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PosterThread
Coder 
Re: JXfileSystem error
Posted on 13-Aug-2013 17:59:33
#61 ]
Team Member
Joined: 15-May-2003
Posts: 4523
From: The Netherlands

@petrol

I could not locate it.

It only happens when I run OWB but I am about to format the partition and move back what I can copy which should be all except OWB.

Coder

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petrol 
Re: JXfileSystem error
Posted on 13-Aug-2013 18:24:46
#62 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 25-Jun-2004
Posts: 402
From: France

Andy was right! this is the ".recycled" drawer that I spoke about. It is at the root of the JXFS partition where OWB is installed.

Regards,
Petrol.

Last edited by petrol on 13-Aug-2013 at 06:25 PM.

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Coder 
Re: JXfileSystem error
Posted on 13-Aug-2013 18:26:56
#63 ]
Team Member
Joined: 15-May-2003
Posts: 4523
From: The Netherlands

@petrol

I just did the format. Changed it to SFS\02 which will have the same issue of no recovery/fixing tools like the JXF one. SFS\00 does but not sure if I should use that.

Coder

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tonyw 
Re: JXfileSystem error
Posted on 14-Aug-2013 0:05:15
#64 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3158
From: Sydney (of course)

@thread:

In case there are people reading this who may feel spooked by the descriptions of "JXFS faults", may I say a few words in its favour?

As an OS4 developer/betatester, I have used JXFS since it was first released to betatesters years ago (at the time I was only a betatester). It had a few minor bugs that were ironed out before it was released to the public.

In the years since, JXFS has been a solid, reliable filesystem and I have no hesitation in using it on most of my partitions (I have some 50+ partitions on three HDs in my A1-XE). The only place that I can't use JXFS is for system partitions (because you can't boot from it).

Because of its age (it is not a new design, more like a new implementation), it has some design restrictions. These issues may be resolved or may be too hard. However, it remains solid and secure (it does not crash or corrupt data and deleted files are always retrievable from the .recycled directory). What more could you want?

People may claim a need for "recovery tools", but I can't see a need for them in the case of a journalling filesystem. In all cases of metadata corruption, it fixes itself on bootup. I have seen messages from time to time warning me of corrective action being taken and they have always been successful. These "problems" have always been after a power failure or a big crash.

Yes, I have suffered "wrong block IDs" and "checksum errors" on JXFS partitions. No, I have no way to fix them without reformatting the partition. It has happened to me on several partitions over the years and in every case the corruption has recurred in that same partiton soon afterward. In short, it has been caused by a disk surface error. These days I make a habit of marking those partitions as unusable and I have no further problems.

I have never seen a correlation between partition failure and particular usage.

In short, I recommend JXFS to anyone for anything other than bootable system partitions. I even use it for the system partition on the X-1000.


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Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

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redfox 
Re: JXfileSystem error
Posted on 14-Aug-2013 2:46:03
#65 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1678
From: Canada

@thread

I have been using JXFS for several years with great success.

I have a single hard disk drive with 5 partitions.
My SYS: partition is formatted as SFS\00
3 partitions formatted as JXFS\04 ... 35GB, 95GB, 95GB
1 partition formatted as FFS2 (dos\07) which I use to backup some files.

Most of my applications programs, including 6 web browers are located on my 35GB JXFS partition.

I had some problems with my Western Digital hard drive. They disappeared after I changed my UBoot settings to autodiscovery mode (defaults to best PIO mode after detecting drives).

---
redfox
MicroA1-C with 750GX CPU and 256MB RAM
Western Digital hard drive
LiteOn Combo drive
AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6

Last edited by redfox on 14-Aug-2013 at 02:47 AM.

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vox 
Re: JXfileSystem error
Posted on 14-Aug-2013 6:14:31
#66 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@RobertJDohnert

Quote:
.. deleted by Moderator... No trolling!


Yes, there is no partition / files recovery tool if drive goes unreadable.
Sadly. But such crashes happen rarely. Put to official feature request forum.

As told before, complete rewritte of File System is planned.

Ah, those OSs with heritage from 90s trying to advance ...

P.S. Netbook was supposed to be Lime Book, but its awfully limited
anyway, turned to be too expensive in smaller batches and is shadowly cancelled,
as it was never officially announced (apart from Amiwest).

X1000 is of limited availibaility, and if you wish to do PPC port for it,
you should really contact A-EON. In future there will be very expensive
but more availiable X2000, so X1000 PPC support would be good basis
for future.

Good luck!

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vox 
Re: JXfileSystem error
Posted on 14-Aug-2013 6:16:23
#67 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@damocles

Quote:
@number6 Quote: What recovery tools? Ouch! What is Hyperion doing with the money they get from sales?


If not spending on lifestyle of people about 45 years old, lucky guess
is reinvesting in its development. Otherwise I don`t see how OS
could get updated since 2004 (or 2006, or whenever Amiga Inc stopped funding it)

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Nibunnoichi 
Re: JXfileSystem error
Posted on 14-Aug-2013 10:08:03
#68 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Nov-2004
Posts: 950
From: Roma + Lecco, Italia

I'm using JXFS on my work partition since the beginning and i've never had any issue... it's quite rare that a journalling fs gets corrupted but, on the other hand, you can't be sure that a recovery tool works 100% all the time.

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Owner of various Commodore and a SAM440ep\OS4.1FE
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Rob 
Re: JXfileSystem error
Posted on 14-Aug-2013 11:11:32
#69 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5806
From: S.Wales

@Nibunnoichi

No issues here either.

I used to have regular probs with my old 3.9 A1200 set up. Was very frustrating back in those days. Specially when I got in late at night just wanting to check my email and having to wait half an hour or more just to get the thing to boot.

Last edited by Rob on 14-Aug-2013 at 11:13 AM.

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delshay 
Re: JXfileSystem error
Posted on 14-Aug-2013 11:11:38
#70 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Sep-2008
Posts: 447
From: Unknown

I am one user that have not yet moved to any file system on OS4.1, I just don't have time to change it, so here I am still using PFS3 with FastATA/CF card never had any problems to date.

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wawa 
Re: JXfileSystem error
Posted on 14-Aug-2013 12:02:35
#71 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6160
From: Unknown

@tonyw

Quote:
Yes, I have suffered "wrong block IDs" and "checksum errors" on JXFS partitions. No, I have no way to fix them without reformatting the partition. It has happened to me on several partitions over the years and in every case the corruption has recurred in that same partiton soon afterward. In short, it has been caused by a disk surface error. These days I make a habit of marking those partitions as unusable and I have no further problems.


on pfs3 you just run your service tool over it and all gets fixed in place.

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vox 
Re: JXfileSystem error
Posted on 14-Aug-2013 12:05:44
#72 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@delshay


Quote:
I am one user that have not yet moved to any file system on OS4.1, I just don't have time to change it, so here I am still using PFS3 with FastATA/CF card never had any problems to date.


68k PFS3 works perfectly?

At AngelFire is hosted 3.3 with tools
http://www.angelfire.com/amiga/greed/pfs3.html

Aminet has 5.3 (2011)
http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/PFS3_53

Latest archive is called PFS3 All-In-One 2012
http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/pfs3aio

Which one would you recommend?

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Hypex 
Re: JXfileSystem error
Posted on 14-Aug-2013 16:03:49
#73 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9541
From: Greensborough, Australia

@number6

Quote:
I'm still curious for the sake of JXFS, whether using it merely as storage medium (which eliyahu seemingly does) is a safe bet, or is he just luck


Well I use my volume to store files with nor trouble. It doesn't get heavy use. But I don't want to be afraid to write to it.

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Hypex 
Re: JXfileSystem error
Posted on 14-Aug-2013 16:11:17
#74 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9541
From: Greensborough, Australia

@wawa

Quote:
would that be really necessary or just an unneeded micro optimisation?


I think it is. An OS4 filesystemn should be native. Running an emulated filesystem on your trusted data is a bad idea.

Also, the code should be tweaked so it is aware of 64-bit APIs. And made sure it does things cleanly. Leaving it as 68K could let it do things as if it was on a real Amiga that it shouldn't be. Well possibly.

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Deniil715 
Re: JXfileSystem error
Posted on 14-Aug-2013 16:12:08
#75 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4178
From: Sweden

@Severin

Quote:
There's nothing you can do about this so kiss your data goodbye and reformat as SFS...


I sincerely doubt you can't access the data even with this error. Some directory may disappear but I would really assume most data can be retrieved.

I have seen similar errors on both PFS, SFS and JXFS over the years but never had to format any partition. The problem just goes away after a reboot.

@elwood

Quote:
We have a reliable filesystem with a repair tool available. It's FFS2


You didn't put "reliable" and "FFS" in the same sentence, did you??!
FFS is the most fragile and most easily destroyable FS there is. It *requires* a repair tool because it breaks so often. Not to mention dead slow.

I switched to AFS sometime in the 90's and later PFS and then SFS and now JXFS and I have never needed to format any of those partitions ever over the years.

What can destroy these journalling file systems are corruption of the cache in RAM by bad programs (we still don't have memory protection), and a physical disk failure. Still in most cases (all of my cases) recoverable errors.

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Hypex 
Re: JXfileSystem error
Posted on 14-Aug-2013 16:24:10
#76 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9541
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Deniil715

Quote:
FFS is the most fragile and most easily destroyable FS there is.


Aren't you forgetting something? FFS rose to be one of the best filesystems out there when FAT was discovered to be one of the worse! Not an Amiga filesystem but I have seen a FAT drive destroyed beyond all recognition. Perhaps CrossDUD did it. But a FAT drive can be wrecked by just writing to a few blocks over a couple of seconds.

I couldn't beleive it was destroyed so easily. No sign of files or file headers or anything. Data corrupted in an instant. Now I have never seen FFS corrupted so much that is was beyond all repair and salvage!

I trust FFS over FAT any day!

Last edited by Hypex on 14-Aug-2013 at 04:25 PM.

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Raffaele 
Re: JXfileSystem error
Posted on 14-Aug-2013 18:05:13
#77 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2005
Posts: 1852
From: Naples, Italy

@all

At all suggesting porting into Amiga alien filesystems like ReiserFS, Ext3 or Ext4 or even Mac XFS...

Why instead don't you ask Leif Salomonsson author of ICE-FS for MorphOS to make an AmigaOS version of it?

http://blubbedev.net/icefs/

Since now AmigaOS is available for Pegasos machines too, and MorphOS will run on SAM 440 and SAM 460 Amiga machines, in this climate of peace I think that exchanging filesystems between the two Amiga-like Operating Systems could be seen as a good will event...

Last edited by Raffaele on 14-Aug-2013 at 06:17 PM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 14-Aug-2013 at 06:14 PM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 14-Aug-2013 at 06:13 PM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 14-Aug-2013 at 06:12 PM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 14-Aug-2013 at 06:11 PM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 14-Aug-2013 at 06:08 PM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 14-Aug-2013 at 06:05 PM.

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itix 
Re: JXfileSystem error
Posted on 14-Aug-2013 18:13:13
#78 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Hypex

There is no any reason why 68k code should be trusted less than ppc code. In fact 68k code can sometimes run better because it can be optimized at run time for your CPU architecture.

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Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

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Spirantho 
Re: JXfileSystem error
Posted on 14-Aug-2013 18:28:17
#79 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Jun-2004
Posts: 1044
From: Aberystwyth, Wales

I have to say I've been using JXFS and I don't think I've ever had any problems that I can think of....


... that said, though, having an "official" file system which nobody is maintaining is a really bad idea. If you're not careful, you'll find something needs changing and nobody's got the source. All of a sudden you're stuck without any good filesystem.

If I were Hyperion I'd get the source ASAP and give it to someone as a maintainer. They don't need to do anything with it, but someone needs to have the source and be able to make bug fixes as necessary. For instance, there are bugs not setting the executable bit, I believe - that sort of thing.

Either way, as the OS advances, we'll need to keep the filesystem up-to-date with it. And there should definitely be a recovery tool - on a professional OS you can't have people needing to reformat their partitions when the filesystem can't clear up an error, even if it is caused by a hardware fault.

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sundown 
Re: JXfileSystem error
Posted on 14-Aug-2013 21:17:16
#80 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5112
From: Right here...

@delshay

Quote:
I am one user that have not yet moved to any file system on OS4.1, I just don't have time to change it, so here I am still using PFS3 with FastATA/CF card never had any problems to date.

I'm guessing you're using os4 on a classic with a ppc card?

You can't just install PFS3 to the RDB on the NG system, you need a kickstart lib that supports it. Some beta testers have tried it all the same, but the partition becomes corrupt in a short period of time on a PPC system.

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