define "amiga" by himself. i dont think the rest of the world would care about our opinion, and if cusa lasted longer and were successful they product would have been accepted as "amiga". no doubt.

Quote:
Amigan for me simply is person that kept some degree of loyalty


i despise loyalties, swearing oaths and the like. its good for slaves, soldiers or mindless followers. intelligent person must be able to reconsider and change his/her mind. and especially i despise people who call others on loyalties they want to impose on them without the slightest right to do so.

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vox 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 19-Jun-2013 2:15:29
#100 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3731
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@wawa

Quote:
only in our small pond, where everybody reserves the right to define "amiga" by himself. i dont think the rest of the world would care about our opinion, and if cusa lasted longer and were successful they product would have been accepted as "amiga". no doubt.


No doubt by masses, less likely by Classic users. In other words people would buy it as cute Mac like PC dubbed "Amiga" more then because initial link back. If they did A500/A1200 case, that might change the situation, like C64x was relatively praised. However, even if they lasted longer with no pricing policy change, I doubt much success.

Quote:
i despise loyalties, swearing oaths and the like. its good for slaves, soldiers or mindless followers. intelligent person must be able to reconsider and change his/her mind. and especially i despise people who call others on loyalties they want to impose on them without the slightest right to do so.


Well loyalty in emotional sense, not as given order, must-do, and so on. Informed decision, like I am perfectly aware what I am going to buy, instead of suggested MacPro. So I swap emotional value and support to Hyperion/A-EON over highly productive and fancy product. Who knows in 5 years I might change mind again if they don`t do 4.2, OO, TW

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