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Yssing
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Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware Posted on 23-Jul-2013 12:08:48
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Joined: 24-Apr-2003 Posts: 1084
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| @WolfToTheMoon
Well those 2 years havent passed yet, besides he never made any promises, he said "I'm willing to take a bet that it won't take 2 years ;)"
That is not the same as promising it. Just to be clear! _________________
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ssolie
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Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware Posted on 23-Jul-2013 15:50:18
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Elite Member |
Joined: 10-Mar-2003 Posts: 2755
From: Alberta, Canada | | |
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| @cgutjahr Quote:
cgutjahr wrote: @ssolie Quote:
First, I never liked calling the feature "SMP"
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If that's true, why did you repeatedly refer to it as "SMP" yourself? |
Because effective communication involves understanding your audience.
_________________ ExecSG Team Lead |
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Zylesea
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Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware Posted on 24-Jul-2013 0:33:57
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Elite Member |
Joined: 16-Mar-2004 Posts: 2263
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG | | |
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| @ssolie
Quote:
.
Quote:
First, I never liked calling the feature "SMP"
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If that's true, why did you repeatedly refer to it as "SMP" yourself?
>Because effective communication involves understanding your audience.
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No. Effective communcation means the correct usage of a well defined terminology. The whole issue many folks here (me included) about that claim OS4 will get "SMP" w/o braeking compability was that *SMP* is just not applyable to AOS w/o breaking compability. ASMP of course is (and one ASMP method was for example teh PowerUp library). And while ASMP is definitely not wothless it is quite another class than SMP because existing applications will not benefit directly.Last edited by Zylesea on 24-Jul-2013 at 09:14 AM. Last edited by Zylesea on 24-Jul-2013 at 12:37 AM. Last edited by Zylesea on 24-Jul-2013 at 12:36 AM. Last edited by Zylesea on 24-Jul-2013 at 12:35 AM.
_________________ My programs: via.bckrs.de MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001) |
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agami
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Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware Posted on 24-Jul-2013 8:40:21
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Super Member |
Joined: 30-Jun-2008 Posts: 1652
From: Melbourne, Australia | | |
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| @thread
In "The Hobbyist's Guide to the AmigaOne Galaxy" it clearly states "The answer to the Amiga question of multiprocessing, 3D support, and everything is OS 4.2".
_________________ All the way, with 68k |
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Smurfen
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Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware Posted on 24-Jul-2013 9:25:25
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Regular Member |
Joined: 25-Mar-2005 Posts: 160
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Zylesea
Quote:
No. Effective communcation means the correct usage of a well defined terminology. The whole issue many folks here (me included) about that claim OS4 will get "SMP" w/o braeking compability was that *SMP* is just not applyable to AOS w/o breaking compability. ASMP of course is (and one ASMP method was for example teh PowerUp library). And while ASMP is definitely not wothless it is quite another class than SMP because existing applications will not benefit directly. |
Imho, existing m68k applications, are not really the applications I will use primarily for ever and ever, and therefore I would not mind if the new SMP/ASMP/xyzMP/whateverthenameisMP does not benefit them. If the OS utilises the new HW I will be happy!
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blizz1220
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Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware Posted on 24-Jul-2013 9:58:28
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Joined: 12-Jun-2013 Posts: 437
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Smurfen
Quote:
Imho, existing m68k applications, are not really the applications I will use primarily for ever and ever, and therefore I would not mind if the new SMP/ASMP/xyzMP/whateverthenameisMP does not benefit them. If the OS utilises the new HW I will be happy! |
It would break compatibility with existing AmigaOS 4 software ...
Ironically you could still use 68k software in an emulator which would probably run even faster then now if optimized ...
Difference between true SMP and AMP are mostly in the amount of speed that would be gained and also in the fact that if SMP was possible you wouldn't need to rewrite the existing software while using AMP you would need to rewrite existing software ... |
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Signal
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Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware Posted on 24-Jul-2013 11:10:01
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Joined: 1-Jun-2013 Posts: 664
From: USA | | |
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| @Smurfen
Quote:
Smurfen wrote: If the OS utilises the new HW I will be happy!
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DITTO! _________________ Tinkering with computers. |
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ssolie
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Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware Posted on 24-Jul-2013 16:11:41
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Elite Member |
Joined: 10-Mar-2003 Posts: 2755
From: Alberta, Canada | | |
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| @Smurfen Quote:
Imho, existing m68k applications, are not really the applications I will use primarily for ever and ever, and therefore I would not mind if the new SMP/ASMP/xyzMP/whateverthenameisMP does not benefit them. If the OS utilises the new HW I will be happy!
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That is kind of the point I was trying to make. So if we do tie 68K apps to a single core does that mean it is still SMP? More importantly, does anybody really care? (rhetorical questions)
Now, I could just call it "SMP" even though it may (but not necessarily) be delivered as a hybrid but then you always and forever will have some egghead that just must absolutely positively correct you or die of internal bleeding due to the strain caused by holding it in.
The goal is and still remains to be true SMP but, like Smurfen is pointing out, I think most people don't really care as long as the hardware is being utilized._________________ ExecSG Team Lead |
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Signal
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Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware Posted on 24-Jul-2013 16:37:42
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Cult Member |
Joined: 1-Jun-2013 Posts: 664
From: USA | | |
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| @ssolie
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I think most people don't really care as long as the hardware is being utilized. |
And not just SMP, or AMP, or BMP. The HARDWARE!
Hm,.... now I'm hungry for a BLT. _________________ Tinkering with computers. |
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cgutjahr
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Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware Posted on 24-Jul-2013 17:05:29
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Joined: 8-Mar-2003 Posts: 969
From: Unknown | | |
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| @ssolie
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The goal is and still remains to be true SMP
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So you're back to referring to SMP as SMP? For somebody who doesn't like the term, you're using it a lot.
Let me get this straight: The OS4 team is trying to implement "true" SMP. If it works out, the system will be referred to as "SMP". If not, something else will be implemented and it will be called something else. Is that correct?
Wouldn't it have been a lot easier if you had just said so, instead of making up alleged "eggheads" that force you to invent new technical terms?
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Overflow
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Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware Posted on 24-Jul-2013 17:26:42
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Super Member |
Joined: 12-Jun-2012 Posts: 1628
From: Norway | | |
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| @cgutjahr
From what ive read over the years here people love to dissect every sentance and theorycraft up and down, back and forth, no matter what you say.
Trevor seems to be tackling it with a more open approach, ignoring the noise.
Hyperion doesnt release information until they are "done".
Cant really blame them. If they spend all their time on forums to explain why the comma was in this or that position in a sentance Id wager the AOS development time would take even more time. (yes, im being somewhat facetious to make a point). Last edited by Overflow on 24-Jul-2013 at 05:32 PM. Last edited by Overflow on 24-Jul-2013 at 05:30 PM.
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NutsAboutAmiga
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Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware Posted on 24-Jul-2013 17:43:25
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Joined: 9-Jun-2004 Posts: 12817
From: Norway | | |
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| @cgutjahr
I guess what Solie is trying to say is that it's going to be HMP or Hyperion Multi Processing. Aka do whatever it takes to make it work whit AmigaOS, it might not be a text book definition of Multi Processing.
As for AMP, I don't think this approach will be taken; because it has so many limitations, and requires developers to write code specifically take advantage of second core.
The attempts to reduce the amount of forbids, is going in the direction SMP like approach.
_________________ http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/ Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS |
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wawa
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Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware Posted on 24-Jul-2013 17:44:35
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Elite Member |
Joined: 21-Jan-2008 Posts: 6259
From: Unknown | | |
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| @ssolie
Quote:
Now, I could just call it "SMP" even though it may (but not necessarily) be delivered as a hybrid |
is this a hint at that you may end up either wit a "hybrid smp" (but not necessarily) but rather there is a possibility to have two independent systems, one to run legacy apps for single core and the second being smp for multiple cores, yet the applications for that need to be developed first (or rather ported)? |
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vox
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Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware Posted on 24-Jul-2013 17:51:28
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Joined: 12-Jun-2005 Posts: 3735
From: Belgrade, Serbia | | |
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| @wawa
I`m not a tech boy, but as far as I do understand, SMP to be trully used, needs "multithreaded" apps, so its long to go.
Lets see what will OS 4.2 offer
Its too early to speculate, and any progress is better to none.
Idea that SMP is impossible, as far as I have seen comes from MorphOS camp and even those guys are well versed in old AmigaOS 3, they are not the ones that do develop AmigaOS 4, as well as it seems they have abandoned Qbox approach (promised SMP for MorphOS) even they do have a target platform (G5 Mac).
We`ll see how OS 4.2 will do, but it really could be a major milestone in AmigaOS development - Gallium, SMP, beyond 2GB barrier and maybe few little candies and I will be willing to say it deserves way higher OS version number _________________ Future Acube and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionals. Learn it harder way! |
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blizz1220
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Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware Posted on 24-Jul-2013 18:10:18
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Regular Member |
Joined: 12-Jun-2013 Posts: 437
From: Unknown | | |
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| @vox
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Idea that SMP is impossible, as far as I have seen comes from MorphOS camp and even those guys are well versed in old AmigaOS 3, they are not the ones that do develop AmigaOS 4, |
The idea that SMP is indeed absolutely impossible comes from anyone who knows what he's talking about not from Morphos or Aros camp ...
Just stop calling it SMP ...Last edited by blizz1220 on 24-Jul-2013 at 06:10 PM. Last edited by blizz1220 on 24-Jul-2013 at 06:10 PM.
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vox
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Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware Posted on 24-Jul-2013 18:25:55
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Joined: 12-Jun-2005 Posts: 3735
From: Belgrade, Serbia | | |
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| @blizz1220
Quote:
The idea that SMP is indeed absolutely impossible comes from anyone who knows what he's talking about not from Morphos or Aros camp ... Just stop calling it SMP ... |
Any kind of dual core support. I don`t see it in AROS plans, or MorphOS plans. So if Hyperion does any kind of implementation, will it become feature advanced than those? Well, its just one feature, but set by a path of hardware (X1000 and beyond).
Now, come back and think. If it was impossible why A-EONs plan would be to have dual core and more machines only, when it would be cheaper to stay with any single core PPC CPU?Last edited by vox on 24-Jul-2013 at 06:26 PM.
_________________ Future Acube and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionals. Learn it harder way! |
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wawa
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Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware Posted on 24-Jul-2013 18:35:54
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Elite Member |
Joined: 21-Jan-2008 Posts: 6259
From: Unknown | | |
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| @vox
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Could you do some version that can be fast and hosted inside MorphOS/AmigaOS 4 68k emulation? |
what aros plans were you looking into actually? btw would not be surprised if smp was perfectly possible on aros, aros has already some implemented infrastructure for that afaik, but then they dont need to care about backwards compatibility anyway except for 68k. so it may not be fair to compare with os4.
Quote:
I`m not a tech boy, but as far as I do understand, SMP to be trully used, needs "multithreaded" apps, so its long to go |
no, you will have already an advantage running multiple single threaded apps in multitasking. i dont know if and how the os4 implementation will deal with this. to me what ssolie says sounds like you may have to reboot the system to switch between legacy and multicore mode.Last edited by wawa on 24-Jul-2013 at 06:40 PM. Last edited by wawa on 24-Jul-2013 at 06:39 PM. Last edited by wawa on 24-Jul-2013 at 06:39 PM.
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Signal
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Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware Posted on 24-Jul-2013 18:40:14
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Cult Member |
Joined: 1-Jun-2013 Posts: 664
From: USA | | |
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| Wait... I got one!
CMP. Cooperative Multi Processing.
A little of this, a little that, put it in a pot and cook it till it's hot. Pour it in a pan, fast as you can. Does not matter what it is, makes no difference what it's not. Get it going, so we can have fun. Now back to work, and "Gitter done".
_________________ Tinkering with computers. |
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blizz1220
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Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware Posted on 24-Jul-2013 18:47:34
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Regular Member |
Joined: 12-Jun-2013 Posts: 437
From: Unknown | | |
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| @vox
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Now, come back and think. If it was impossible why A-EONs plan would be to have dual core and more machines only, when it would be cheaper to stay with any single core PPC CPU? |
Because single core PPC that could be used in AmigaOne x1000 simply doesn't exist , it would be another Sam460 then ... Maybe just a little faster ...
It was dual core or nothing and Linux can use it ...
If you all listened to those people that knew what they were talking about they would also tell you there is no need for SMP either ...
It's fast enough on a single core for the needs of a hobby market ...Last edited by blizz1220 on 24-Jul-2013 at 06:52 PM.
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Boot_WB
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Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware Posted on 24-Jul-2013 19:01:46
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Super Member |
Joined: 14-Feb-2006 Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK | | |
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| @vox
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Now, come back and think. If it was impossible why A-EONs plan would be to have dual core and more machines only, when it would be cheaper to stay with any single core PPC CPU? |
You're seem to be inferring Hyperions's future plans from A-Eon's past and current actions.
A-Eon has successfully created and sold a dual-core AmigaOne system, and appears to be in the process of creating another.
It's now up to Hyperion to make AmigaOS multicore to fully utilise it*.
* On the back of "More than 200, less than 2000" OEM AmigaOS 4.1 sales (which is why a low-cost 'cashcow' machine bringing higher unit sales of AmigaOS4.1 would seem a more logical choice to pay for/accelerate such development, even if no money was made on the hardware itself)._________________ Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions. opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet. |
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